Claiming social security benefits in Germany

Hello,

I desperatly need some advice on the following:

I had worked for the NAAFI for three and a half years, In that time I got myself with a German girl and have had a wonderful son who's now 15 months old.

At the end of November I did something daft, not malicous, just daft and subsequently lost my job with the NAAFI (Please don't preach to me about the job thing, I know the forum gets a bit judgmental at times!)

Can someone with more knoledge than me tell me where i stand and what I need to do, putting the following points into consideration.

1. Whilst at NAAFI I was classed pretty much the same as a soldier who's out here on a posting, now I dont work there I am effectivly on in Germany on "Holiday"

2. I am usure as to the rights I have in Germany regarding state benefits, I have a German partner and a Son who has a German passport. Does this account for ANYTHING? I am very worried that finding a job here is going to be hard work and very soon we wont even have enough money to eat let alone pay the rent.

3. Whenever I phone up the arbeitsamt I always get conflicting information, It seems to me they make up their own rules depending on their mood!

One Beamter said "No, problem Herr Hodges, just come in tomorrow and we'll put in your application for SozialHilfe"

I get to the Arbeitsamt just to get told "Herr Hodges, you are not entitled to state benefits of any kind because you are an AUSLANDER! and that I need to find a job within 3 months or I will have to go back to the UK". Is this just my expirience or is this the norm?

If anyone can make sense of the drivvel i've just written please help me out here, I am going crazy!

Cheers everyone,

Jimmy

I would suspect that your partner's situation (job or not? from your post, it sounds like she doesn't have one either?) is relevant, as partners have to provide for one another. I would also suspect that getting married has an effect on your legal status as a foreigner. Finally, I suspect that the specific kind of residency status you currently hold also has an effect on your rights.

Jimmy,

You should contact your Arbeitsamt today and apply for any Sozialhilfe or any other benefits asap.
You should not go ask multiple people there, as you will get multiple answers you should stick to one individual that takes care of your matters. Did you jot down the name of the person who told you can get benefits? Make sure you get the names down. They do make it a tiresome process, always stay on top and don't give up easily.

It's hard for everyone to find a job once they are fired or released and are looking for work. I suggest you start your work search asap and that at a turbo speed. You can try to Vermittlungsstelle at the Arbeitsamt, make sure they are sending your CV out to people in their database. You need to do job search on your own too. Take it seriously and apply to as many jobs that you think that have relevance to your work history. Send your CV to local job agencies too, they will look for a job for you on a continuous basis. You can't be too picky right now as it sounds like you need to take on the best job that comes your way. I would say take 7-8 hours everyday looking for ads, writing resumes and sending them out. Jot down your progress, so you don't lose track.

Did you get your reference from your former employer? Make sure that you check the reference you get from your former employer. It should not have any trickly language inside the reference giving away that you were fired of a mishap. You have the right to ask your employer to reword their references until it suits you best. You need to make sure that this reference has a neutral statement regarding your leave from that insitution.

Worst case scenario or Plan B, if they tell you that you won't get benefits, and you can't find any jobs which I doubt is likely to happen, you can try being a stay home daddy for a while and your partner can work since she is German.

Not sure if the British army is subject to German labor laws...

Doesn't giving a proper reference to a former employee fall under contractual rights? I thought that's pretty much everywhere in Europe.

If you,ve not paid taxes over here for at least 3 years you,re not entitled to any social benefits.But you,re an eu citizen and are allowed to stay here for as long as you want

Don't listen to them, that is absolute crap. They tried that with me when I was there. Firstly you have to go to the Arbeitzamt and get a letter stating that you will not get unemployment benefits. Take that to the Rathaus - Sozialhilfe. They can not force you to go home.

Can you quote a source? (Just curious, because I've never heard of a 3-year-rule before)

Maybe, I don't know. I know that under German labor law you are entitled to ask for what you described. I have no idea if this is also the case under British labor law (or any other labor law for that matter).

There isn't a source, because that isn't true. After working 1 year and paying taxes you are entitled to Abeitzlosengeld (I know it's spelt wrong). If you aren't entitled to that then you are entitled to Sozialhilfe regardless of how long you have been in Germany, it's just not easy to get.

