Gardening 2007

I just banged in very pleasant 3 or 4 hours getting the vegetable beds weeded and dug through ready to get some serious veg growing going for the year. Looks like winter is never going to actually arrive, so I intend to try and get a real head start this year. Last year, we started really quite late, but still got an abundance of vegetables throughout the summer and into early autumn. We did not go for any later crops, but could have so easily got a harvest of spuds, cabbage family vegetables, parsnips, carrots, turnips and stuff, that I am genuinely quite pissed off we did not replant.

I know how to cook vegetables, I know it well, but I am really new to the growing lark. I've got a couple of seed tray things arriving soon from ebay, and am going to start off about 100 seedlings or so in the apartment this weekend. I've got a load of potatoes sprouting away in egg boxes, and am really champing at the bit to get planting. I know it is still a bit cold at times, but I'm thinking about putting potatoes into the ground outside on saturday, and I reckon they'll grow fine, and give me a really early harvest.

I'Ve got a few seeds about, and some more on order. I dunno what grows well here really, but without a little polytunnel of some sort, I am not bothering to do fruits like tomatoes, peppers or aubergines. Maybe I should? Dunno.

This is my current rough plan, based alot around what I had in each bed last year, rotating plant groups.

Bed 1 a - Celery & Leeks
Bed 1 b - Potatoes

Bed 2 - Potatoes, and Brussel sprouts

Bed 3 a - Carrots and sage (apparently confuses some bugs), edged with spring onions
Bed 3 b - Parsnips and chives (same concept of confusing bugs), edged with spring onions

Bed 4 a - Courgettes
Bed 4 b - The killer mix of sweetcorn, peas and pumpkins. You plant all 3 at once. The corn grows up, the peas creep up using the corn as a support, and the pumpkin leaves spread about at floor level, arresting weed growth. Sounds super awesome.

Bed 5 a - Baby salad leaves, chervil and coriander all grown together like a delicious lawn.
Bed 5 b - Bush beans & radishes. Maybe a couple of cucumber plants.

Bed 6 - Cabbages, kohlrabi, Kale, Cauliflower

I've alos got TONS more space for more beds if I can be bothered to dig them, space for pots, space for pretty much anything. I eat absolutely huge amounts of potato, so reckon I'll probably grow loads in some big buckets as well as on the beds, and we have a load of sheets of glass that could hopefully become a greenhouse like structure. That'd be rather ultimate, and would mean tomatoes and peppers, which we eat loads of, so would be very thrifty too.

Any tips on gardening, what grows well in Germany, decent seeds or whatever, are greatly appreciated.

When is the hydroponics kit arriving from ebay

You can't grow stuff here like you can elsewhere.

Start with radishes, spring onions and sweetpeas. Now is the time for those. Everything else will have to be started inside or in a greenhouse.
Don't be put off if you have to start from fresh seeds in a month as the early bird gets the worm so to speak.

Do not try to plant things now that need a full day of sunlight. For those things, you will have to wait until April at the earliest. Relax and enjoy the sun for tomorrow it could snow two feet.

Dude, that unneeded speculation and insuation has totally put a bad light on my nice happy "lets all grow vegeatables and be self sufficient hippes" thread. Fucker.

All you need now is Felicity Kendall get a hair cut and don the wellies

Thanks for the nudge don, I'll start my cilantro this evening -- goes pretty well on the balcony as long as I replant every two weeks as it bolts so quick.

Good for you and your green thumb.

I live in the city and only have a small balcony. No gardening (shrubs or veggies) here!!!

That will be a serious patch. Stagger the planting of things like salad leaves otherwise you will get them all at once and they will bolt before you use them. Otherwise, what about spinach. Seriously good when you get it from your own garden and there is a variety which keeps on sprouting new leaves, sort of "everlasting" spinach. Plus, when you ultimately pick the corn, cook it within 15 minutes of picking it, before the sugars and starches start to kick in, and the taste is wonderful.

You shouldn't need a greenhouse for the tomatoes if you start them out in little planter boxes in the house. Transfer them end of April/beginning of May to a very sunny south/southwest corner of the garden with plenty of room around them and support sticks for them to climb. They can be grown on balconies as well, providing you get enough sunshine. Don't forget to trim the non-bearing branches, they only waste space and fertilizer.

Just planted some Jerusalem artichokes for the first time, will let you know how they get on.

When do you start the tomatoes in the house? I have always wanted to do this, but I don't know when and also, you have to 'harden them off' whatever that means, before you plant them outside. I have no luck with tomatoes the last few years.

