In case it's of interest and you haven't heard, the City Council announced that they have put their much-publicized plans to switch over to Linux on hold.
Here's a link, unfortunately only in German to Heise.de
Crosslink by admin: Munich's Limux / Munix Project
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Munich switches to Linux
Computer system used by the city council
Topsy
Check out this Windows-To-Linux Migration Hits Speed Bump In Munich at Linux Online
The migration isn't terminated, merely put on go slow until IP and Patent issues relating to Free and Open Source Software are understood and any risks arising from this mitigated.
This link Linux potentially infringes 283 patents points up the [potential] problem.
Check out this Windows-To-Linux Migration Hits Speed Bump In Munich at Linux Online
The migration isn't terminated, merely put on go slow until IP and Patent issues relating to Free and Open Source Software are understood and any risks arising from this mitigated.
This link Linux potentially infringes 283 patents points up the [potential] problem.
and they need people to do it..
Groklaw - Munich needs Linux experts
Groklaw - Munich needs Linux experts
Munich has chosen 2 local German software companies, Softcon and Gonicus to install it LINUX system.
They will be using the Debian distribution. See here also.
QUOTE
The City of Munich has selected two local German software companies to equip all 14,000 computers in its public administration with Linux and other open source office applications.
They will be using the Debian distribution. See here also.
NOT SuSE? That's a bit of a surprise. At this German gov't center SuSE is THE distro. Mentioning any other nearly causes laughter.
I think Debian is a more free-in-the-sense-of-the-air distrobution, whereas Suse is a commercial entity. Not really sure what difference it makes.
Well the only advantage to SuSE would be getting their software support. Even if they were getting support from elsewhere they would be still stuck paying for it with SuSE.
Since other companies are offering support, it makes sense to use a totally free distro like debian, so you only have to pay support costs once. Debian is better anyway. SuSE was always just a redhat clone like mandrake.
Since other companies are offering support, it makes sense to use a totally free distro like debian, so you only have to pay support costs once. Debian is better anyway. SuSE was always just a redhat clone like mandrake.
The company I work for also uses the external company Softcon for a lot of work. If they are installing it, who know's what the final result will be ! I may not be what they expect !
Suse, is nothing but German Crap software, which is bloated beyond belief... I can't believe people actually use it... It's like the "Windows" of the Linux world...
The American Equiv of Suse is Redhat..
And on the other side, Debian & the *BSD's are some of the fastest, nonbloated
distro's going.
The American Equiv of Suse is Redhat..
And on the other side, Debian & the *BSD's are some of the fastest, nonbloated
distro's going.
QUOTE
The American Equiv of Suse is Redhat..
Dont knock it... they are re-locating to Dornach..
If you loose your job... there is another potential employee...
Who knows in this dog eat dog world..
Grins
QUOTE (Grinner @ Apr 19 2005, 12:07 am)
Dont knock it... they are re-locating to Dornach..
Where's Dornach?
By Riem.
its here... *points at ground* (East side of Munich, by the S6)
edit... errr that will be the S2 now.. my bad
edit... errr that will be the S2 now.. my bad
I have to agree with Darkknight here. I use SuSE extensively at work and it's ok, but definitely bloated and their support is expensive and it sucks. Their website is close to useless most of the time.
For obvious reasons SuSE Linux seems to be the distro of choice here in Germany. I've yet to work at a company that will even consider using BSD in production (pure ignorance generally as it's much more stable than Linux for many uses). Goes to show how much the Linux hype influences management. Haven't used Debian much, but I've heard it's the best for experienced users who don't need a lot of extra crap and want a stable OS (though not the most cutting edge wrt versions).
For obvious reasons SuSE Linux seems to be the distro of choice here in Germany. I've yet to work at a company that will even consider using BSD in production (pure ignorance generally as it's much more stable than Linux for many uses). Goes to show how much the Linux hype influences management. Haven't used Debian much, but I've heard it's the best for experienced users who don't need a lot of extra crap and want a stable OS (though not the most cutting edge wrt versions).
QUOTE
they are re-locating to Dornach
What? Who are relocating to Dornach?
Ah, ok. I thought ye meant Suse.
@davo
Agreed... But even Debian can be cutting edge... You don't have to
use the stable version, testing is also rocksolid. Don't let the "testing"
name scare ya.. Now SID on the other hand is very UNSTABLE and should NEVER be used in a production Env.
Agreed... But even Debian can be cutting edge... You don't have to
use the stable version, testing is also rocksolid. Don't let the "testing"
name scare ya.. Now SID on the other hand is very UNSTABLE and should NEVER be used in a production Env.
