German Holocaust denier jailed for five years

Story from BBC News: Jail for German Holocaust denier

Not that I agree with the guy anything but these laws that make it a crime to deny something don't sit well with me. Surely its better to just ignore these people and teach something better than what they offer.

Ridiculus law that needs overturning. Freedom of speech has my vote every time.

This is just silly, no one has ever denied the Holocaust. The deniers do not exist.

There are some people I don't care for. I don't care if they exist or not, and this guy is surely one of them.

Didn't the president of Iran recently claim it didn't happen?

These are not the Holocausts you're looking for.

But I thought my father was a navigator on a spice freighter?

HA HA! I just figured that out...good one obiwan

I do not agree with revisionist and holocaust deniers, but I really disagree with putting stamps on other's freedoms, just because it does not coincide with my own personal views. That is real fascism

I think it's a good thing that Germany makes holocaust denial (among other things) illegal. I'd like to see such laws extended to the entire EU - as i believe the German presidency is currently attempting (probably unsuccessfully) to do.

I'd like to see this taken further towards a more general ban on 'promoting racism' or something to that effect. This infringes freedom of speech to a certain extent, but I think that's a price worth paying.

What I've never understood, however, is WHY holocaust deniers do it. If they are in favour of persecuting/exterminating the Jews then why deny that their Nazi heroes made a significant effort towards it? Can anyone explain?

this is like the people in the U.S. who deny that the moon-landing ever happened. i mean seriously, why?

Guys like Zundel and Irving aren't holocaust deniers per se, their approach focuses more on questioning who knew what was going on and on the plausibility of the six million figure...

Even the worst anti-semites rarely celebrate the Holocaust in public because they know most people find such attitudes repugnant. In private it's a different matter.

precisely , Irving made a big deal out of Hitler not being the man in charge of the Holocaust ... Zundel just seemed to be totally bonkers to me tho

It was recently pointed out to me by a German that, to deny the holocaust is as if you are on the courts witness stand and you committ purgery in a trial, thats why the assailant was jailed.
With that in mind I personly can see the point, because Freedom of Speech has no place under purgery and yes I realise the prisoners denial of the holocaust, took place out of the courts, but by LAW the Holocaust, was placed to rest as TESTIMONY TO TRUTH...SO One is LITERALLY IN CONTEMPT OF the LAW when one denies the Holocaust...hence the 5 year penalty. So freedom of speech has really nothing to do with the fact, you are simply BREAKING THE LAW. Also the Holocaust, the idea of it was designed in this Country and not all elements of the idea have been laid to rest as its victims, so ligitation is the answer to that.
We should not ever spare history. Lives are too precious.
Cheers.

The law denying people the right to question the Holocaust shows the Germans aren't yet confident of their position in the world. They know if they allow people to deny the Holocaust the media will claim Germany is sliding back to fascism. There have been numerous racially motivated attacks in the US over the years but nobody claims the US is sliding back towards segregation. And Germany has no more chance of becoming facist than the Americans do of reinstating segregation. It's just not going to happen. It's been over sixty years since the Holocaust, there have even been a few others in the intervening years; it's time for the Germans to get over it and move on.

the Spiegel Online's article gives the opinions of several German national newspapers.
here's Zündel's website outlining his publication:
Did Six Million Really Die?
is he really a Holocaust denier? think he appears to be analysing the extent of the Holocaust.

Its a ridiculous law. You must not stop free speech no matter how stupid it is.

I'm really not sure how i feel about this because by default i believe in freedom of speech.

However i don't think the racist and extreme views of wankers like Abu Hamza should be allowed to go unpunished and i am therefore already in acceptance of some level of state intervention.

Furthermore, i am not German and so my pysche is unaffected by whatever guilt process has been built in to me and therefore can't pontificate on how the German race as a whole should view this.

Let's get this straight...recently a Al Quadia terrorist walked free out of a Jail, given pocket money due to the German Govt. giving into the demands of terrorist in Iraq.

A convicted terrorist/murderer (cold blood) has been granted clemency by the Germany President because "its the humane thing to do". (RAF)

However, a man who wrote that the Holocaust was greately exaggerated (not technically denying) on his website blog has been given 5 years in Jail.

crimes against humanity is overlooked and freedom of speach is squashed. CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

Its like passing a law that forbids you saying Mrs Thatcher was not great. How would you like that.

