Germany orders arrest of 13 CIA officers

BBC News: Germany issues CIA arrest orders


Interesting that it says they could be arrested were they to travel to the "European Union". So that means if they show up in the UK they could be handed over to the German authorities.

Also, this reminds me of the similar case where Germany is trying to prosecute Donald Rumsfeld for alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib.

Yes, since the adoption of the European Arrest Warrant, Germany can expect any other EU country to arrest and transfer to German custody anyone wanted for questioning over here.

Is it the same in the states? If you get picked up in one state they can send you to another where you have an outstanding warrant? I don't really see anything wrong with this. I do find it rather scary that the CIA acts willy nilly without regard for international laws. Imagine if you were mistaken for a suspected terrorist and got picked up while on holiday by a secret policing service. Detained without trial in a country that isn't yours and then released a year or so later?!? We carry on about North Korea and places like that were people go missing all the time. How much are is the United States becoming such a stasi state by trying to fight terrorism. I think the US has gone well too far.

Supposing they land at a US base here in Europe?

Yes. And if you are convicted of crimes in both states (and sentenced to prison) then you may need to serve time in prisons in each state - but if you get a deal then you might be able to serve the sentences concurrently, or not serve time in addition to the time that you may have already spent in jail (waiting for court dates, etc.) - i.e. sentenced to time already served

It depends which one - only some bases are considered "US soil"

Indeed true. And aided and abetted by supposedly more humane countries in Europe and elsewhere.

It's this type of thread where BadBob's illuminating conjecture is sorely missed. Here you have government agents kidnapping a totally innocent person, holding him for months and doing whatever they please to him, then dumping him thousands of miles away without so much as a bus pass. How can anyone claim that that sort of behaviour makes the rest of us safer? Only BadBob can explain that.

Actually All US bases in German are considered "US Soil"...

However, as per the Status of Forces Agreement, any major crime commited on a base is the
Jurisdiction of the German Govt. (Cops,BKA,LKA,BND). So they can still demand access to the
base to grab these people if they know they are there.  But the US can still hide the person
and move them around so they aren't found..

what is most funny about this: Germany...ordering...cia personnel

ha ha ha ha ha ha...what right does germany think it has to order the nation that basically allows them to exist on a daily basis?

how about they try to keep their murderers and terrorist in jail and not the ones who are trying to police them.

You get my spazz of the month award. Congratulations.

I reckon he has a good chance in for Spazz of the year too.

"the nation that basically alllows them to exist" . That is quality.

i dont make the rules or the facts, i just report them. I dont think the usa is acting in the best interest for the usa or the world, but this is nothing new and they arent the only country to do so. in fact, i would dare say the cia is probably quieter since the end of the cold war. then again, i may find myself, blindfolded in the middle of the night and in some mid eastern prison for my comments.

as far as spazz...come on kids, you can be a little more clever and intelligent, cant you?

while i do think the 'country that allows them to exist' comment was a little much...the "spazz" (haha) has a small point...the CIA would never allow any of their personnel to be arrested by the EU.

Not when you make comments like the one below. I wasn't trying to be clever or intelligent, just calling it as I see it. Spazz.

How will they stop them? Assuming those whose arrest is warranted ever set foot in the EU again.

That's my point... why would they send them back again - under the same identity, at least.

Yeah of course the CIA aren't going to be arrested by the German or Eu authorities. Goes without saying. However, to suggest that Germany only exists because America allows them to is pure and complete bollox.

So one day, America has enough of Germany existing, it just pulls the plug and says enough of that . Bang, Germany is gone and no longer exists.

Anythings possible. At least with their present government.

LOL! Ummmmmmm... No.

ok, perhaps allows to exist is a bit strong...but lets read between the lines...

historically, The USA and Canada were the only allied forces after ww2 that was supporting the marshall plan and making germany a great industrial, technical and science nation again...the UK, France, Netherlands, Poland, USSR, etc. etc. all wanted Germany dismantled and made into an agriculture nation, totally void of any industrial, military strength.

With continued financial and political support, Germany did once again not only thrive, but became one of the strongest economical stable nations of the world. The relationship between the Yanks/Amis and the Germans have historically always been a very good one.

On the business/private sector level, it is as strong today. Politically, it has been strained under the misguidence of both Schröder and Bush, Merkel is improving relationships with Washington DC, but she is also a realist, she knows Bush's (and his administration's) time is limited and will more than welcome the change.

In essence both the USA and Germany heavily rely on one another, as does the EU on Germany, being that they are the most influencial economy of the EU.