I was in the Army myself and the same thing happened to me in 92.I don't think the laws have changed but you might get lucky.By the way,there are job listings on this site for english native speakers,you could try there.

The laws must have changed.

Yeah the laws have changed and the German labour law looks something like this, you can see the footnotes next to the changes in the law text. Maybe you want take a look at it.
German Labour Law

Wow,

Thanks for the quick response, the info is a great help.

Can someone tell me where I can obtain a definitive, clearly outlined explanation of my rights so when I get a difficult civil servant again I can say "Well actually Fritz no, it goes like this!"

Lifeisabuffet
You seem to know quite alot and i appreciate your advice, I've taken some of it already in fact and sent an email to my HR department asking for a reference to be sent to me.

I tried to go to an employment agency but they wont let me register until I can show them an Aufenhaltsgenehmigung, but I was told I cant get one of those untill I've got an offer of employment (Contract)

What is a realistic average wage for someone without a skill.

P.s. I'm in osnabruck, Lower Saxony

The EU gives you right to the same benefits as the locals: single market...!!! That means if some German who has not paid insurance benefits gets some form of help you will. Germany is like the UK and has different type of benefits for such situations...they do not let people starve here just like back at home...

As simple as that...I've done it myself once...transfered my benefits from the UK to Germany whilst I was a student travelling... The only countries it would be difficult are places like Spain and Italy where the locals have very restricted benefits...(in Italy it is your extended families responsibility to look after you).

Go to the relevant office and apply...and do not worry.

ADDITIONAL INFO.

Just seen/read Andreas post...she is absolutely right...help is NOTHING to do with paying into the German system for those that haven't keep up with the EU...you have the same rights as the locals except for voting in national elections and a few other things it's called the single market (it was NOT just about a single currency and free movement of goods...free movement of people needed to be supported by the right to benefits as well!!). Example a Brit in the UK can tell the dole back at home they want to look for work in Germany and they will transfer your benefits to Germany for (I think) six weeks and then you move onto the German system...

See below for your rights!!!

Quote from UK Gov Site
UK/EEA nationals have the right to live and work in Germany without a work permit. UK/EEA nationals working in Germany have the same rights as German nationals with regard to pay, working conditions, and access to housing, vocational training, social security and trade union membership. Families and immediate dependants are entitled to join them and have similar rights.




Link to Site:

Information on Employment and Benefit Rights

You can even transfer your sickness benefit it seems as well!!! One reason to luv the EU:

Transferring UK Sickness Benefit
If you are in receipt of Sickness Benefit in the UK, you may be able to transfer payment to another Member State. Ask at your local Jobcentre Plus office or Social Security office in the UK for further information.

The only thing I would add is that it is not as easy to get Soizialhilfe in Germany as it is in the UK. You are not allowed any savings whatsoever, you will have to use these to live on before you get any help. You will have to sell any assets, this includes a car, any life insurance policys with a cashing in worth, expensive jewellry/paintings (so get rid of the tiara and Rembrandt). You have to go to the Sozialhilfe office every 4 weeks with bank statements to show any money going into your account. Anything counts as income regardless of what it is, could even be a refund for something and it will count.

It is also worth noting that even if you get a low paid job or part time you may still be entitled to Sozialhilfe.

Hello TT
I wonder if you can help with my question please. I am from UK and my husband is NON-EU. We have a son, born here in Germany, Munich. My Husband works full time, but earns a low wage, so he qualifies for the "Sozialhilfe" something to do with the "SGB 2" from ARGE which looks as though it is a top up for families on low income. I have been looking at the "Bescheid" paperwork and it is based on his total income : Wages plus Kindergeld and then minus the family's "Bedarf" which must be our requirement for accommodation and heating. And then the figures show that we need more than we get, so the Social tops it up...
Well anyway, we have been in receipt of this for 1 year now, and the problem now has come with the renewal - We haven't had any Social money this month due to the Sozialamt saying that my husband will probably get a Xmas bonus in his November paypacket (at the end of November), so that means he will not be entitled to any social help... in the meantime we are living off his wages, paid at the end of October (which is all gone now so we are now going over our agreed DispoLimit)
My question is, are they allowed to do this, and is it just me, or does it seem unfair? Sorry, I know it is really good that we have been having the benefit, (and yes I worked full time myself for 9 years in England and never claimed any benefits and used to begrudge the people who did claim them, but now I am a Stay at home mum / HausFrau, looking after my son) but it seems my hubby is being penalized? Especially seeing as the woman is holding back the payment based on a hunch!? My hubby thinks our family could be better off if he did not have a job... - he is saying that our rent would be paid, we'd all get the accommodation and heating allowance and insurances paid, the lot. But surely this cannot be right? Any advice would be appreciated, many thanks.

