All foreigners visiting U.S. to be fingerprinted

Story in today's Observer indicates that US airports are now going to scan and store all ten fingerprints of foreign visitors to US. They already scan two fingerprints, but doing all ten means that they can be stored frever on the FBI criminal database. What do folks think of that?

Just another Big Brother control of a paranoid Govt.. The fun really starts on the 14th..

what happens on the 14th?

And also, what happened to the Democratic Congress? I thought the were against this sor of thing?

I think this is a case of big business pushing the govt. too much. I have it from reliable sources that the fingerprinting software is sold per finger basis and the IT companies pushed for increasing the fingers. The HW companies too thought that this would be great as they will get to sell more storage devices and servers. Also heard that other relational database SW companies are happy with this.

The airport unions are thrilled as the slowing down of clearing passenger time has meant that they get to keep their jobs and recruit more people.

Big Brother yes but Business not the poor Govt.!

The new congress has been in place for about a week now. Do you know any non-dictatorial government that can turn on a dime? Beyond that, I don't care which party the politician is from, s/he is still a politician. How would changing this really win votes?

I personally feel it is unfortunate that my tax money will be spent on this if there is no real security gain, and I'm just waiting for all of the US business travellers to start complaining when other countries start making them stand in line for the same reasons.

It's no biggie for me - my fingerprints are already on store with the FBI - all ten. When I started working for a financial services company, they require it.

Mine are too for other reasons. As well as my photograph.

These measures may be over the top, but who knows for sure? As far as I know, US citizens have not been responsible for any acts of global terrorism (except for the Bush Administration naturally) so there really shouldn't be any reason for other countries to take these kinds of measures.

What about the movie pearl harbor? Those fellows should have been jailed for that.

while I don't doubt software companies have a lobby, it is ludicrous to suggest that a government would willingly compromise civil liberties to this extent on a whim of appeasement to business chums. And sadly this move follows on from Europeans having to offer the US authorities their credit records and email accounts for scrutiny before being allowed to come to the states - and don't try and tell me that was a big business thing too.

All in all, being fingerprinted as a suspected terrorist and being required to provide confidential credit and email histories means I shall e avoiding the USA from now on. I used to visit frequently and still have many friends living there. Now, if I as a friend of the US would consider this now, how many other tourists and busnesses are going to do the same. Big business lobby or no, decisions like this are going to have a big impact on US tourist dollars and cross-border business.

who were Timothy MacVeigh and the Unabomber then? They were at least responsible for acts of terrorism against the US and I believe there are other groups, including Islamic groups, within the USA that the FBI are keeping tabs on.

I agree, however Pearl Harbor was a crime against humanity not an act of global terrorism.
You're talking about American terrorists who blew up other Americans. I can't think of any Americans who have blown up planes in other countries...

@perdido - I agree, but jail would be too lenient for Jerry Bruckheimer and Ben Affleck.

I have no problems with this, but if they think that taking all the finger prints is going to help in fighting global terrorism they are living on cloud nine, its good for hard ware companies who are going to sell many terabytes of storage, only problem being no one will really be able to do an effective search on all the data, Bin Ladin could get printed and it would take a month to discover he had just walked through customs and immigration

I think there is something wrong with that statement and its not the missing letter.

Fingerprinting is in any case useless for detecting would-be terrorists with no previous record of terrorist activities.

I can't be bothered looking up the statistics, but I wonder how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks in, say, the last 6 years (that includes 9/11), and how many have died from shootings, muggings, and other violence in crime-ridden inner-city ghettoes, and whether more lives would be saved if the money being spent on all this screening of travellers were spent on programs to reduce crime and poverty instead?

You won't even notice a difference. What are you expecting? That an application has to be posted in advance when you know your travelling dates and that you then get called in for an interview so ensure your intentions are honourable, knowing that you may get refused an exit permit? Yeah right.

The ten fingerprint rule is a little excessive and will cause much frustration at immigration certainly. Thank goodness my fingerprints are already on file.

This is all getting beyond the joke and if I had the chance I would definitely tell them what I think. Bit US citizens will not notice the difference and it will not be anything like what the tin hat brigade is making it out to be

Joliet Jake is right about one thing. This is just the kind of stupid law that will never get changed by politicians taking up the torch; maybe by lawsuits from human rights organizations.

But I doubt very much that American business travelers will be called upon to stand in similar lines for fingerprinting in other countries. Who else but the US would want to go to the trouble and expense for such a futile effort?

Welcome to The United States of America, where even as a businessman you will be treated like a common criminal upon entry.

Fuck 'em I say, and fuck their insult. There's plenty enough business without the USA, and their business is shrinking at an incredible rate anyway. I pay a huge amount of tax, and I refuse to be treated like a common criminal by anybody. This stupidity throws all presumption of innocence out on its ear. I ain't going, and I know a few more businessman that I have spoken to about this idiotic ruse, that will also turn their backs on, wait for it... The Land of The Free.

