Long flight delays and lost baggage

So I was supposed to fly back (with Lufthansa) from Manchester back into Munich yesterday evening at 5.30pm. 10 minutes before the plane takes off, they announced that they're having problems with the engine, so please come back at 6.30pm.

Past 6.30pm they said they will get more information at 8.30pm. Past 8.30pm, we're all watching the announcement screens, and it keeps flashing "Next information at 21:00", which later changed into "Next information at 22:00", and "...23:00". Finally at 23:00, a Manchester airport lady told us that Lufthansa wants to fly at 2:15am, so that they can get into Munich airport at 5:15am, which is by the way, past the "night curfew hours" (12.30am to 5am?).

So all in all, a delay of almost 9 hours (5.30pm ==> 2.15am). We were given some coupons for food -- about 5 to 10 pounds, but no hotel stay or any other compensation of any sort!

So my question is: any of you have any experience with this, and what can I do? I plan to write a feedback/complaint e-mail to Lufthansa to see what they can offer...

I found this link here: http://www.euroconsumer.org.uk/index/your_...avel_delays.htm, but not sure whether that's still valid in my case.

Appreciate any advice, thanks!

Maybe this helps:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3040432.stm

I wrote an email complaining to Lufthansa after they changed our flight without telling us and messed up our weekend trip to Manchester. I didn't expect to get anything but was pleasantly surprised when they sent us a cheque for 250 euros each - more than the cost of the tickets. Maybe having an Airbus email address helped.

I was once delayed at Munich airport for 9 hours, meant to be flying to Manchester. I neither got any compensation nor food coupons and had to rely on a nice American tourist who was also delayed for his spare food voucher (he offered it me) as I had no money on me to buy anything. However in my case the problem was due to some problem in the UK and LH said they weren't responsible (IIRC something like fog whacking out the communications system/radio tower). Same as you thouhg, every hour or two hours they'd say ther was another hour delay.. keeping us waiting as they didn't know what was happening. So even though I was 20 mins from home I still had to wait 9 hrs there!

Lufthansa only have the following to say (found on their website 'Search' with 'compensation' as the keyword):

If my flight is delayed, will I be compensated for the consequences of that delay?

Lufthansa offers passengers drinks, meals, alternative transport arrangements or the cost of hotel accommodation, within the context of the facilities on the ground and the actual circumstances. This service is offered voluntarily under our ‘Customer Service Plan’. We only have a legal liability to pay compensation for further expenses and costs if the flight delay is clearly our fault.

Never personally experienced such a long delay so I don't know the exact details ...however, the information I found on which.co.uk may be beneficial...

I was on the same flight (or not as the case may be!!), was actually around 2:40 when we took off cos there was a further delay getting the bags off for the two people who didn't get on the flight. I asked at MCR if I could claim something because as a contractor if I don't work I don't get paid, and I thought it was unreasonable to get in at 6am then be in work for 8am, which the woman in MCR agreed with. She said I'd have to see the Lufthansa people in Munich...went to the service desk, the girl there said you can try asking but I wouldn't hold out much hope!! She gave me a card with an address to write to... Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Kundendialog Deutschland, 33322 Gutersloh ... Telefax 01805 / 838005 (12 cents per min) ... whatever a telefax is.. no email address though. Might be worth a try.

erm, a fax machine?

I sent them an email via their website's Help & Contact section. You can enter a pretty lengthy complaint in there as well as your flight number, etc.

@Expat Mat - thanks, got your PM, will use it for sure! Thanks for the tip on the e-mail too, that's much easier than faxing them something and getting it all lost, etc... will let you know if it works!

@BigBernie - You were there too? I went home from the airport, took a shower, and came right to work, but that doesn't mean I can do much work!

I wonder if I should quote the EU Regulations, etc. Or maybe I'll keep that up my sleeves till they reject my complaint...

yeah I considered going straight to work, but as you say, you're not in any fit state to do anything then, so I got in for midday. I'm gonna state my case, either via the email addr mentioned or the address I was given, see if they come up with anything off their own bat, as somebody earlier stated that they got some money from Lufty...no questions asked, then if they don't come up with anything, start quoting legalese and stuff, hopefully they'll be accommodating if not too many people are asking for something, or am I hoping that there is an undue amount of humanity in these corporate machines???

