Accidently buying the wrong mobile phone contract - Germany

Hi mates,

Let me explain my problem.

When I came to a Vodafone shop (in Karlsplatz) to make a contract, I just said that I want 1 contract for student with cheap monthy price. Then, the guy gave me some papers to sign, and I did it without any notice since I can't read German.

Then, I realized that I have up to 3 contracts with expensive Business tariff .

I wanna cencel at least one of the three, but they said it's impossible. I came again to the shop not less than 5 times and they're always rude! I called the customer service several times more and they just couldn't help.

I'm really angry and disappointed now.

So, please have an idea!

Thanks a lot

I hope you have legal protection insurance?

You wanted a basic contract. You ended up with 3 business tariff contracts. I'm sorry mate but you deserve it. Not being able to read German has nothing to do with it. I presume you spoke to someone in the shop to arrange this. So for starters the bloke in the shop is an idiot of gargantuan proportions. If these contracts are not what you intended to sign then you can get them changed and/or cancelled. You say you've been back to the shop 5 times. What have you been doing on these visits, standing in a corner waiting to be noticed. If what you say is actually what happened then you go in there tomorrow morning and demand to get the problem sorted. You state that you do not speak German, that somehow the person who gave you the forms was an idiot and that you are not leaving the desk until they sort out the problem. Either get tough and deal with the issue or keep your 3 contracts and continue to whine about it. This is not something that should be dragging out.

hmmm well technically the contracts are legally binding even though u didn't understand what you were signing. if it were that easy to get out of contracts just because you didn't understand them, any one of us could prolly use that same excuse to get outta contracts we don't want to be in anymore. so yea, you prolly shouldn't sign sumfin you don't understand..
but maybe they'll be nice and give u a break.. good luck

Do you have any german speaking friends (ideally Germans of course) who could go to the store with you? Then you could be sure of getting your problem across, and are (unfortunately) likely to be treated with more respect and taken more seriously?

hmm whereas keydeck is harsh in his comments, i agree that you should make one almighty bloody stink in the shop. start raising your voice and shouting, demand to see the manager, and do all of this where there are other potential customers and they should take you more seriously. sometimes i think it's the only way here. don't leave the shop until they have agreed to change it.

To me, all this seems so strange it's unlikely even to be true. What makes you think you have "up to 3" expensive business contracts? Did you get 3 phones to go along with them? Possibly you got a contract other than you expected, but I doubt you received more than one.

I suggest you have someone explain your contract(s) properly to you, and if you are not happy with it you should simply change it: I have changed my contract before (E-Plus), simply by calling Customer Service. Should you really have more than one contract, it should be quite easy to cancel superfluous ones b/c otherwise it'd be obvious the Vodafone salesman acted by fraudulent means, in which case the Law would take care of the matter.

First, thank you everyone for your replies.

Keydeck, yes I wasn't standing in the corner, of course. I raised my voice nearly to maximal level, in fact. They suggested calling the Customer service, the Customer sevice tolded me come to the shop . When it got more and more tense, they showed my signatures and they won the battle. What could I do next, Keydeck? I am, at least, politer than that German not throwing the mobile phone on his face.

Believe or not, I found an ally who have same problem with the same man. So, to whom it concerns, please be careful with one of the men (others are okay) over there. Let me remind those: Vodafone shop in Karlsplatz, opposite Santurn, a tricky man!

I talked to Customer service and we finally agreed on this solution: convert all my Business-Actice contracts to Vodafone Sun, then wait for 2 years.

All in all, thank you very much again.

Best regards.

In the famous words of Molder and Scully , "Trust No-one". Never ever ever sign something if you don't understand it.

I wouldn't sign a contract I didn't understand.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I'd heard some case law that if you didn't understand the contract you were signing, it couldn't be enforced.

I left Germany last week, and when I tried to close my vodaphone contract, the customer agents in the vodaphone shops insisted that I write to vodaphone customer service (the address on the top left of my monthly bills) to find out outcome.

After contacting vodaphone by telephone, they told me the same thing (to write to them).

If I left Germany (and the European Union for that matter), is it possible to return the phone/charger/original_box and end the contract? Many people have told me that I can do this regardless of the remaining duration of my contract. Apparently it is some kind of cellphone contract rule in Germany.

Can anyone confirm this? Otherwise I am stuck paying 12 Euros/month for the next 14 months!

Hi Vuvanthanh

Sorry to hear the mess you got yourself into, real bummer.

The rest of us on the board would never get ourselves in such a situation because we are perfect.

However, at one flippant point in my life, I messed up to.

