Applying for visa or permit for freelance work

I've been living and working in Germany for about 2 1/2 years. For most of this time I've worked in bars. I've had nothing but problems from my case manager at the KVR since I first registered. After finding a job, the owner of the bar and I went to the KVR to apply for my visa, this is when the fun really began. At first he tried to tell me that I couldn't get it because of the high unemployment rate and that a German should get the job. When my boss said he needed a native English speaker as it is an expat bar he replied that most Germans speak enough English to work in a bar and that wasn't a good enough reason. Now this may be true but my boss should be able to choose who he wants to work at his bar, shouldnt he? Long story short I had to apply twice and it took 9 months to get the visa.

I now speak reasonable German and have been looking for other work. I've found 2 companies that have offered me jobs on a freelance basis. Problem is I don't have a freelance visa. I went to the KVR a week ago with my German girlfriend to find out how I go about applying for a freelance visa and was met with nothing but negativity. As I was there just before xmas to renew my bar visa I was greeted with "What? You again? Do you think I only work for Australians?". When I explained that the job requires native English speakers he replied "there are millions of other English speakers in Munich. You don't have to do it". He then said "What? Don't you want to be a barman anymore?" When my girlfriend replied "He wants to find a better job" his reply was "It doesn't matter what he wants, it's what we want to give him". He then said that there was no application form for the visa and that I had to write a essay stating why I thought I should be eligible for the visa. I left the room and spoke to someone from a different department and they said that there was an application form but I could only get it from my case manager.

This is not the first time he has made remarks about my nationality. When I was applying for my first visa he said "Australians get a lot more privileges here in Germany than Germans get in Australia if you know what I mean and you should be greatful to have a visa at all". I was also advised by another person to marry my German girlfriend to solve the problem. That would work but I didn't expect to get that advice at the KVR. This leads me to one of two conclusions. Either he applied for a visa in Australia and was knocked back or an Aussie slept with his girlfriend. I wanted to complain but some German friends have said that it would be a waste of time as they stick together. This was made obvious when I asked yet another person for the form I needed and was told there was a form but I needed to get it from my case manager. When I said that he had told me there was no form this person simply said "Oh well then there is no form".

Are there any Aussies/Kiwis/South Africans/Canadians (These countries all have the same visa regulations) out there with a freelance visa? Any advise on how to get it?
The secound person I spoke to said if I knew any Aussies/Kiwis/South Africans/Canadians with a freelance visa I could use them as an example in my application.Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Barfly

Hmmm.

I have been known to rant on this topic, but will quell that urge here and just give you the short version.

1. (I know, I hate to say it but...) You are in Germany, not Australia. They do not even have to let you (us) stay here if they do not want to, you are a second class citzen, get used to it or go somewhere where you are wanted.
2. You (I know because I am the same way) seem to have a bit of an attitude. Whether it is you or them is irrelevant. They are in charge, like it or not, you have to eat what they feed you.
3. I do not believe there is a form, I think it is on a case by case basis and you basically have to develop a business plan. I have also been denied a self employed permit since 1.1.2005 when the rules changed and there seems to be no easy way around it.

One idea which I am also consdering. Do you know anyone (girlfriends folks for example) who lives outside Munich? If so, perhaps register there and then use their KVR and it might slip through, espeically if the gf´s parents go with you. Who knows, could work.

Good luck.

And, yes, I was also told by the KVR that I should get married...

Since you received contradicting information I advise innocently/ignorantly asking a supervisor which one was correct as you are now confused but want to stick to the rules.

Not an unreasonable statement, and no different here than in most countries.


Again, correct. The ex-pat bar would have to prove that ONLY a native speaker would be qualified. That might work for an Explorer's Club branch but it won't hold water for some local.


Only within the limits of the law. Germany has high unemployment. The first concern is to get citizens working.


For the same reasons as before.


It's easier to prove that such work might require native speakers but there are an awful lot of us already here. There are also a lot of Germans who have lived in English-speaking countries for years and whose English is better than that of a lot of this board's posters. The only way a freelance Erlaubnis could restrict you enough to keep you from taking other jobs Germans "should" get would make it so restrictive it'd be almost worthless, and require a lot of effort on the Beamter's part.


A number of processes may require you to write an essay even if there's a form. It's up to the caseworker to decide if an essay is appropriate. I had to write one to get permission for extended leave from the country (=>90 days).


It would. That's also simple paperwork for them.

woof.

Freelance? They recently changed the rules. Forget about it. I went in and asked them about it (and I have a fantastic KVR lady) and she just told me not to even bother applying, the new regulations make it nion impossible to obtain

What's all that about? Aussie and NZ are usually the same on those rules and in that case this is all shit! My german boyfriend might be moving back home with me just because it is sooo much hassle for me to work here, and all we have to do back home is prove we have been living together a year, not even married! Ah I hate the KVR!

By the way, what letter does your last name start with?

Yes, leave footprints on your caseworker's scalp. That's sure to make him want help you even further in future.

woof.