If it were up to me, I'd insist that the European Union install radio microchips up the arse of every American upon entry, and make the microchips emit a loud 'Ping' once every five minutes so that you know there is one about. Start with all diplomatic (and I use the word advisedly), military and government personnel with the test program (where the microchip is inserted using the tried and tested 'Six Lace Holes' method) and see how they fuckin' like it.

called tit for tat. You go and make certain requirments for countries citizens travelling to your country, and they turn around an make you do the same. I have no issues with it, but feel its fair for the other countries to set up the same procedures as the US.

Listen... You either put everyone in the same boat and do this fingerprinting business or you don't and you implement racial profiling. Take your pick.

This isn't exactly something hot off the press as this measure came out in September and applies to all visitors, not just Britons, so if other countries were to do the same thing exclusively with Americans and not all visitors themselves, it would indeed be discriminatory and petty. I don't do forensics, so I don't know how much of a difference this really makes to be honest.

I don't fuckin' care. I'm not being treated like a common criminal. The USA can stick its business where the sun don't shine. Plenty more around. China's the place... and they don't treat you like a criminal when you want to do business with them.

Listen JW, you go on and on and fuckin' on about Communists, and The Stalin era, blah, blah, fuckin' blah. And you just don't see that the USA is slowly drifting exactly towards where you say that you are against. Incarceration without representation and trial, extraordinary redition, gulags (Gitmo), illegal occupation, torture, eavesdropping, and now fingerprinting everybody entering the country. Face it man, your country IS becoming U.S.S.A. You'll be having those big military parades up Pennsyl-fuckin'-vania Avenue next, Comrade Patriot Winnfield.

Let it go you two, lets argue about something we can progress on. Say like will Ed Bob make TT user friendly or will I have to quit this forum because I cannot figure out all these updates.

Not to split hairs Sin, but I think you'll find that the majority of the things you mention apply only to non-US citizens.

But it's another reason not to visit the US, on top of the shocking treatment meted out to visitors by the immigration service, who are amongst the rudest, most arrogant and aggressive on the planet.

Your angry rants are charming in a way as they show that you really have no idea what you're talking about. You bitch about the US yet you want to go do business in a country which epitomizes cut-throat capitalism, where the man in the street is worthless, where sites like CNN (?!) get censored and where the government exploits foreign interest in their booming market by treating the companies that do business over there like bitches.

Unless you want to start importing Chairman Mao teapots or fake Hermes bags, I suggest you reconsider your decision...

Listen, Comrade Patriot Winnfield, in case you weren't aware, I have been in the high-tech laser business for 20 years, and even 10 years ago China wasn't even on the map of this business. I am in business to make money. I am under no illusions that I am not a capitalist. When I started out, 20 years ago, The USA was the place to do business, because it had a strong economy in this sector (Germany is now the strongest market... precisely why I am here). Entering The USA was always a pain in the arse even the first time I arrived in 1978. But, it didn't get worse all the way up to the last time I visited in 1999 (it didn't get any better either). The problem is that in the past six years, business dealings with The USA have faltered to the point where there are very few big customers left, so the only reason to trade with American companies is to, in true capitalist fashion, exploit the fantastically weak dollar, and buy cheap American produced sub-components. During the same six-year period, the Chinese market has blossomed. OK, I'll admit that a lot of the purchases are made by European companies, but the installations are in China. Just because I do business in China does not make me agree with their politics, in the same way that any residue of business with The USA does not make me agree with their politics either. So, you trying to make out that just because I use my capitalist guile to exploit the Chinese market must make me a Chairman Mao sympathiser is the argument of a true muppet (something you have a habit of proving on a consistent basis). Now then, back to the issue; the reason that I read for this fingerprinting is so that the data can be stored on the FBI's CRIMINAL database. And you still can't see why I might be just slightly annoyed and insulted about this?

OK, so I've avoided going to the US ever since I heard that all arrivals are to be treated as criminals, and my employer has also been too broke these last few years to send me there. But now I'm expected to go to Houston in a couple of weeks for training, which apparently can't be done anywhere in Europe.

So what's the situation? Can I expect my credit record to be sent in advance to the FBI and CIA? My fingerprints and photos to be put on file? And then forwarded to the next governmental agency (USAian or otherwise) who wants them?

Any way out of this, other than not going? Help!

I dunno about what other information other than your identity they are able to collect through the proceedings done at the moment of entry. However, there's no way out of it if you are a foreigner.

Everybody has to go through the same lines and put their left and right index finger on a little plastic scanner and then look into the camera and have a picture taken. The process is fairly fast and it goes without any problems. At least on my experience. Oh and you have to do it each time you enter the country.

Hey, Im all for CNN being censored!

Better still, block it, jam it.

Even better still, "take out" the "CNN Cenner" with all its fat supersized wide-eyeballed presenters. And do the world a favo(u)r!

And the USA wonders why tourist totals are down despite a weak dollar!

It's off our list of holiday destinations any way - why goe to the USA when one has the whole of Europe as a playground?