I took a contract with E-Plus, within a month or two I was out of Germany and the stop order I set up never went through to E-Plus. Two months later they cut me off, I arrived back to be confuted with a disabled phone. I was really pissed, so I went into E-Plus to investigate. Their answer was that I had been disbarred from E-Plus for an eternity (don’t really know how
Long). They said pay up what I owe them and we go our different ways, clearly there was no credit blacklisting etc since I paid everything, it was just 60 days late.

So I walked across the street to O² Having been legally and honourably released from my contract with E-Plus to sign a new contact all within 30 min. The best thing of all is that E-Plus diden´t even want the phone back that they gave me for 1 Euro.

Ye Haa

Customs can win in Germany, its just that its as rare as a four leaf clover.

Best of luck, Don’t know if it will work with VV

The rules are pretty simple and it's nothing to do wiwth being perfect or whatever. You sign a contract with a phone company then you have agreed to abide by the rules of that company. If the contract was not what you intended then you can get it changed. Vuvanthanh somehow signed up for 3 contracts. This was clearly silly and clearly unintentional. You stand in the shop and you get it fixed. There is no middle ground, there is no debating the issue, you just get it done. If you are leaving the country then you give the phone company a copy of the document that you get from the KVR and the contract will be cancelled. It's not a maybe situation. You sign up for 2 years or whatever but if you are leaving the country then the contract will be cancelled, it's a fact and it applies to all mobile operators.

Surely there must be some recourse in cases where the salesman gives you a false impression about the nature of the document you're signing? Couldn't you plead non est factum or something?

Of course there is but I suspect that the problem in Vuvanthanh's case is allowing himself to be intimidated by the fact that he doesn't speak German and the shop guys are not being overly helpful. He needs to get tougher and get it solved.

yeah l agree, vodafone are terrible, as are E-Plus and T-online/Deutsche Telekom - all rubbish

O2, however, are absolutely brilliant!

and they have the most gorgeous IT staff imaginable

[cough, cough]

O2 are beyond shite.

Sorry Paul

@keydeck
hey, l'm not Paul!

and when it comes to mobile telephony, O2's the daddy!

I didn't say you were, I was directing the apology at someone else.

no matter what contract you are signing you can cancel it in written form (if you really wanna be sure, post it by registered post).
I just signed a new contract online with O2.
as far as I understood, I pay 20 € for 50 free mins/100 free SMS and free calls between 18-22h... a months and their website is really easy and uncomplicated.
O2 Active 50 online is the tariff

I just tried to cancel my mobile phone contract coz I am leaving the country, and my phone company (The Phone House..?) said I can't! I have to pay the basic fee for the next two years until my contract runs out, even if I am not in the country and using the phone. Is that possible? Can they do that? That's so crap!
I signed an initial 2 year contract four years ago, and since then it has just continued without me signing anything. I thought giving them 3 month notice would be sufficient. Any ideas?

Get a copy of your Abmeldung, show it to them, get the contract cancelled.

Deja-fcuking-vu or what!?

Right! Will do it! Need "nothing-will-stop-me-now-determined look" smiley face here but can't find it.

A contract in Germany cannot be enforced if the ability to continue it changes "substantially" such that it could no longer be enforcable. Dying would be a substantial change, for example, and leaving the country would be another. Assuming you really are leaving the country and can prove it (a copy of your Abmeldung should suffice, along with some other evidence that you now live elsewhere in the world), they really can't enforce it. This is based on the common sense principal that they would waste their time, and a lot of money trying to chase the debt.

Someone I know signed up recently for an Arcor phone/DSL line (because Telekom could not supply DSL in his area but Arcor could). 2 months later he unexpectedly had to move house. Arcor said they would need 6 weeks to move the connection, but he couldn't cancel because he had 12 month minimum contract. He really wanted Telekom/DSL (it's cheaper and more flexible for calling abroad) which was available in his new home, and could be switched on in 2-3 days. He then simply called Arcor and made up small fib that he was moving to an area where he knew Arcor did not serve, pointed out that the terms of the contract were therefore changing "substantially" and they agreed to his cancellation.

YL6

Have just re-read the letter sent to me by phone company. This is what it says:

"Einer vorzeitgen Aufloesung Ihres Mobilfunkvertrages aufgrund eines Umzugs ins Ausland koennen wir leider nicht zustimmen, da wir gegenueber dem Netzbetreiber ebenfalls vertraglich gebunden sind."

Seems as if leaving the country is not a reason to cancel? or do you think they are just trying it on? How soon can I get an abmeldung? Do I have to wait within a week of leaving or can I get it now in advance, just so I can get these idiots sorted out?