We've found a secluded suntrap for growing tomatoes & peppers in pots now. We've grown peppers and chillis on the balcony before pretty succesfully, so its worth a go. There are a load of little vegetable gardens behind my house, and the only succesful tomatoes I'Ve really seen there are grown under cover. Some of the cherry tomato breeds seem to have been hybrided to grow well outside, but alot I see just don't go brilliantly well.

Anyway, seeds arrived today, got some seeding trays that'll hold 200 plants, so that should be helpful, and of the seeds I got, I have alot of early varieties that apparently I can pretty much plant now.

Finished weeding and digging today, and it looks great - the work we put in last year sieving 2 or 3 foot of the topsoil,mixing horseshit in and stuff has really server us well. The soils was dead easy to turn through, and it looks like a pretty fine year of almost free, fresh, home grown produce.

Another development today - I found some rabbit shit in the garden. Never seen it before, but the local area where my garden is has been developed a bit, and changed somewhat, so maybe thats changed where the animals are looking for food. No chance of getting nicked for catching rabbits in my own bloody garden, and no chance of snagging small dogs or cats, so rabbit traps will soon be deployed...

Reminds me of the place I last lived in in the UK (Cheshire). My parents had a super
veg garden. Excellent leeks in Winter, spuds & onions the size of footballs.

We also had rabbits. They suffered from lead-poisoning. High-velocity lead you understand.

I was thinking of doing a herb garden on my balcony and maybe a few tomato plants, my worry is, I have a south balcony, and every plant I ever bring home dries up with the intense sun we get during the day (yes surprising isn't it, but that sun is very intense in the summer). And yes, I do water them.

any tips on good balcony herbs for full sunlight?

try growing a satalite dish

I was always seriously slip-shod about it, in March I planted about 3x4 seeds per hole in regular sized flower pots (capacity 1 liter) and generally got 3-4 plants per pot. They stayed on a bright but not sunny window sill until the end of April and on German Labor Day (1 May) I transplanted them into large pots (capacity at least 5 liters) about 15cm apart with climbing sticks and some fertilizer.
@ Carm: Look at how the sunshine moves on your balcony. Put the herbs where they get morning/noon sun and afternoon shade; the tomatoes can stay in the sunny corner. Most important: Water them in the morning or after sundown but never when the sun is burning down on them. On my full-south balcony I had great success with basil, thyme, oregano and rosemary, not so much with chives.

because of the position of my balcony, I get sunlight til early evening, so I need very sun hardy herbs.

Mediterranean, then. Rosemary, thyme, oregano. Basil is too delicate.
Idea: Let's meet up at Dehner at Viktualienmarkt on the first warm weekend and go seed-shopping and to the Biergarten afterwards.

you got it babe!
I have decided to get the proper balcony boxes this year with the stones and earth... but I don't want to hijack Don's thread with pretty flower stuff too!

My balcony is south facing. Rosemary, thyme, parsley, sage all grow well, basil not so much. Chilli peppers love it too.

Don, dit it all up again! Don't start gardening till Kalte Sophie! Last year I bought some Gernaiums in Penny. Frost almost finished them off as I planted the out too early.

nope, not digging it all up again, I'm gonna risk it. I reckon the chances of a serious frost are well low now. Sowed a load of parsnips and 3 types of carrot on saturday, and filled a 100 units seed tray with other stuff too, ready to plant out in a few weeks.

Don.

You aware of the crop rotation system where you grow say beans to fix nitrogen in the soil then grow root crops after?

Just been reading it in my RHS course. Interesting stuff.

So, as I was passing by my neighbor's house this morning, I was thinking about my garden and fertilizer (my neighbor has goats). Do you think goat crap can be used as fertilizer? Obviously, cow crap can (that would come from the other neighbor from the farm across the street).

Hmmm,,,,,I'm thinking big, juicy, fat, red, plump tomatoes this summer...
What do you think?

I used goat crap and sheep crap last year. It was a bit hard. I had to make a gross soupy mess out of it by osaking it in water, and squishing it with a big stick.
As to crop rotation, well, I let my computer geek side out of its box for a while, and whacked together a spreadsheet of all manner of info, and crop rotations all part and parcel of that. Gotta balance it with neighbouring vegetables too, so you don't get any combinations which don't grow well together. All very interesting stuff.

The gardens of the uni in Freising are always worth having a look at
http://www.fh-weihenstephan.de/fgw/lehrgaerten/index.html
they open in april, free entrance, and they've got lots of information and ideas for gardening, also great ideas for gardening on the balcony (not only flowers, veggies and herbs, too)

That is true - I actually have a friend (who I don't see much) who actually works there...I should ask her about the sheep shit.