Yes dear.

one thing is for certain...no cia operative or american government, soldier, etc would ever be tried in Germany or Europe. It is just a propaganda media hype. When Germany gets their act together, perhaps others will listen to what they have to say outside their land.

You seem to be a little 'verwirrt'...or missed some valuable history lessons. The Marshall plan was in fact pouring money into almost all (west)european countries.
And throwing money at you doesn't make a successful country after total devastation. After all, the US had a distinctive interest in getting Germany back up it's feet...the reason being called Sowjet-Union and the cold war. In today's globalised world with vast economical networks we all rely on each other...the Germans do not have to suck the US tit, or vice versa..

Marshall Fund Aid was also offered to the Sowjet-Union and her newly made allies. It was rejected by the liberator Stalin.


Certainly helps. Feeding Berlin for the year of 1948 was a freebie too. But looking back, think of all the CO2 created... I guess NATO, free markets, democracy and The Constitution foisted upon them helped too. Twas truly time to bear the unbearable...


Uh, Germany had a big interest too deary. Along with the rest of Europe. Christ, even the French were friendly back then.


Too true. Germany is Iran's biggest trading partner.

You're sorely mistaken in your john wayne inspired take on post wwii history. The reason Germany became the powerhouse it did is because in the post war years, Germany was a country of immigrants. Roughtly 9 million of them were kicked out of their homes in eastern Europe and sent to the BRD. Another 4 million were settled in the DDR. Anytime that immigration is so massive and consists of well educated but impoverished people, the results are amazing. Yes, the US did help but it was assistance largely based on supporting industry in the US. Industry that would have collapsed at the end of the war without this massive subsidy.

The other issue that is so often overlooked is that communism was beginning to gain a foothold in the BRD. The communists biggest tool was food. They were offering 2000 calories a day, while the US was only offering 1200. It didn't take long for the Americans to realize that an empty stomach is a powerful motivator.

One can only hope that one of those idiotic CIA officers tries to vacation in the EU and gets caught. It's about time that bushco and the criminals who've so blindly obeyed him are made to pay for their crimes.

Gets their act together? How exactly have they not got their act together already? I think most people would agree that America should get their act together if they want to be listened to by the rest of the world.

@Bumpy

Naturally, you defend the generous aid of the US after WWII, but you miss the point. Money helps whatever, but it's like investing in something ... and harvest the return. Don't fool yourself by thinking that the Marshall plan didn't produce ample returns for the US.

PS. ..liberator Stalin... I like your sense of humour

Anyway, we seem to go off topic..

So what? It was fundamental in bringing a continent that had been shattered by war from economic abyss to economic prosperity.

Its hardly reeking of John Wayne. The fact is money helps a lot of things. Of course, its what you do with the money (how much has Africa received all these years?) and your implication of Germany's skill set is correct. Obviously there is a massive difference in agreeing to bankroll Konrad Adenauer compared to let's say, Yasser Arafat.

I do not agree at all with the last sentence in the quote. American industry was not beholden to her former enemy getting back on her feet. Indeed the opposite was true. The American economy enjoyed a unique period of prosperity due to the fact that the world's industry was shattered. However, it was vital for this not to become the status quo as we have seen what happens to industries with no competition (Trabi or Mercedes?). The Marshall Plan was good for Europe and good for America and the rest of the world. Nothing wrong with that. And if it kept Germany, Italy and France from becoming like 1950s Eastern Europe, well, is that a bad thing? Where would you have preferred to reside?

Finally, the Korean War gave a huge boost to the German economy as the US flooded Germany with orders for goods.

Couldn't agree more with you!

No surprises here:

What would be funny is if a few of those officers were from TT.

13 from germany, and 26 from italy (heard on the beeb). 'no, we won't extradite them because they wouldn't face [a legitimate court], ba ba ba ba um ba ba'

dude the guy was stuttering. i turned the radio off. almost always do now when a spokeperson or condi or some other n.a. admin btch talks. kept me off white sugar too, just think of a big pile of it on the plate b4 diggin into manufactured processed junk. bush's nose sugar habit.

the way the administration of georgie porgie got around the anomaly of misleading while verbal communicating was by parroting exactly the same line by all the reps. i.e. condie says exactly the response used by all the other playas, thought up collectively, and whomeever really pulls the strings.

the story is as clear as german tapwater.

we lye, people die. no, we don't care. and we come from an antisocial culture in as long as people work in large corporate syndicate, and dangle tinsel out to stun the herds, can get away scott-free and have no personal responsibility. you really didn't think the admin would be any different then the established pattern?

please don't waste my time holding up 'prosecution' of enron execs, - interrupting golf games, as a counter-example. the turkey on the stick held out the window for the dogs. any excuse for war.

so, do we have - company?