Same way as my contract says that I cannot work directly for the client within 12 months of leaving my contract. It may be in the contract and you may have signed to that effect but it doesn't make it legal. Kein angst.

An Abmeldung may not be sufficient - that just shows you left your current home. You'd need to show some proof of your new (non-German) residence. If you are moving to any country (e.g. UK) where there may be no requirement to formally register this might be a problem, as you will have difficulties providing formal proof of new residence.

I'd hope they would normally use common sense. You are leaving (if you can prove it!), and you will probably close your bank account (so direct debits cannot be booked), so they'll have hell on to chase such a relatively small debt (max 12 x your monthly fee) in a foreign country...

YL6

Generally not.

If you leave the country you should have the Abmeldung form and this is enough for the telecoms companies. Doesn't matter if you don't need to register in your new country, the form should say that you've left Germany.

The form shows you have left your current address and what your intended next address is. It doesn't confirm you left the country because it the next address is not binding...

YL6

Hi All,

As I'm about to leave Munich to return to Australia, I need to cancel my Arcor ISDN and DSL service. I (naively) assumed this was just a matter of giving a reasonable amount of time for them to close the account and pick up the equipment. I have had 768 Flatrate with plain old ISDN for a little over 3 years with an initial minimum of 12 months.

After contacting the customer helpline, I have been told that according to the rules, I have to give them 6 weeks notice till the end of a quarter or some such rubbish - i.e. I want to cancel the service on 18th of this month (November), but they are saying I am locked in until the end of December.

As I am leaving Germany on the 20th November, and a new tennant will move into the apartment in December, can they enforce this ?

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that there is a contract law that if the conditions change considerably - i.e. death or leaving the country, that they cannot enforce this.
Does anyone have a reference to this law ?

I just disconnect the wires from the back of the Phone Plug...

Besides if they try to plug a normal phone in to socket, it won't work
(ISDN) they would also need an NTBA. Perhaps they won't figure this out...

This is how you do it:

-find an address in an area outside on Munich that Arcor doesn't cover.
-call the customer helpline and tell them you are moving next week and want to move your Arcor line to this new address
-they'll say "oh scheiße, we don't cover that area..."
-you'll say "oh damn, what do I do?"
-they'll say "sorry, we'll have to cancel your line and you'll have to move to Telekom..."
-you say "thank you... I'll do just that"

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

Moving house is sufficient "subtantial change of circumstances" - if they technically can no longer supply the service then it's their problem...

They *might* say - "but we can move you to a "pre-selection" account on your new Telekom line", in which case, you say "thanks- I'll do that when I have the new line sorted out. In the meantime just cancel my old line..."

YL6

I am moving back to Australia - I think that probably qualifies

In the end I sent them a registered letter telling them how it's going to happen, and if they want to be reasonable about it, they will get what they are owed.

I suspect that they will behave in the same manner when I first signed up - completely messed up the billing and ignored my calls to fix the problems, and hence I won't be able to do the right thing by them. But this time around, I don't care anymore...

In the oft quoted dispute of the General Public and Telekom vs. Arcor, I rest my case, m'lord.

YL6

As said before, you are stuck with it. The only way out is with a special case, and the only good one is if you leave the country and can prove it (Abmeldungbescheinigung) or are dead. It doesnt serve you right, and whoever says this is wrong, but it is your own fault for moving here and not knowing german. I would learn the language ASAP or you will get continously screwed again and again.

My advice is after learning german, go to the company and try to get the contract converted to one with a lower tariff. Most mobile companies allow you to do this either for free or for a fee. There are a number of different plans, and so you might be able to get one that has cheaper call rates and a cheaper monthly fee.

I was wondering when the "No German" basher would come along...

1. He/She's going back to AU to live... I think "Learning the Language ASAP", is just a bit to late...

2. Stop your "English Only" bashing attitude. If this is what you think,
fine keep it to yourself, but I (And I'm sure there are others) are getting
a bit tired of your crap..

You are just getting tired of it because you were not smart enough to learn a language in 6 years time.

Ask any enducated person and they will all tell you that the most important thing to live in, be a part of, and to understand any society is to learn the language. So yes, I as well as the majority of the world population think that when you move and live somewhere that language is the number one most important thing. If you are arrogant enough to think that everone should cater to you and speak your language in a foreign country, it will work for so long, but sooner or later you will be in an important situation where you will need that language and understaning of the country, and you wont have it and you will be the only one to blame.