It will never happen...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/06/linux_migration/
That's the trouble with this whole Linux/Open Source thing, it is a massive step backwards for the poor old users.
Sounds like the users at Munich Town Hall are at last being heard.
Now the Politicians need to work out a face saving U-turn.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/06/linux_migration/
QUOTE
Munich's city administrators' much-discussed migration to Linux has been delayed until 2006, according to reports, because of an additional pilot phase that was not accounted for in the original plans.
Project leader Peter Hoffman told CNet that as planning progressed, he and his team realised that the pilot phase, which will now run through the first half of 2006, was "more important than we first thought and should last longer". This means that the project will finish at least a year behind schedule, and a full three years after administrators first elected to shift to open source.
Project leader Peter Hoffman told CNet that as planning progressed, he and his team realised that the pilot phase, which will now run through the first half of 2006, was "more important than we first thought and should last longer". This means that the project will finish at least a year behind schedule, and a full three years after administrators first elected to shift to open source.
That's the trouble with this whole Linux/Open Source thing, it is a massive step backwards for the poor old users.
Sounds like the users at Munich Town Hall are at last being heard.
Now the Politicians need to work out a face saving U-turn.
Looks like they finally got around to start migrating the desktops yesterday.
And only vaguely related heres some (fictitious yet funny) experiences related to switching the other way.
And only vaguely related heres some (fictitious yet funny) experiences related to switching the other way.
QUOTE (jivedancer @ Aug 4 2004, 1:37 pm)
This link Linux potentially infringes 283 patents points up the [potential] problem.
Actually, it's now much less than 293 violations.
QUOTE
IBM had asked the court to throw out 198 of the 293 items of evidence SCO filed with the court under seal in January...
All in all, IBM's motion was denied for 11 of the 198 items it tried to throw out, leaving 106 items of evidence in front of the court in total.
All in all, IBM's motion was denied for 11 of the 198 items it tried to throw out, leaving 106 items of evidence in front of the court in total.
From this article:
http://www.cbronline.com/article_news.asp?...D9-0B594213DE37
And if you have really been following the IBM/SCO case you would know that SCO doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning.
They are just delaying, stalling, and pulling shit outta there ass the keep the case going. SCO is almost out of $ and once that's gone their
lawers are gonna walk, just you watch.. They have already been delisted from the stock market last year. They have also been warned
by the judge several time for the above actions.
Have a read Here for full IBM/SCO coverage.
They are just delaying, stalling, and pulling shit outta there ass the keep the case going. SCO is almost out of $ and once that's gone their
lawers are gonna walk, just you watch.. They have already been delisted from the stock market last year. They have also been warned
by the judge several time for the above actions.
Have a read Here for full IBM/SCO coverage.
From the article Kza posted:
I think that is a load of horseshit. There is NOTHING that runs on Windows which cannot run under Linux, either as a re-written application or using a Windows emulation (like Crossover Plugin). Sounds like a cop out to me.
QUOTE
A full migration to Linux is "unrealistic," Schiessl said. Some hardware and software products in the public administration will continue to require Windows and some, particularly in the area of desktop publishing, will continue to require systems from Apple Computer, he said.
I think that is a load of horseshit. There is NOTHING that runs on Windows which cannot run under Linux, either as a re-written application or using a Windows emulation (like Crossover Plugin). Sounds like a cop out to me.
Now if you take Solaris you dont have those issues (with patents)
It seems that many want to keep MS-$ due to ability to play games
It seems that many want to keep MS-$ due to ability to play games
QUOTE (Darkknight @ Sep 22 2006, 1:14 pm)
And if you have really been following the IBM/SCO case you would know that SCO doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of winning.
They are just delaying, stalling, and pulling shit outta there ass the keep the case going. SCO is almost out of $ and once that's gone their
lawers are gonna walk, just you watch.. They have already been delisted from the stock market last year. They have also been warned
by the judge several time for the above actions.
They are just delaying, stalling, and pulling shit outta there ass the keep the case going. SCO is almost out of $ and once that's gone their
lawers are gonna walk, just you watch.. They have already been delisted from the stock market last year. They have also been warned
by the judge several time for the above actions.
I agree completely. The entire SCO lawsuit is just a failed attempt to try to raise revenue, in my opinion.
