Missed debt collection letter due to move

Hi,

I really need help. The situation is that I bought something last year around the world cup at H&M for something like €22 using my EC card, and I had tried numerous times to change my address at the bank, and I thought that it had been done. Then I get an sms from the people at my old address like 7 months later saying that they have a pile of mail addressed to me, and someone had opened one of my letters. I then get a sms yesterday saying "you got a letter from a Debt collection agency reg: h&m for €177 demanding payment"...I ask what the date of the letter is I get no response. I want this mail immediately because I don´t know how many moths old it is, and what rights I have to dispute this amount, because I never received the letters, and what impact this would have on my credit rating...off course, if I had the details in my hand right now I would try to call immediately, but since the people at my old address are making it difficult for me to get my mail.

contact H&M by the sound of things?

if they have your number to send you a text what are they doing opening your mail?

It's a bit late now, but when you move you can get a mail redirection service at the post office so that all your mail goes to the new address (you still might be able to do it so that no more mail goes to the old address.)

You used your EC card to buy something at H&M and now they are dunning you? If your EC card does not work the transaction fails, basta. Take a look at your bank statements and see if any direct debit was denied and returned. And get in touch with H&M pdq.
Did you have a forwarding order for your mail? If not, get one now.

Beat you to it!

I also always thought that if there wasn't enough money in my account, that the EC card transaction wouldn't go through. But I had a situation where the EC payment was approved at the time of the sale, and then when it actually came out of the account a few days later, I didn't have enough money to cover the debit. (Long story, don't ask...) Then I also got these kinds of letters demanding payment with penalties. I didn't get the first few letters (that the debt collector insisted were sent) and by the time I did receive a letter, the original amount of €32 had gone up to €127 with penalties. I ended up just paying it to get it over with, rather than trying to fight it because I didn't receive the original letters.

I'm not sure why it is difficult to get your mail from your former address, but I think you need to haul butt over there and get the letters so you can call the debt collectors. In my experience, the penalties just got more and more severe over time.

I think more important than getting in touch with H&M is to speak to the debt collector directly. The sooner you speak to them and arrange a payment plan the better. The debt collector is now responsible for sorting this out, not the store.

That's ok, it takes longer to answer the question than just post advice

Since she does not have the original letter with the agency's name, phone number and case number she should contact H&M's legal department and ask them for the info.

Thank you so much for you advice...I went immediately to the H&M website to find out how I could get in contact with H&M customer service, and they gave me an option of sending through a question\problem so I explained pretty much what I posted here. I hope they can shed some light and get me in contact with the debt collectors because I don´t want this to have any impact on my credit rating..it´s just hard because although I can speak German my English accent is still very thick, and they treat you like a dog straight away on the phone..hmmmm cross fingers...I haven´t been sleeping as a result of this, because it´s really not my fault.


Kontakt
Danke!

Ihre Nachricht wurde gesendet. Wir werden uns so schnell wie möglich mit Ihnen in Verbindung setzen!

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
H&M

Nope. Low-value transactions (generally <€100, <€50 at electronics shops and others requesting it) aren't normally electronically confirmed. The PIN may or may not be required for the low-value transactions. If you make a €32 purchase at Tengelmann and only have €15 in your account when the transaction reconciliation is sent (generally every €200-2000, depending on volume), the payment bounces and you get a nastygram plus charges. It's Germany. The mentality is "It's your own responsibility to know how much money you have".

woof.

Could be true for small amounts, I never pay anything less than €50 on EC so I wouldn't know from experience.

I will let you know if I get a response in the next day from H&M, if not I will try and telephone them..just wish me luck..I´m feeling a little nervous...I checked before making the purchase if I had enough money in my account and I did, but perhaps there was a charge or a fee pending that pushed my account over the limit..I know that can sometimes happen.

I would focus on getting your mail from your old address; I think that will work out quicker.

Just pay the €32 to H&M and ignore the letters, unless of course they have served you with a mannbescheid. This however would be hard for them to prove as you haven't signed for any post and they MUST prove that you received the letters. I take it you are registered at your new address? If so then they could have found out where you lived quite easily.

I've had this several times, the first time I spoke to a lawyer he told me to ignore the "extra" costs. You are only responsible for the original debt and any interest on it, you did not hire the debt collection agency, H&M did, they must cover the fees. I've followed his advice every time and never had to pay a penny more.

It is not clear to me whether or not you are still living in Munich (your profile says Bogenhausen). If you are, then get your ass over to your old apartment and collect your own mail. If I were the new renter at your old place and I had sent you a few SMSes telling you about your mail, I would be pissed off too.

I disagree: The Mahnbescheid (court order) counts as delivered as soon as it hits the bottom of your mailbox.


(valid starting 1.Jul.2002). Your friendly mailman signs a form stating when he delivered the Mahnbescheid and forwards it to the court.
So find out if the agency has indeed applied for a court order, if so when was it delivered where, and have they followed up with a Vollstreckungsbescheid (collectable writ). If they are an agency worth half their fees they will impound your bank account as soon as they receive confirmation that the writ has been delivered. Your bank must transfer the money to the agency, the writ becomes invalid and should be sent to you (cancelled!), H&M is happy.

Yes I´m living in Munich...I wanted to go and pick up my mail today but they were not home, and I keep trying never home..I asked if they could leave it out..they wouldn´t...

Sure, einwuerf is acceptable, however he doesn't live there anymore, so it stands to reason that a different name will be on the briefkasten. Just saying that it would be pretty hard for them to prove that he actually received the mannbescheid and had acceptable time to query the sum. A Vollstreckungsbescheid is a different situation altogether, no way out. My point was, that if it hasn't gotten this far then he isn't accountable for the debt collection agencys' fees.

Unless something's changed recently, under German law the letter counts as delivered if it's delivered to your "Umfeld" - i.e. to the address on the company's books. At the same time, if the letter is returned by the post office, stating that you no longer live there, any "threats" of debt collection are not valid - as the company has been officially informed that you no longer live there. Had a situation at work recently where we had to send everything out again for that reason. Might be worth trying to clarify why your mail was delivered to your old address and not returned to the sender on the basis you didn't live there any more.

I need advice---
I found a bank account number for H&M, should I just make a payment direct to H&M, since I´m not able to get my hands on the original mail? And then write a letter to H&M explaining the situation even though I did it the other day?? (no response there) Help!!!

No. H&M has handed this to the agency, payment must be rendered to them only. It can take forever and a day for H&M to inform the agency and until then costs and interest are mounting. Have you contacted H&M's Legal Department? Don't bother with any general e-mail address etc., get on the phone and badger them until they give you the correct contact details.

It may be a tad too late for that I'm afraid... It does, however, sound as though you knew about this non-payment at the beginning so were you just hoping that it would eventually go away? Just interested like

I don't understand why you're having so many problems getting your mail. If they're being non-communicative then just go round there and ring on their doorbell.

Wooohoooo!! I finally got my mail forwarded onto me today, and I called the collection agency immediately and explained the situation, they reduced the amont from €117.58 to €79.50 I agreed upon payment Friday-Saturday..Luckily the lady was ever so nice to me and changed the address.