Maybe my frustration may have come off as attitude. I have been very polite to the guy every time I've seen him. I've listened to what he's said and provided everything he has asked for with a smile (He asked me for my last 3 months pay slips and Insurance receits before he would renew my current visa). I also understand that they dont have to let me stay and that a German can do my job. My main piont is that I have Aussie/Kiwi friend who dont have any of the problems that I have. Of course it depends on the person you deal with.

My last name starts with C

Ah I knew it! you have the same jerky people I do!

All I want is to know how to apply. If I get knocked back then so be it but it would be nice to get some info on how to start. I dont mind writing an essay if thats what they require. I have letters from both the companies stating that they require native English speakers.

Ok, hide behind someone else and then pop your information from higher circles on the caseworker. He'll never realize that you were behind the innocent inquiry to the supervisor.
Sheesh, if everyone were afraid of consequences nothing constructive would get done.

Some people at the KVR def' make it harder than others. Fair enough to try and make the best of a bad situation though! Feck, if we all gave up and went where we were 'wanted' there wouldn't be anyone on this forum.

I was granted a freelancer permit this past year after 4 months of a lot of paperwork and rude KVR people too. I also had to deal with the Finanzamt & the IHK (which deals with people having their own business, which obviously a freelancer does not have). I'm Canadian and have been here for 4.5 years. I was first told that I could get a freelancer permit no problem after being here for 5 years, BUT I could prove my job was very rare and the offices/ companies whom wanted to hire me NEEDED an English person now.

So I think it comes down to a few things: 1) how long you have been here (2) that your job is rare & you will speak English in it (therefore you are not taking a job away from a German) (3) a lot of paperwork and patience.

My guy at the KRV was also a jerk, but in the end it's not his choice (or any other rude person working in those offices at the KRV). He told me over and over, "No impossible" when I told him that I wanted to be a freelancer. But I told him I was going to apply anyway, show me what to do, where to go, give me more paperwork... it was hard, but it worked.

Good luck and take a deep breath. They don't make it easy...

Was that before or after the law change tho??

When was the law changed? I got my freelance permit in mid-November

When was the law changed? I got my freelance permit mid-Nov 2006

@Strawberrystar, very interesting info. Can you provide us with any further details? Type of job you are doing; names/numbers of forms that were required; names of people you dealt with - I know, they do not have names And the five year thing, does that have something to do with getting permanent residence and then being allowed to work self employed?

BTW, my last name starts with L and my people are horrible as well.

My job: Kinesiologist (alternative medicine), it also lists that I can teach English (as I'm a certified teacher).

Shit, I can't remember all the forms. Or maybe I don't remember beacuse I don't want to! All in German so I had to have colleagues/ friend fill them out for me, because it's hard German to understand! You must have someone who speaks German to help you, and best to have a tax person help you with filling out the money issues & how you will bill people, use taxes, pay taxes, etc. You have to be careful that you write the correct thing. But here's what I can help with:

- first at KRV (upstairs 1 level from the lovely visa people), I had to register as a freelancer (they have a list of jobs that you can do). This form is called: GEWERBEANMEDLUNG. This section has something to do with private businesses. You get a paper stating you have registered, which gives you a freelance number & the offical registration. This paper is given to you immediately, but it looks like anyone can do this & doesn't mean you can do it. You are just registering.

- (go back downstairs) at KRV give them this paper along with prove you have: health insurance, presently paying into a retirement fund, and a list of companies that wanted to hire you as a freelancer (a formal letter needs to come from the companies as well). Both the inteperter and the KRV guy will say, "Oh no freelancer. Not easy. Can't do it." Just insist they put your application through. Remember to use the word "freibruflich" not "selbstandig", which I still don't understand the difference but in German there is! They will probably give you about 20 pages of forms to fill out (no kidding). Here they have inteperters, so ask for one! They usually are the ones at the desk, if not Mr-KRV-guy can call one. Be persistant... next my case went to the IHK.

- I got a letter from the IHK stating for me to prove what I am doing- list all the jobs I have lined up, how much money I will except to make, and what I plan to sell (freelancers can't sell anything, so be careful). Here they have to check how much money you will be bring in (so you don't go on unemployment insurance) and to clarify the difference between my self-employed and being a freelancer. THEY are the ones who gave the final answer to the KRV. I didn't have to go down to an office, all communications were done in letters & emails. This took about 4-6 weeks to get an answer.

- Finanzamt: I had to register for a tax number. My just came, so it took about 3 months. You need this to be able to work as it goes on your freelancer invoices. Again, another 14 pages to fill out. Same shit as KRV asked you. They also wanted a copy of my apartment lease. No intepreters available, and just as rude as people at KRV.

It's very painful and very frustrating. I hope this has helped. Let me know if I can help with anything more... Cheers & GOOD LUCK.

EXCELLENT INFO!! Thanks!

This may not help everyone but it sure is one more step towards unravelling the bureaucratic nightmare that is Germany.

I would guess the diff. between self employed and freelancer has to do with the selling thing. Freelance journalist, teacher, etc. Skill-based employment as opposed to self employed where one is defined more as a `businessman´.