Kitkat,

There's mountains of sheep shit lying all over my garden. Neighbour keeps seven of them in a field next door. I troubled him in autumn for about 50.60 barrowloads of the stuff.

I also have two cubic metres of compost about one and a half years old. Started raking leaves together the first day we got here 18 months ago with daughter.

Scrounged horse poo from a stables very near to us too last summer. All went on the roses.

I have to double dig my veg beds Sunday. Priority tomorrow is to chainsaw a huge pile of floorboards given to me for the tile stove by kind neighbour.

Companion planting is interesting. RHS course says never plant potatoes and onions together. Will check out why.

Few weeks ago on "Grow your own vegetables" they mentioned the Three Sisters method fo growing. Any interest and I'll post up my links.

3 Sisters method? Way ahead of you homeboy, its been my plan sice day 1

I have bought for around 2.50 Euros organic tomato plants that were about 1 foot and had absolutely no problem with bumper crops each year. The trick I found is to make sure that you check the acidity of the soil and add bat guano or whatever as needed to keep it in range. Tomatoes are tempremental in that way...but there is NOTHING like a freshly picked tomato. It is a close to a food orgasm as you are gonna get!

I also encourage the use of heirloom/traditional seeds, which are somewhat more expensive, but have not been fucked with by the likes of Monsanto Corporation and the GM (who by the way will be ruling the world when it completes it takeover of the vast majority of seeds and leaves only plants that do not seed so that it has farmers and the populations by the balls...see you don't need guns...just seeds)

You're brave, Jeremy, getting your chainsaw out on a Sunday... I daren't hang my washing out on a Sunday in case the mother-in-law catches me!

Well Don you old hippy! I shall put up the links I found about this fascinating system of gardening when I am sobererer.

Today I bought a hedge. Inlaws bought me a 100 Euro gutschein for my 30th and we blew it on a hedge. Most people get lashed on their 40th. I buy hedges.

Its a Buchehecke and it will lie at the edge of my new veg bed. Bought it in Pflanzenkölle today witht eh gutschein. I also bought sweetcorn and pumpkin to try this 3 sisters thing.

no tiger dont worry Saturday today was suposed to be the chainsaw day but the rain sent us to Kölle. Not so impressed witht eh Unterhaching shop. Allach was better when we lived in the centre. Will try Dehner in Sauerlach next time. Kölle was too full and too big.

and as the typing starts to suffer we sign off this thread. Mods bitte edit it.

Well, we have started off the seeds for our vegetable plots and things are progressing nicely. Don't move into the house until the 20th so will be planted a little late.

We managed to find some 2 year old Pinot Gris vines of which we will put a double row along the back of the garden, which has some sort of creek or something so should be perfect for growing.

Hmm, that works huh? We have two or three riding stables on our street. In fact, someone left a nice little deposit on the grasse in front of our house on Saturday. I may have to go out there and scoop it up and put it on the roses. Do you have to mix it with something?

*off to Google 'animal shit as fertilizer' or alternatively 'organic fertilizer'

Well opinions differ as to whether it should be well rotted or not but my parents say you can slop it straight on as my grandfather used to do.

btw I have become a member of Kitchen Gardeners International. Recomend it.

Well, loads of my seedlings died last week, because I have some courgette seedlings in the same tray, which guzzled up the entire water reservoir, and it was damned hot in the sun on my balcony to boot. They were only cabbages and kale that died, so cheap seeds, but still. Bit gutted.
Scaled back a few gardening plans for this year too. Won't have as much time as we need, but still doing a fair few bits and bobs.

don't go using fresh dung as fertilizer, it's far too strong and will suck the water out of your plants rather than feed them. reverse osmosis thing going on. so if you have access to loads of poo, you'll need to rot it down with hay or something for around 6 months. never done it myself but i'm sure google can help.

crikey, haven't posted on here for months, so will now slink back off into fifecestershire here in scotland. byeee.

It's a couple of months on, how's everyone's gardening going?

I'm after some decorative plants that'll grow by my frontdoor - it's to the side of the house and so in shade for most of the day (early morning it gets direct light) - any ideas as to what might grow well down there?

Slowly and thirstily. Hopefully this rain will help.

Our jerusalem artichokes are in danger of taking over the balcony, on the other hand I successfully killed off some carrots.

Back to the potting shed...

