Potential newbie in need of info

Munich Toytowners!

I've read a vast amount of posts and have to say that I'm hugely impressed by the level and scale of the banter. Just like home!!

I'm currently considering an offer to come and work in Munich and am trying to get an idea on a range of things, including the cost of living, accommodation and what to do with free time. I know there are hundreds of threads out there with a lot of information but thought I'd try my own one and accept the newbie-baiting that comes with it!

1. accommodation: the job would be based near St Martins Strasse and I was thinking of apartments in Schwabing, Altstadt, Bogenhausen and Haidhausen. From what I can tell from some of the online accommodation sites, prices vary hugely.

Any guideline prices on what I should be looking to pay for a decent 2 bedroom apartment? Need 2 beds as lots of people seem to have declared an interest in visiting Munich in late September / early October timeframe. weird...

Is the general consensus to go for furnished or unfurnished? I've read the horror stories of unfurnished literally meaning an empty shell...

And I suppose buying is a bad idea?

2. Cost of living: Seeing as I currently live in London, Munich should be a fair bit cheaper, but asking the experts seems to be the way to go - what are your thoughts?

3. Sports etc: What are the prospects like for decent tennis clubs, gym, golf, 5-a-side footie etc? Any information about where the good ones are and if they're within close proximity of the areas I mention above would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks in advance and I hope to be able to enjoy a glass or two at one of the TT evenings in the near future.

Best

Biggles

Love the username...

Although Munich is Germany's most expensive city, you'll find things to be substantially cheaper here than in London, especially rent, transport and going out. Forget about buying property; wait until you can speak German and plan to settle here at least medium-term. Most places are unfurnished so you'll be severely restricting yourself if you want somewhere that is furnished. However, many places do come with a kitchen (advertised as 'EBK' for Einbaukuche). The advantage of getting your own furniture is that you can make the place more your own style, although it is a pain if you only plan on being here a year or two. See if your new employer will help with your relocation costs; they may well pay the agency (Makler) fee for finding you an apartment, which can save a couple of thousand euros.

Not too sure about gyms and whatnot, but we have Europe's largest playground on our doorstep (the Alps), so if you're into hiking or skiing then you're laughing.

Hi, biggles, sounds like you have found just the right site for your needs. If you have time to play around with the features just browse the different forums, and if you are looking for anything particular use the search function on the top right of your screen. You are not the first and certainly won't be the last "newbie" to feel overwhelmed by the move, and the more you prepare yourself the better.
Cheers, have a nice time getting to know Toytown, its members and How To Deal With Germany.
Regarding accommodation, look at the forum Accommodation Offered, you will get an idea of prices and furnishing from there
Sports in Munich provides you with a run-down of what TTers do where and when
sb

deffo go for unfurnished if you are planning on staying for a year or so
you'll pay a fair bit more rent per month for furnished
and you can get furniture second-hand (sometimes only a few months old) from folk on here (or elsewhere) who are moving on or moving in with partners etc

Thanks Sara and STB,

Appreciate the input. There would be a relocation agent involved but the tip on unfurnished but with kitchen looks like being the best info I've had in a while. I'll do some searches on accommodation now as well.

All I need now is a written offer!!!

Not much of hiker and haven't ski'ed for more than 20 years, but looks like that will have to change - just one of many in store methinks!

Cheers
B

Hi there Biggles, and welcome to Munich.

You seem to have your information more or less right on the accommodation. Schwabing, I guess, is the more chique part of town to live in, closer to the happening places of the city. I wouldn't expect to pay cheap for an apartment there, but coming from London I think you'd find the prices here lower.

When looking for an apartment, one big advantage is speaking German, or having someone to speak it for you. Although the situation is much better now than it was 4-5 years ago, for some apartments, especially in most-wanted areas, you have to line up with the rest of the interested and wait for the landlord to pick who he wants to have the apartment. Get ready to show your papers and letters proving that you're a decent bloke that has a constant income to cover the rent. During the selection process, some people will prefer a German-speaking over a non-German speaking person.

When we first came here we looked at ~30 apartments in various parts of town until we found what we're happy with. If you have decent German, look up here: www.quoka.de, the biggest online ad paper in the south, also good for stuff such as used furniture, cars, etc. We found prices vary widely with location, but also with season: 1 week after the beginning of the university semester, prices dropped around 200EUR a month for bigger apartments. This could be a fluke, but we took advantage of it anyways. If you have time to invest, look at the offers in that link and make a little survey of your own. Also this TT guide link might be of use.

About empty apartments: welcome again to Munich. While there are exceptions (i.e. furnished or partially furnished), the rule seems to be - when people leave an apartment, they strip it more or less clean. I find this practice particularly ridiculous, and wasteful both energy- and money-wise, especially with rented apartments that seem to change hands every few years. So when an ad in the paper says "Küche" (check out this online En-De dictionary), it means "empty room that has water and sewage connections that can serve as a kitchen, after investing 3000EUR to furnish it". When the ad says EBK or "Einbauküche", it means that the aforementioned room actually has cupboards, maybe an oven/stove range and if you're lucky - a fridge. Oh, and a sink as well.