And also, a question about Human Rights... Cos I am having difficulties understanding the woman from the Social Office on the phone (our "sachbearbeiter" - Whenever I call she always shouts at me and tells me that I do not understand her, and that she does not understand me. I turned up at her office one day without an appointment to ask for help understanding a letter she sent to us, and she was mad and said NEVER come without an appointment, but whenever I phone to ASK for an appoitment she says angrily, FRAU XXX You do not need an appointment, everything is explained in the letter. She recently sent a letter and I saw the word "TERMIN" and she had put 21st November, but there was no appointment time, so I phoned to ask what time to come on that day and she was mad and said "I don't know what is so hard to understand, you DO NOT HAVE AN APPOINTMENT" . Well anyway, a relative of mine has said that it is my human rights to be entitled to a translator in such a situation, so we can find out what they are saying to us. It has been really stressful of late seeing as one of the letters from the Social office said something about "you may lose your Wohnung" and stuff like that so as you can imagine it is not a nice feeling knowing there is something wrong and not being able to communicate to sort it out... Which I am devestated about - I did A Level german (!!!) and feel like I may as well move to Greece for all the help my German is. Funny thing is, it seems to be only the social office we have the communications problems with. Do you think she has a manager that I could ask to speak to? Or would they really provide a translator? Is it a right or a privilige? I know the woman refuses to speak in English. When I asked her to repeat something today on the phone, she just laughed wickedly. I am now having trouble with my self esteem because of this. Much cheering up and re-assurance is required please!!!

i noticed this thread has a light pink symbol - does that mean the topic is closed? it was started in 2005 after all... shall i post as a new thread? sorry.

You don't always get fast replies here and you've rasied a lot of points. If you are not sure that you understand the letter in full detail, get someone to translate it exactly for you - perhaps this friend who is advising you. Sounds to me as if what the person could mean is: you have to be there at some point on the day but there is no exact time. Sounds like you may need a German friend who speaks good English with you if possible.

Translation for any migrant who happens to want it is not something I've come across (and I've met a lot of needy migrants in my time here). Their families and communities and sometimes help groups is where the support comes from.

Have you thought about putting what you have to say in writing for the meeting in order to avoid doubt - then they can't play the "I don't understand what you say" line? Contacting a superior and asking to switch adviser? Any legal insurance that might help you out (maybe a bit early for this)?

As to the old "better off on benefits" canard, there are plenty of threads here about what on offer (or not) to the unemployed. Nobody can give you a quick answer and certainly not a "of course you'll be much richer unemployed" sort. From what I see, the quality of life of the unemployed is fairly low (assuming no other means like parental support). Sure there is state support for stuff like housing and living for many, but it's no blank cheque that enables you live where / as you want.

Swimmer, many thanks for taking the time to reply. It was a relative of mine in England who said there must be human rights for a translator, but unfortunately she doesn't speak German...! And none of my friends here are native German speakers.

I think you have a good idea about putting what I can into writing. I will have to try that next time. Last time I did that at least she gave us an appointment, but then the trouble was that we had a conversation with her and both my husband and I came away with totally opposite interpretations of what she had said, so then of course we were arguing about what she said and how she said it, and maybe she meant this and maybe she meant that...! So we were not very much any the wiser...

Then I get to doubting my own intelligence. She treats me as though I am thick. But I am not stupid, it's just German is not my first language, and she does not seem to make much/any allowance for this.

And yes of course, what you said about "better off on benefits" hits the nail on the head. We'll have to see where we go from here. It is just a bit demoralising for both of us at the minute.

Looks like we'll be off to bin-dive for those Pfand bottles then LOL

Thanks again for your suggestions.