I got my freelance permit the same way as strawberrystar last may. I think this topic has been extensively covered on TT, I also wrote quite a bit on it...can't be bothered to look it all up again. but what strawberrystar said, i had to do the same i think, basically. and that whole bit about the law changing is correct, it happened in 2005 i think, but you can still pull it off. it just became harder. and it is totally case by case. you just have to have a detailed resume in German and also a "business plan" of where you are going with it, in German. It also helps to have your future employers' letter of recommendation or whatever. I had more problems with the tax number, as they would not give it to me for months and reviewed my case at the finanzamt forever, we even had to go to a steuerberater (who sorted it with them thank god).

I should mention that i was doing nothing special, in terms of skills, just free lance writing and customer service stuff. They actaully stamped my freelance permit into my passport detail by detail of what is stated on my business plan, i have two pages in my passport all dedicated to one project. And I am under the impression that if before they would give you a freelance permit, for say, office work or bar work, now they only do it for those couple projects/employers you mention. Should you get more offers, you have to go back to the KVR and get an approval, even if it still office work. Oh and my permit was only good for 6 mo, until Nov. I believe. Can't tell you what happens next as I am in a full-time German class now, and my lovely BF and I are getting married, so all this hell will be over

Here's a slightly new spin on this topic, sort of..

What if I have an employer back home (Canada) who is willing to let me work for their company still on a remote/web-based basis and I simply want to live in Germany while doing this. Any thoughts? What are the rules for this kind of thing and how can this affect the possibility of being a perminent or semi-permininent resident?

I'm in the same scenario with a US company. They have agreed to hire me as a consultant and let me work via email on their business plans. I am filing for self employed status in the US, but not sure how to handle things on this end in Hamburg. I sent an email to the Chamber of Commerce a couple weeks ago asking for advice, but haven't received a response yet. I asked my local case worker for help and she keeps telling me that the company has to sponsor my visa to work locally. But I'm not working locally. Just remotely. And they are not my employer. They are technically my client. She doesn't understand what I need, so I'm looking for help else where. Let me know if you get any updates. I'll keep digging on my end.

@Payola - any updates?

I'm a ruby on rails developer doing freelance work in Munich. I'm on a working holiday visa this year - but it expires in December - so I think I'll get onto some kind of extension for next year. I'll basically keep doing freelance work for german businesses here and a bit of remote work for my company back in nz.

What's the best way to start the visa process? Rock up to the KVR and smile nicely? Or can someone recommend a specialist?

I have been through all the threads related to the freelance work permits...and still so many things aren't clear...

Is there someone in Munich who's just got his/her freelance work permit done? I was advised by one of the visa consultants to apply for a freelance work permit (my situation is very complicated).

I'd like to get in touch with anyone who knows the ins and outs of this...before actually asking the consultant to go ahead. Please do get back whoever is the best with this!

My life's a big mess as of now!!!

Thanx,

I got my freelance permit back in November in Munich... PM if you want some more info other than my previous threads.

A NZ friend of mine just got made redundant from her job in Finland after working and living there for 2.5 years. She really wants to be able to stay in Europe and ideally would like to work as a self-employed contractor. She is happy to work and live anywhere in the EU. From this and other threads it seems that it would be practically impossible for her to start up in Germany as self employed without having lived and worked here for some years first, and even after that it would still be very difficult. Does anyone have any advice or information that might help her? Also from reading through the threads there seems to be a difference between being self-employed and freelancing - can anyone explain? Thanks in advance for any help!

@ Benn

Just getting back to this thread. But no updates since my last post. I kept getting the same response from my visa advisor. "Your employer in the US still has to follow the process for a regular work visa. Which means prove that you could do the job over a German or EU citizen".

I got so frustrated I gave up asking questions and just went ahead on my own. I'll work it out with my tax accountant at the end of the year. But other ex-pats tell me to keep fighting. The process isn't easy but it can be conquered.

I was wondering about a couple of things. Are there fees when registering as a freelancer, and if so how much?
If you get approved and more people want to hire you as a freelancer do you have to go back and get approved to work for them? Or is that it and you can just take any additional freelance job as offered?

I just got information from my local Ausländeramt (not München), that a freelance visa for a US citizen will only be issued if he invested 500.000 Euro or created 5 jobs in Germany (and no exceptions).
I am asking for my friend from the US, who wants to come here for the summer (2 months), stay with me and work as a freelance dance/fitness/personal trainer.
I've heard that the Munich KVR are less strict and decide on a single case base, if he has letters from clients who want to hire him. If this is really the case, he could register in Munich for the time being and apply at the KVR.

He has international health insurance, enough funding, and his own company in the US.
Could any non-EU citizen tell me their experience with the Munich authorities with freelance permits?
Thanks for any help.

"1. (I know, I hate to say it but...) You are in Germany, not Australia. They do not even have to let you (us) stay here if they do not want to, you are a second class citzen, get used to it or go somewhere where you are wanted. "

What? How is an Australian considered a second class citizen in Germany? Please don't write stupid comments like this.