Germany considers putting video gamers in jail

I've been reading up about the proposed legislation to put developers, distributers and even PLAYERS of violent games in jail.

More info here... German minister wants jail time for violent game creators, distributors …and players

From what I have read, the legislation is based on the thoughts of a few politicians and no official research or investigation has been done here to actually prove the connection between violent games and their affect on the minds of games players. Incidentally, any investigations that have ever been carried out in this have proved no connection.

Does anyone else know anything about this ridiculous situation? Does anyone with a knowledge of German or EU law know if its even possible to enforce such a thing? I mean seriously? Putting people in jail for playing games? What next?

I'm quite worried about this as I've been playing games for years and regularly import from the UK the types of games that are banned here. I believe I should at least have the choice as to wether or not I buy such games. How would such a law even be enforced?

I would like to hear some of your thoughts on this guys!

Related earlier topic: Germany considers banning violent video games

B-E-C-K-S-T-E-I-N.

It's self publicity n his part.
This is the guy who wants police helicopters hovvering over marienplatz to stop pickpockets.

does this involve snipers perchance? or people with loudspeakers :- "you there,pickpocketing,yes you,we can seeee you".

and yeah, i've been reading that other topic too but felt maybe i should create a new thread based specifically on this new proposed law as its no longer just about the shooting and the banning of games.

Oh snipers for sure. Usually go for a shot in the leg.

If the suspected pickpocket looks like an Ausländer they'll have the cops that have to wear glasses like coke bottles and have a nervous twitch doing the shooting.

Seriously, as well as being a homophobic prick, this guy personifies the obscession with "Recht and Ordnung".
At the end of the line, he's the guy responsible for the way that so called Ausländer are treated in Bavaria, by the police on the street, at the KVR and passing immigration at the airport or frontier.

If Stoiber falls, there's a fair chance he might become Premier of the state!

Good lord! Methinks if thats the case I will be returning to Ireland, lest I be put in jail for pixel-murder.

It would be almost impossible to enforce. There have been a number of video games that were changed for the German market either by not showing blood or having zombies instead of people, so gamers just get imports or download "blood patches".

There could be all sorts of fun as there are stealth games that allow you to complete missions by non lethal means, so would the game be banned or would you have to play it in a certain way?

yea exactly what i was thinking. would they put you in jail for "possession" of a violent game, or does it have to be proved you were shooting at the characters in the game. whos to say you weren't just having a peaceful walk around the game?

Depends how they frame the law.

Pocession alone (say) of child pornography is enough to prompt prosecution whether you have watched it or not.
Pocessors of child pornogrpahy don't advertise the fact (much) but they are caught.
The police trail chat rooms, fora, observe who is buying from who, cross check ISPs, ask the banks etc etc etc.

It's also used as a warning. They lock up X people, it might stop the people who are also doing it, but might put off those who were thinking of doing it.

They will also try and prevent people resident in Germany obtaining it elsewhere.
Even within the EU, customs still operate to stop the flow of certain goods, see also the debate on Nazi symbols on the other thread.
Another example is how there is preasure to stop coffee shops in places like Venlo or Eindhoven selling cannabis to people who are obviously German.

I was really talking about the outlandish suggestion that you could be prosecuted for "violence acts against human like images". Another area is the definition of a game, could they likes of "Call of Duty" and "Medal of Honour" claim to be interactive historical multi-media experiences.

Yeah sounds bizarre doesn't it.

But, remember the point of the law would be not nescessarily to lock people up for it but try and turn off the supply and spread of this material.

And remember that "Menschen Würde" is a big thing in Germany. When BigBrother started on TV, some people tried to claim it was "unconstitutional" and shite.

the thing that gets me is that 59% of germans have agreed to such a ban! most likely due to the rags using "killer games" etc as a selling point for a week. are these 59% aware that the connection between violent games and violent acts has been disproved several several times? the whole ignorant glory hounding politicans/media band wagon thing really annoys me.

I suspect this is more a case of political grandstanding. Once the media lose interest the political will starts to fade as the difficulties and consequences become known, although another incident may give it fresh impetus.

Take the polls with a pinch of salt Peteb.

yea good point, i really should!

Sounds a bit like a pogram program to rid the Fatherland of undesirable elements.

Funny how these traditional Bavarians like Beckstein never suggest banning guns, which would almost certainly solve this problem more effectively than banning video games.

Has it?

yes, theres been a lot of studies done in the US in particular regarding the connection of violent games and violent acts, and i did do a little bit of looking around for something to back that up with and found this:

http://www.videogamevoters.org/gamesnotviolence/

just one example there really, and to be honest, probably not the best, and im sure more could be found. some interesting information in there though. but it has to be said they did mention that "as yet" there is no connection.

personally i don't think there is any but that would probably be a biased opinion

Could you claim self defence (the computer opponent attacked me first!) or manslaughter (I lost control of the car while driving around the corner - but I wasn't drinking at the time (don't want to lose your driving licence))?

Actually I note the article phrases it as "cruel or otherwise inhumane acts of violence against humans or humanlike creatures", so I guess even non-lethal violence could be an issue (unless it was humane - I wonder if there are any humane ways of killing someone?). On the other hand, torturing and killing virtual animals shouldn't be a problem.

"22 million German credit cards scanned by police ...in raid on a video gaming ring"

Interesting link above which argues that no causal relationship has been found. Even if some of the resarch is built on shaky foundations a lack of proof is not in itself a disproof.

I looked at the American Psychological Association site and found this

http://www.apa.org/science/psa/sb-anderson.html

My own view is that it is only a minority who are vulnerable to the effects of extremely violent material and censorship brings its own problems but I am keeping my kids away from violent games whether they are legal or not.

At what age children should be allowed access to certain games and who should have the responsibility of controlling that access is a separate issue. I believe the average age for a video game player is early 30s. With console gamers being a bit younger and PC gamers a bit older.

Ok so I was in the wrong thread here, just found the other one. But the two issues are linked in the sense that if possession of a game was illegal then distribution and access to it would be reduced.

Definately kids should be kept away from violent games, and all of those games have ratings on them to advise the parents on this. I will be doing the same with my kids! I think the problem is a lot of parents still see games as "for children" and don't treat the ratings with the same attitude as they do, say, dvd or movies. parents should definately be more educated on the matter i think! although to ban all violent games because of the harmful affects they have on "unstable" characters seems a bit drastic.