Okay, I just submitted my complaint letter to Lufthansa, following the advice of Expat Mat, hope they reply soon...

Based on extrapolation, Expat Mat was delayed for 4 hours ==> 250 Euro voucher. And so 9 hours delay ==> Euro 550 voucher???

As far as I am aware, the compensation is not related to delay in as much as it is related to the distance of the flight.

Why8, keep us posted. I also atm have a complaint with British Airways. on the 29th our flight, once airborn to heathrow, was sent back due to the landing gear malfunctioning. Our subsequent flight to Australia was missed. As such, it added another 26 hours to our flight time in total.

So far, 2 weeks and counting, BA have yet to respond without automation to any of the 3 emails I have sent.

This is covered by EU regulation (EC) No 261/2004:

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat...7en00010007.pdf

which came into force 17 February 2005. The relevant provision is summarised as


Article 6 of the regulation covers delays. Article 7 covers compensation (and shows why a 250 euro payment was given). Article 9 covers meals, hotel etc. I particularly like article 14 about the obligation to inform passengers of their rights.

Personally I didn't know any of this, but I shall print it and take it with me next time I fly SleazyJet!

@Zeppelin
You should try faxing them or sending a letter.

>>I particularly like article 14 about the obligation to inform passengers of their rights.

There was no information whatsoever, that's for sure. The poor harried Manchester Airport lady told us she's waiting for information from Lufthansa. One other passenger phoned Lufthansa Help Desk and they were closed till 5am.

Many other passengers were suggesting that Lufthansa just wanted to save costs on hotel by keeping us in the airport continously. Someone somewhere knows that latest time they have to fly out of Manchester to arrive in Munich before the Munich airport night curfew (12am till 5am) is 21:00!

Let's see what Lufthansa says about my case, will keep you all posted.

Still no reply from Lufthansa. Did you get any response yet, BigBernie?

Should I write to them?

Still no reply from Lufthansa...

I will write them another letter on their website...

Send them a letter with the normal post, registered would be best. E-Mails are too easily deleted/ ignored.

I can't beleive that after a 9 hour delay you guys are being so wimpy about getting compensated. I tend to lose business to my competitors if I am one hour late let alone 9 hours. You have been massively inconvenienced by a "mechanical failure" which is in the airlines power to correct. Its not like the weather which is outside their control. Pick up phones, write letters, whire e-mails until you get compensation. Actually, you should have demanded something from the painted laidies on the plane. Tell them what your hourly work rate is, add an amount for compensating for "loss of reputation" as you were in no fit state to go to meetings etc. Its no good waiting, they're not having a committee meeting on the subject - its gone to the bottom of the pile. They are a big corporation hoping you've gone away.

Another delay and complaint experience:

I complained a couple of days ago at United Airlines. The flight was 4.5 hrs delayed before departure (due to wheather conditions), and I complained about the way this was handled (the passengers had to remain seated and we didn't get anything to eat). I asked for recompensation of half the flight price (of the return ticket) -well I thought I could give it a try. this was the answer I got some days later (today):

Dear Mrs. xxxr,

Thank you for contacting us. I understand you experienced a long delay on the aircraft before your departure.

I am sorry you were kept waiting because of weather irregularities that affected the flight's status. You mention that in these situations we should return the aircraft to the gate so passengers could wait in the terminal. However, this is seldom possible because there often is another plane at the gate. And, the captain would lose the flight's place in line for takeoff that could result in an even longer delay or cancellation. Your frustration nonetheless is understood.

While we can not make up for the inconvenience that you experienced, in an effort to extend a tangible gesture of our goodwill, I am sending you a travel certificate as a genuine and sincere expression of our apologies. Please allow 1-150 business days for the delivery of the same.

Your business matters to us. Please give us another opportunity to serve you better.

Regards,

xxx
United Airlines Customer Relations

--so anyone has any idea what I can expect from this "travel certificate"?

Hi Batson Creek,

Wonder whether any of the rest has gotten something yet. I just wrote them again, will wait for a response, but if not, I will start getting more ... assertive... as you suggested. Thanks!

Thing is I actually bought a discounted Euro 109 Last Minute offer ticket, so my bargaining power is not so great...

Cheers, mate.