The phone contract though: as said before, there is no excuse for them to take advantage of you in this way, but if you want to protect yourself in the future the best thing to do is to learn german. Think about buying a car or signing a lease, and how this phone contract trouble could be compounded. If you are in fact going to Austarlia in a few months, then dont bother. You will get out of the contract as soon as you leave anyway. If you will be here long term, then it is a must to learn, no matter what anyone else seems to think.

I speak the language... so STFU

To make a long story short:

Being a non-native german speaker, You should NEVER sign anything unless you know what you're signing. You could be signing your life away or at the very least be getting more than what you bargained for. There are lot's of instances of shady businesses that take advantage of foreigners who don't speak German. In future, if you have to sign a contract (mobilephone or otherwise), get a friend who speaks and reads good German to explain it to you. This should avoid any future confusion and you will be covered in case the salesperson get's amnesia and is relectant to help you resolve the problem. In the meantime, it should be enough to talk to the vodaphone customer service and get them to cancel the un-needed contracts as long as you are planning to keep at least one. As stated by other people in this thread, you would also help your cause considerably in the future by making the effort to learn at least SOME German. People will be less inclined to take advantage of you if they know you speak the language.

Well the root of the problem with the mobile contract was that he couldnt speak german. So my advice was to learn german. It is the same in all the other posts. People were complaining that the government owed them benefits, but they were uneligilbe because they couldnt speak german, so I said that they need to learn it. Other people were talking about not understanding something or not being able to recieve something because they couldnt speak german. Yes, in cases like this, it is my answer to the problem, because if the person did speak german, then there would be no problem at all. It was in every case a legitimate answer, and in every case the only one that was realistic.

To go through your options again for the phone: If you leave the country for good, you will have to register at the Rathaus. There you will get an Abmeldungbescheinigung and this will free you from your phone contract.

If you dont leave the country, you can either try to switch to a cheaper plan that fits your needs better, or you can try to get a friend to take over the contract for you. Those are the only realistic options.

Heh this should be your profile picture jpp888:

Well I guess it should be, but if people dont listen and arent open minded enough to consider the easiest solution, then you have to tell them 1000 times to hope that it sinks in. I guess it is a lost cause though so I should save my breath!

I've been gone from Germany for 3 months now. I wrote 2 letters to vodaphone in August and September to cancel my service, provided them with a copy of my Abmeldung each time ... but they are still charging my account! Arghhhh ... more rambling, faxes, and phone calls to go until they cut me lose!

Close the account, and they won't be doing that again...

Just had to throw my worthless two cents in... so since I'm not eligible for benefits because I don't speak German, then not speaking German exempts me from paying taxes?

I just got off the phone to Vodafone customer service who were adamant that I cannot cancel my contract as leaving the country is not a sufficient reason. She also said I should send in a cancellation letter anyway just in case they let me cancel, but she knows 100% that they will not let me. I asked if sending in my abmeldung will help but she said no, not at all. I then asked if I could speak to someone with some authority on the subject, the people who will know which decision would be made, and she said she qualifies that.

Have things changed since 2004 when the above quotes were made? Or was she just being clueless? One moment she was "oh try it" and then "100% impossible" with a lot of "umm"'ing, "ahh"'ing and "I guess"'ing in between.

I'm getting bloody fed up with clueless f*ckers in customer service roles. Just last week I got a returned claim from Bupa cos they didn't read my f*cking cover letter. And a few months ago, useless fkin monkeys in a bank costing us 400Eur on intl money transfers.

AARRGGHH! STUPID PEOPLE PISS OFF!!!

Edit: Ahhh that feels better. Maybe it should be in a rant thread...

A contract is signed by 2 parties.
Why is it that only ONE party has conditions ?
Next time I am going to sign any contracts, I will have a set of my OWN conditions with me and I should get THEM to sign it as well...
[ ex: If they have failed to provide good service, I withhold my payments...]

How is that for an idea? ( Don't you dare copy MY idea!)

next time...you just wait!

She doesn't know the law and it's her job to keep you as a customer. If you knew when you signed up for the contract that you might not be able to see it out, you could be on shaky ground. It's also possible they may levy a penalty for you to get out, as they could rightly claim that any subsidy paid out on the contract closure (such as a free phone) was financed over the life of the contract. At the end of the day it's how long and hard you can fight. I'd say the law is on your side, but they might have bigger and better lawyers than you. Having legal insurance to cover your side of the battle would be a bonus.

So basically it's not worth arguing with them over it if it's only 4 months of extra line rental. I guess.

Where is this law that if you leave the country they have to cancel the contract?