Not at all cause she was a wreckless bitch with no compassion for anything or anybody.

She never had a wreck!! Bet Dennis was glad about that " Listen Maggie, I know you are the P.M. but I´m really glad you never had a wreck, by the way where is my gin bottle"".

Nice1...

I can. Its easy, really.

The first was a supposed Al Queda member. He walked because they could not find evidence that he commited a crime. Germany is a constitutional state, which means that until prooven guilty you are considered innocent and free to walk.

The second was a convicted murder that had done his sentence. Germany is a constitutional state, which means that when you have done your time you are considered a free citizen again and are free to walk. Here in Germany Life-long does not mean 'until you are dead', it is simply the code for the worst possible punishment, its usually around 20+ years. Being a constitional state also means that we try to correct and reintegrate instead of biblical revenge.

the third broke the law and insulted thousends of living survivors of one of the worst crimes in history. Even if it wasnt for the crime he'd deserved some punishment for belittling what millions of people had to endure and some still remember every night. I wouldnt object if they gave him the same sentence as the aforementioned terrorist.

I mean it is obvious what that lowlife is trying to do, why else would he try to argue that maybe it wasnt 6 Million but maybe one or one and a half less? No one can really imagine the agony of a million people, so if it is 2, 3,4,5 or 6 is absolutely EGAL. What they trying to do is simply throwing as much mud as they can, hoping some will stick. As soon as the confidence in the number is widespread enough, someone will try questining if maybe it was just a few thousand ... and of course they deserved it ...

No, you gotta fight this evil as soon as it raises its ugly head, that is what can be learned from '33. And in my opinion they are not doing it early and hard enough.

That being said i think the symbols should stay illegal, but i consider it to be counterproductive to punish kids for using them, those should rather be ridiculed instead of being honored with the rebel medal.

Just two examples... (at least from were I live)
When you are going to cross the street, everyone wait for the lamp, but if anybody start to walk, all the people do the same behind...
when I drive 80 over the bridge that is max 60, all the cars behind go 80, then, if I reduce to 60, all behind reduce the speed too, just maybe 1 of each 30 cars continue 80 and pass over my left, (and I dont have a truck! )

in my opinion, the people here is "law driven", so they need a law that force to remember and to accept what they did, I believe is the only way to make a change,
if Hitler knew or not, who cares, if they kill 6M or 6K, who cares, if you let just one to have doubts about that ... after a while all will do the same...
you need a german law for germans, you can intimidate with jail or –here more effective- with money (a fine), if you do not do in that way, you will have a law with a lot of words, but finally very difficult to apply. The discrimination law is a good example, if you read about the law you will realize that just a few things are not allow, and because of that, some behaviours are publicly accepted.
http://eumc.europa.eu/eumc/material/pub/Ar..._Germany-en.pdf(summary in page 30)

K

And you really believe that is any different to say the UK, Japan or Timbaktu?.. I don't think so.


To make exactly what change? And ' what they did'...who's 'they'..the war generation, the youth of today...or??

Don't you think that memory fades away in whichever country you live, or which ever cultural background you come from? Human nature to me and not reserved for the Germans only!

@interbrit:


Sorry I had never been in japan or timbaktu, I was in UK but just for vacations, but I was living in US and south America and I can tell you that most of the people that worked with me will not follow any rule just because exist, you need a degree of common sense, returning to the lamp example you can think: ok, I should wait for the lamp, but if there is no car…and i´m sure you already cross the street, and didn’t see what the others did it. Now you can say, is this good?? I didn’t say good or bad, I just try to point out that in the german culture rules are important, in a way that most of the people need an excuse to brake it –you walked first- and this is not the same in all cultures.


Germany after the war was just dust, despite of who pays the party, when I see the country now, I think that this is a big change, and you cannot do this thinking that all past time was the best or saying this never happened…


All the people that for direct action or omission helped to kill other people, and all the people that even today think that there are reasons to did it or do it again, -off course in this case were/are not only Germans but the law until now is only applicable here -


Totally agree with you, in fact I always try to forget that I broke a french vase of my mom when I was a child , but a nation or culture, needs to have a mechanism (a monument, a date, a martyr, a law) in order to remember, and to make to others to remember, to try to comprehend why “shit happens� and to try to avoid repetitions.
K