QUOTE (HEM @ Sep 22 2006, 1:17 pm)
Now if you take Solaris you dont have those issues (with patents)
It seems that many want to keep MS-$ due to ability to play games
It seems that many want to keep MS-$ due to ability to play games
The problem with any Windows to Linux conversion will always come from the user area. People, in general, dislike change. Non-technical people who are used to using Windows typically get their collective panties in a bunch when asked to change how they have to do things.
The Linux desktop then becomes vital in convincing the users that the change is worthwhile. While not as advanced a few years ago, I think that KDE and Gnome have come along far enough for any Windows user to take to the change easily.
I've got GNOME on a Solaris 10 workstation at this moment...
GNOME on a Sun? What happened to the joint HP/Sun CDE (Common Desktop Environment)?
I prefer KDE myself, but only for the simple reason that it's easier to build. My Linux PC at home is custom built, you see...
I prefer KDE myself, but only for the simple reason that it's easier to build. My Linux PC at home is custom built, you see...
I switched to gnome from kde when I switched from debian to ubuntu, and I think I prefer gnome as a user, especially as it integrates so well in ubuntu. KDE comes with more stuff though and is nicer to code for, at least with the Qt tools etc. Still use heaps of KDE programs under gnome though, like k3b for example, no gnome burner seems to be able to write cd-text for example.
QUOTE (JerseyBoy @ Sep 22 2006, 1:47 pm)
What happened to the joint HP/Sun CDE (Common Desktop Environment)?
Discontinued, for something better After Solaris 2.8 / 8.0
Solaris 10 seems to offer you CDE or GNOME...
I'm not programming for it - just using & its OK...
I'm not programming for it - just using & its OK...
Reading on slashdot.org today, there was an article about the limux project, and the one on Vienna too.
Vienna has apparently decided to go back to windows, vista in fact, and it'll cost the city 8 million for the kindergarten computers, which apparently need to run MS IE for some application or other than won't work in firefox.
Munich on the other hand, is doing REALLY well - not. From what I've been reading, in 5 years, they've managed to migrate a thoroughly lame 7% of the computers over to linux, about 1,000 machines, and one comment on computerworld.co.uk suggests that upto 85% of these linux machines are just running windows emulators anyway.
At this rate, they'll be done with the "upgrade" by about 2070 or so.
Vienna has apparently decided to go back to windows, vista in fact, and it'll cost the city 8 million for the kindergarten computers, which apparently need to run MS IE for some application or other than won't work in firefox.
Munich on the other hand, is doing REALLY well - not. From what I've been reading, in 5 years, they've managed to migrate a thoroughly lame 7% of the computers over to linux, about 1,000 machines, and one comment on computerworld.co.uk suggests that upto 85% of these linux machines are just running windows emulators anyway.
At this rate, they'll be done with the "upgrade" by about 2070 or so.
And thats what happens when the people responsible for the migration didn't do all the required research into just what the project should do,
and hire a clueless contractor to do it.. Add to that the typical German buracuracy and its bound to fail.
and hire a clueless contractor to do it.. Add to that the typical German buracuracy and its bound to fail.
QUOTE (don_riina @ Jun 5 2008, 1:21 pm)
Vienna has apparently decided to go back to windows, vista in fact, and it'll cost the city 8 million for the kindergarten computers, which apparently need to run MS IE for some application or other than won't work in firefox.
SO they really should have been pressurising the application people to make their application behave properly rather than cave into propritary practices...
QUOTE (don_riina @ Jun 5 2008, 1:21 pm)
Munich on the other hand, is doing REALLY well - not. From what I've been reading, in 5 years, they've managed to migrate a thoroughly lame 7% of the computers over to linux, about 1,000 machines, and one comment on computerworld.co.uk suggests that upto 85% of these linux machines are just running windows emulators anyway.
At this rate, they'll be done with the "upgrade" by about 2070 or so.
At this rate, they'll be done with the "upgrade" by about 2070 or so.
A really cool solution is to use SunRays - stateless systems with no noise on your desk - and a decent server behind it. My brother (in UK) has had a lot of success persuading customer to go down this road - even works in Windows environment as you can connect a Windows farm. Apparently many data centre managers like this because people tend to get around data centre policies and install apps on their local PC & then claim they cannot be upgraded/replaced & heaven help them if disk breaks...
QUOTE (HEM @ Jun 5 2008, 2:03 pm)
they really should have been pressurising the application people to make their application behave properly
I myself cannot believe it cannot be made to work with Firefox, there are plugins to cover pretty much anything I would have thought. I think the supplier of the software has said they're planning on making it firefox compatible in 2009.
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