I have to go as well, and I'm not looking forwards to it at all. At least I've managed to boil it right down to a 'get in and get out quick' affair this time, and hopefully (pretty unlikely) I won't have to go back again this year. Problem is that with the weak dollar you have to go with the logic. Business is business, after all. The funny thing is that when you actually get there, most Americans are as nice and as intelligent as normal. It's the passing by the arseholes at the borders that sullies the whole experience. We should do to them what they do to us every fuckin' single time they pass a border... but let's face it, when would the arseholes ever be travelling abroad unless it was to kill somebody?

We should have a TT meet in USA , I'm off as well.

Oh joy, the one hour wait at Phili immigration when feeling tireder than a tired tired thing. Isn't interrogation under sleep depravation and being forced to stand for an hour without water covered by some sort of convention?

One reason (out of many): Because New York City happens to be over there.

I wonder how they plan to control this part of the Canada/USA border:


The Haskell Free Library and Opera House reading room has border indicated on the floor

might also find this USA today article of interest: Library Worries About Border Crackdown

Entering the USA isn't as bad as it was a couple of years back when you had to have an interview before you got on the plane. It's pretty painless nowadays besides the fingerprinting, which Canadians don't have to do, but even that is fairly quick. The only problem I had recently was entering the states from germany with my Canadian passport and being asked for a visa. I told the border fella I was pretty sure Canadians had a automatic at least 90 day visa. He told me it was the first he had heard of it. So he's checking his computer and then checks my tickets and then tells me that we have a problem because I'm not their for ninety days. In my sleep deprived state I'm panicked thinking that he meant I was staying over ninety days which I realized was absolute nonsense after a couple of seconds. His supervisor had to come and explain to him that a visa for however many days didn't mean that the person had to stay in the country for so many days. I was then shuttled on pretty quick and the guy forgot to get the whole address of someone your staying with and contact number bullshit. It was probably his first day on the job.

Wha...? Them evil puckerists? They don't...?

nope if you get yourself a Canadian passport you can enter the US without the fingerprinting or the picture taking.

Which kind of proves the mockery of the whole bloody thing, doesn't it?

Your story is not funnier than stamping my passport with wrong date !!

Yes. Not only the arrival date was stamped wrong, but also my departure date was stamped before arrival date !

You can not expect more than that though from a country whose border officials' IQs are less than the size of their shoes.

Anyhow I changed my passport afterward and do not have the record, but kept a copy of the stamped page for fun.

I guess I'm just a lazy paranoiac. I mean I'm not comfortable with Google knowing so much about me, but it doesn't stop me from using google and gmail...

So I guess I'll take it like a man and just go along with it all. Instead of standing up for myself like a uh... man...

Hey, on the subject on data privacy, this is good

Any Canadians out there feel like getting married next week?

It ain't THAT bad Matt.

Damn sin sounds like some 1960's reject with a tinfoil hat. I really look forward to meeting you.

As I am insouciant to your very existence it may be pleasure that skims over your head.

How is it any different than special treatment within the Schengen countries, or having separate lines for EU passports and US passports here? Or giving certain countries automatic 90 day visas? Neighbors get special privliges because they are neighbors.

Because lilplatinum, me old fruit and nutcake, you're supposed to be shitting your kecks on turquoise alert that the evil tuuurrrorrists are about to swarm your country causing all kinds of untold mahem, and that tiny little, eenie-weenie border you have with your lovely neighbour Canada might, I say might just get noticed by said tuuurrrorrists as a possible access point into your country... if they were looking in the right direction without the sun in their eyes on a good day. Call it a hunch if you will. Either that, or you are all being collectively anal over nothing, in which case YT, a bone fide ENGLISHMAN who should not be impeaded ANYWHERE for no bloody Johnny Foreigner, irrespective if they think the land is their country or not (I do believe that is roughly the correct interpretation of the text in one's genuine own passport), and certainly NOT treated like a common criminal, and I've been long campaigning for the EU to secure its borders and slap every American with a wet trout about the face upon entry in a new EU Homeland Taking-The-Piss action. Laugh? I nearly shat meself!

You're just jealous!

I completely agree that our border security is a joke that is mainly a placebo for the dirty masses. But lets not be overdramatic. You get fingerprinted for all kinds of shit in the US and it isn't being treated like a common criminal. Shit - if you want to own a handgun or practice law, you are fingerprinted and put in the FBIs criminal database (there is a lawyer joke to be made there).. I dont think its that usefull but its not like they are sticking a finger up your ass looking for a bomb. It takes a minute to get through customs as a foreigner, shit when I went back home with my boss (a german) for christmas and he was out of his line before I was out of mine. If you wanna get your panties in a wad about US injustice, I think there are other issues than a minor inconvenience and a double standard for neighboring countries that exists in europe as well.

I have never, ever, ever been fingerprinted in all the years I have grown up and lived in Europe. They didn't even fingerprint me in China or Japan. Who's being overdra-fuckin'-matic here?

Well obviously, I have no problems fingerprinting REAL criminals like handgun owners and lawyers.