I transferred my tomatoes and morning glories from their little growing pots to the soil on Sunday. I also saw that my radishes were co-joined like Siamese tiwns and separated them, not sure if they survived. The sunflowers are thriving after the same operation, no word yet from the green peppers, but they got covered by old soil by accident and I have forgiven Scogs for it. They can always be replanted.
Right now I am worried about my herb garden, I will be planting it this weekend and need an effective barrier against birds, mice, cats, moles and 7-yr-olds retrieving the birdie while playing badminton. Any suggestions?

Well mine is now sorted out. Got a bed with tomatoes, broccoli, peas, radish, onion aubergines, leek and cauliflowr coming on. Bugger to double dig it too - took about 3 weeks with other obligations around.

Recently finished a second bed for my 3 sisters garden. Sweetcorn in the middle of a mound with beans to climb it and shade coming from pumkin at the bottom.

All surrounded with a "Schneckengitter" which I nailed around both beds bloodying my hands in the process.

Blood shed and back buggered but all going okay apart from a few secret slugs hiding in the beds...

Also we did a wild flower meadow using two tonnes of soil from the recycling centre, but thats another story. And, four hanging baskets and geraniums on the balcony. Addd to that two more rainwater butts we call pisspots to harvest the rainwater so yes we have been bvusy. Barely any time for my RHS Horticulture cpurse...

Sara, perhaps something like this with extra netting?

@ Jimbo - we have various shady patches in the garden so I bunged a few begonias in there (bought as already fairly advanced plants, so cheated a bit) and they did fine. Available in lots of different varieties, keep blooming all summer with very little attention apart from lots of water They need loads and loads of water when it's hot though, so when you pot them try mixing Seramis or something (clay pellets) in with the soil to retain water for the heatwave that is doubtless coming up *cough* (Or stick an inverted bottle of water in the pot.)

We have loads of green in our garden but not many flowers yet - looks like seeds planted last year and given up for lost are coming up this year. Or are they? By the time I recognise whether they're weeds or not they'll have grown to triffid size. None of my cheapo tomato seeds have come up but I have nasturtiums and stocks ready to plant out and some chrysanths to prick out (fnarr). Also some maize (Ziermais) with fancy-looking mad coloured cobs according to the picture on the packet. Lots of beans (Feuerbohnen), look good, grow like mad, easy to look after and you can eat them. Bastard slugs chomped through one whole stem of the sweetheart plant so I'll try the eggshell trick and brood about slug nuking devices (also sharpen scissors, MWAHAHAHAHA). The sorrel is going apeshit, hooray for interesting salads. Clematis and honeysuckle are coming out. Unfortunately we live next door to Mr and Mrs Perfekt-Garten but I convince myself I have more fun than they do because of the element of surprise in my garden.

Thanks Crusoe - had been looking at either begonias or just some fern type jobs to stick down there, but prefer begonias for the summer at least as I'd like to brighten the area up a bit - thanks for the tip about the watering too.

Fuchsias (eg. cheapo Aldi special offers) do OK in shade too BTW, with a bit of fertiliser on them once in a while.

Only good in pots or hanging baskets. Absolutely shite in flower beds.

I got the horse poo dug in at the weekend and tried my best to turn the worst soil I have ever seen into something that may work. All of the seedling are now in and we shall just sit back and hope for the best. Chances are that I will remove a 3 foot layer of "soil" (it is actually more like clay) in the Autumn, making a french drainage system and filling the garden up with better quality soil. This clay crap I currently have everywhere is not going to work in the long run and it is actually the worst soil that I, or anyone else who has come to look at it for that matter, have ever experienced

Looks good, honey. Is the rabbit included?
@ crusoe: Don't give up on the tomatoes, mine took for-frigging-ever to sprout. Or buy pre-grown ones and transplant them.

Crawlie you are in California right? Isnt the land there pretty hard pan desert type stuff?

If so try what a mate of mine did in Saudi. He blagged loads of grass cuttings by the bagful from the University lawncutting operation all done by Bangladeshis, watered it for weeks till it started to rot down a bit then put compost on top and grew amazing stuff. He had a desert garden which inspired me to have a go in my apartment when I lived there.

@ Crawlie - sure, fuchsias are only good for pots. I was thinking of front doors rather than flowerbeds (tall pots next to door/hanging pots at door) and sort of drifted away from the flowerbed idea.
@ sarabyrd - thanks for the moral support! I certainly will be buying tomato plants, can't be arsed waiting around for the things to sprout when everything else in the garden has gone into overdrive. I mean, who the hell do they think they are, anyway?