Bullshit. Whatever you paid for the ticket, they chose to sell it at that price. You have the same rights as the guy in the next seat who paid €600 for the honour of sitting next to you.

Have you at least got a copy of what you sent? If you're just writing on the webpage via a contact form, your bargaining power is even less because you have no proof of how many times you have told them about the problem. Imagine you don't get a reply this time - you might want to threaten them with the press. If you have no copies of your complaints, they never happened...

Actually, it IS via a webpage contact form. They do give me an immediate e-mail reply with a incident tracking number though. My strategy is to give them a chance to be nice to be before I become more assertive/aggressive.

Is there a time limit to how long after the incident I must complain? Or can I afford to give them time to be nice?

Two weeks and you haven't heard from them apart from an automated number generated by a computer. Do you think they are having a board meeting on the subject? Perhaps they've sent an e-mail round Lufthansa asking people how much compensation would be appropriate in your case? Perhaps they are having an in-depth discussion about how to analyse the results of the round robin e-mail. Or perhaps they have forgotten you.

@Batson Creek - appreciate your comments! But what would you be doing in my place?

Thanks!

And why are you being nice to an airline? It is a corporate entity that seriously pissed you off by delaying you because one of their planes couldn't fly because of a "mechanical fault", and you want to be "nice" to them?

Phone them. Start with the CEO's office. He will not pick up the phone of course, but they always have a bunch of bum-boys who fend these sort of questions away from the Big Guy. Be clear in what happened and clear as to what outcome you want. Alternatively, a letter to the Big Cheese, well typed and laid out with a clear message. Nothing over stroppy, but clear in who was at fault and how much you have been inconvenienced.

On 19 December my flight to London was delayed by 8hours and on arrtival in London all flights on to Edinburgh were cancelled and we were put up in a hotel on the other side of London (and had to pay for the taxi ride). Managed to rebook on another flight the next day but that was cancelled and BA told me they would not be able to get me oon to a flight until Boxing Day so I got the train instead at my own cost. On top of that they lost my luggage for ten days.

Following their advice I made a claim for cancelled flights, lost baggage, taxi and train fairs, cost of replacement clothes and toiletries. All well and good I thought until I received THIS from BA njust now:


Now, the thing is, they have actually already sent me a couple of small cheques so I was a little confused and called the customer service line for clarification. I was told unequivocally that my train fair would not be refunded and notr would I receive any compensation for the lost bagage because it was not BA's fault that the weather was like that. They have however, refunded the taxi fair (as this was promised in writing on the day) and the cost of clothes and toiletrias which I sent receipts in.

Can anyone tell me whether they are cotrrect that I am ineligible for anything more?

A friend tells me that as other operatoprs were functioning all routes in a diminished service on the 19th and 20th Dec, BA alone made an operational decision to cancel internal fligghts to give preference to long haul. As such this would constitute an ooperational decision on their part and they could not hide behind the bad weather excuse.

Are there any lawyers who know whether my friend is correct?

Topics merged by admin

BTC you are legible for $20 per kilo for lost, delayed or damaged baggage. They will fob you off as much as possible. Check the back of a BA boarding card & you'll probably see it printed there too! What I did with Swiss was ask for the CEO's email address so that I could point out to him that the company needed to reprint all their boarding cards!

Thanks for the reminder too, I've gotta fax my receipts off to LH too

thanks Jeckel, that's what I thought. But they told me that airlines are now bound by the "Montreal Agreement" and that means that no payments would be made to me for lost baggage. Does anyone jknow what this agreement is?

Have a look at the euroconsumer website which seems to give more details

that site looks really helpful Jeckel and I have emailed their contact. I also sent a very stiff email reply to BA. Will keep you posted what happens.

have just read this in REGULATION (EC) No 261/2004 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 11 February 2004:


Does that really mean I am not liable for any compensation?

Nah, what it means is you suddenly don't understand what "meteorological conditions" mean & ignore it

they have now refunded GBP 176.64 for clothes and GBP 150 for taxi and train - which accounts for all my out of pocket expenses. Guess that is okay. But what do other people think?

That's pretty good, but you did have to work pretty hard to get it. I guess airlines assume that most people won't bother and that compensating the odd person here and there isn't going to break the bank.

Just found a link with more details about flight delays and your legal rights.

LINK,

I got a travel certificate worth 150 $- not bad for 4 hrs