As for cost of living, this is a long discussion (see above link), but I think it's fair to say you'd find it much cheaper than London in any case.

Sports: you've reached the right city. Sports is a big thing in Munich i find, relative to other cities I've visited. Lots of gyms, a plethora of sports clubs, especially those occupied with football and outdoor/mountaineering sports (the Alps start 45 minutes by train from the center), but I think you'd find virtually any sport anyone has ever invented. Can't find the link for the motorbike-pulled-cross-country-skiing thingy, but you get the drift. Try the search option in this forum for whatever it is you get your kick out of, it's very useful and most sports issues have already been discussed sometime or another in this forum.

Good luck and all the best with your move!

Currently working in London on a project so am experiencing both cities at once. Can safely say that you will pay same in € what you pay in GBP here in London on average. accommodation is about 30-40% of cost of london ie my apartment in London is 3x what my munich apartment costs and obviously no council tax in munich which saves another 150 quid a month on average. Public transport much cheaper ie around 40€ a month in munich compared to equivalent 85 quid in london. And beer is cheaper too!

So, food, accommodation and beer cheaper - its a no brainer

Oh and another tip re flats but you may have worked that out already - if you want two bedrooms then you are looking for a three room flat. They advertise the total number of rooms ie living room and bedroom is a two room, living room and two bedrooms is a three room. ...

Beware relocation agents. While they do have a value, and for some things (registering, paperwork, etc.) can actually be invaluable, some take shortcuts when offering accommodation, or only have access to limited selections as they often work hand-in-hand with particular housing agents. Once you get the hang of it it's easy to interpret "advert-speak" and understand the main abbreviations used, even in German and spot good deals or interesting offers in local newspapers, which you can then hand off to the relo-agent to ask them to pursue

Thanks to all for their help and sound advice. Still negotiating with possible employer (why does it ALWAYS take so much longer than you think!?) but hope to get things straight in the next few weeks then will do a fact-finding / flat-hunting trip over.

From the sounds of it, a good time to be in town would definitely be around one of the TT get-togethers so will watch the "meet-ups" page with interest - always up for a beer or two

Cheers to all

Tschuss

Biggs

Word to the wise, Cardinal: Avoid tschüss at all costs, the natives don't like it very much and might treat you like a Northern German instead of being nice to you because you're a mere foreigner.
Ciao, wiedaschaugn, habedieehre are fine.

Do you think so, SB? I find I get Tchüssed here all the time. Maybe it's more outside Munich that they avoid it though? Or the older Bavarians?

One thing I did find funny when I first moved here from Heidelberg was being corrected in the bakery when I ordered Brötchen instead of Semmel. They'd actually ask "Meinen Sie Semmel?" as though they really weren't sure!

Good luck with your negotiations, Biggles - hope you have a good trip.

I feel the same. I Tschüss and get Tschüssed all the time in Munich. I even got Tschüssed in the tankstelle this very evening even though I had Ciao'd the guy.

I hesitate though, to use the version from my time in Vienna. The lovely Tschüss-papa which I'm told has its origins from WWII and English speakers saying Bye-bye.

I prefer servus, good for coming and going!

Rule of thumb:
Two years or less, go for furnished. The hassle of buying and selling is just not worth it. You will come out on the downside.
Remember, you can always buy those neat little things when you have time and there is no stress to have it now.

More than two years: Go unfurnished and buy what you want. More stress involved, but hell, you will be here long enough to absorb it all.

Always, but always, rent an apartment with a fucking kitchen. The resale value is nil and it is simply stupid not to rent an apartment that has no fucking kitchen in it.

If you need furniture, contact me (shameless self promotion).

What ho biggles! Welcome to the squadron old cheese. Tell you what, get in a crate and take a shufty over Munich. Lot's of us bods that had to bale ended up incarcerated here. Terrible, terrible conditions I would have you know, they force us to drink only the highest quality beers at low, low prices and then have the nerve to give us money back on the empties. The women are awful; far, far too rollicking for a red blooded pilot to withstand, and biergartens... dastardly Jerry plot to make us stiff upper types have fun. Shouldn't be allowed under the rules of The Geneva Convention. Oh! How I long for the day when I can get to the top of the Escape Committee, tunnel my way out of here, short dash to neutral territory in Switzerland, and then smuggled back via Vichy France to join in the good fight. Damn, blast, balderdash and Hell's teeth, it must be seven whole years since I last had a pikey knocking on my portal, had the jalopy stolen from in front of one's very own nose, found remnants of carrots and peas up the side of the garden fence, or was propositioned by ladies in see-through blouses and long white boots at one o'clock in the morning at the traffic lights. God, I miss Blighty so.