Translators, do you check which English to use?

In a long series of translation jobs, technical, business, biochemical, sports, yada-yada, it slowly became evident that almost always there is some kind of target market, be it the British English world or the American English world.

Milling through some of the old texts from compadres at various key customers, I noticed that a a significant amount of both Yankees and Limeys translate into their own English, violating seemingly obvious policy, but the Germans, Austrians and Swiss are (or seem to be) no more the wiser.

Do other translators do the good thing and also determine into which English a translation should be splashed?

I'm no translator but the Brits get pissed off reading stuff that are written in American English. I even went through a gf's English Language study book and "corrected" a load of stuff asking the question, "Do you want to learn English or American English. If the target market is England you don't wanna be throwing in a load of Americanisms!

Do Americans get pissed off when they read British English?

Anyway, the client should specify what they want. The most important thing is not to mix the two.

Yep, that's the point. The question is, "Do you define your target market when (before) you are translating?" The trick is to divorce yourself from, well, yourself and deliver cucumber sandwiches to cucumber sandwich customers. This can be very difficult without the preliminary divorce.

Not so much pissed off, but some British English words are considered to be dated, like Shakespearean or Dickensian. For instance, In British English the word whilst is used almost interchangeably with while and whilst is the more common term. Whilst is more often used in instruction manuals, legal documents, etc. To Americans the word whilst, in any context, seems very archaic or pretentious or both. The words amidst (as opposed to amid), and to a lesser extent amongst (as opposed to among) are also rarer in American English. ("In the midst" is a standard idiom in both.)
You're right that mixing the two forms is important not to do. A client wouldn't want to see the written sentence "The color of the orange is also it's flavour."

Hell of a first post there, DV.

You're kidding, right Tomasino? Please say you are kidding.

Thanks, Tom. However my first post was back in December 16th. Anyway, I was a bit reluctant to post anything in this forum because I can see that eventually it's going to turn into one of those Us versus Them fights, as it generally does when Limeys and Yanks get together Fighting like Sunnis and Shiites.

He wouldn't, especially when there's such a whopping grammatical error in it.

Whopping? C'mon, thats that's just a typo. I spotted it afterwards but the Edit function was no longer available.

No cos they can't speak proper let alone spell. As one American called Miguel Pedro San Torres said, us Americans are ignorant & very often misunderestimated.

Fuck 'em. There are 300 million English speakers in the US and another 30 million in Canada which orthographically isn't any different. That's more than six times the 52 million English-speakers in the UK. There are more native English speakers in Nigeria than in England.

While those on the US coasts find UK English pleasing (save for Massachusetts), every place in between despises the "namby-pamby, high-falutin'" often pretentious style.

Now that that's off my chest, Jules Winnfield is correct. Clients should specify what they want and it's really bad form to mix the two.

We will now wait for Jeckel's ranting retort about who "invented" English and screaming that I used "UK" in one comparison and "Ing-ger-land" in another and I must be a complete fuckwit not to know the difference between the two... in 5, 4, 3, 2...

woof.

Sorry BD, English is English & "American English" is,hmmm, er, something else. Just because a load of Brits went over to The Americas, ran the locals (called Indians) into the hills & couldn't keep their tackle in their pants so that now there's 500 million of the feckers running around, doesn't mean to say that knkow what they're talking about or even learnt how to spell.

Oh darn. Gosh. I just knew this forum would eventually turn into a battlefield. I'm staying clear. I hate to be caught in the crossfire between the 60 million-odd Brits on oneside and the 1 billion-plus non-Brits on the other.

We will now wait for Jeckel's ranting retort about who "invented" English and screaming that I used "UK" in one comparison and "Ing-ger-land" in another and I must be a complete fuckwit not to know the difference between the two... in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Bark
[/quote]

Oooooh just noticed this bit. You'll be waiting a long time for what ever it is you seem to be expecting. The Americans seem to know best ALL the time so you must be right because you are the most powerful country in the world.
One question though BD. Your President bloke, - why is it you can NEVER find any self respecting American that will say he voted for Bush? No one else in the rest of the world voted for him & Americans seem to be embarassed to have him as their president. Don't get it geez. Is he cheatin'?

Actually Canadians are officially taught to use British English spelling and grammar although we tend to use both interchangeably because we are so strongly influenced by our neighbours.

Same goes for the metric system. We are taught metric in school but because so much of our communication is with the US, in practical terms we tend to use imperial measures (which I can't stand either).

BTW BD. The word's called "Collonialism" I think (For all the English speakers around the world, I mean incl the US, Nigeria, India bla bla bla)

Only if you define "something else" as "original English accents before the English bastardised their own language". That's right, those tripthongs you hear in the Appalachians and those broad vowels in New England as well as the Southern drawl, ALL of them sound closer to the English accents of the 17-19th centuries, whereas not only were new accents invented (RP), accents have fragmented so much that you can tell which side of a village someone in England comes from.

As for the spelling, Americans tried simplifying the spelling, casting out unnecessary and terribly archaic instances, such as the unnecessary "u" in words like color, honor, and valor, as well as the silly waistcoat (pronounced "wesc't") and Featheringhamshaw ("Fanshaw"). The UK has continued to bastardise the language with such silliness as "aluminIum" in some stupid effort to standardise the endings of the names of elements. Of course you lot couldn't be consistent there either or you'd call that expensive metal "platinIum".

For a worldwide market default translations are to American English. For a European-only market, default is UK.

Edit: ER, you may be taught the UK spelling but the general popular usage and heavy influence from the US make its actual use rather spotty.

woof.

Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! All of you - now! Go to bed this instant. None of you are getting any Xmas dinner.

Hell yeah. I fucking hate it.

keep goig BD this is funny. You didn't pick up on my deliberate contradiction in terms when I said "Self respecting Amercan" though did ya. Shame on you for writing all that though. I know you're only having fun cos no one could be that daft to think "American" is the original English otherwise "English" would be called "American". Where's the argument in that, read the words which explain themselves VERY CLEARLY.

>*CAPITALS IN CASE HE STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND PROPER ENGLISH LIKE INNIT*

PS -I've had me din dins

Geez, you like contradicting yourself hey. read what you wrote above AGAIN.
" Americans tried simplifying" - yes, tried simplifying ENGLISH, bastardised it & now it's called "American English".
No one said English is a logical language, but you seem to be arguing with yourself. Happy Christmas BD. I'm off to have a sensible argument with my sisters cat

Let me help you with a little editing. This one's on the house:

No, because they can't speak properly, let alone spell (correctly).

...doesn't mean that they know what they're talking about or even learnt how to spell.

BTW, BD, the word's called "Colonialism", I think.

Keep going BD, this is funny. "Self-respecting American" ... having fun because ... original English otherwise, "English" ... Where's the argument in that? Read the words that explain themselves VERY CLEARLY.
>*CAPITALS IN CASE HE STILL DOESN'T UNDERSTAND PROPER ENGLISH LIKE INNIT*

Geez, you like contradicting yourself hey. Read what you wrote above AGAIN.
... I'm off to have a sensible argument with my sister's cat.

Punctuation and spelling are a luxury, affordable by few, it would seem. One living in a glass house...
Anyway, so good. The moral of the story is that others agree one should know one's audience when translating and not try to instill some personal preference in some kind of personal campaign, and that one shouldn't mix dialects when delivering text product. Thanks for your support!

Merry Christmas!

Good. Glad that's over, right? I thought I learned and spelled English poorly, but I'm glad I didn't. I was also about to refer y'all to this 1992 article by Alexander Gross: How "Correct" Is British English?
But I guess I won't now.
Merry Xmas!

DV you've chosen some bad examples there. Most of these words are not in common use in England any more either. US English is full of obsolete words though: quit, apparel, gotten. We dumped them all 150 years ago and the language has evolved furiously since then. For instance I can think of 10 or 20 new terms for being drunk or associated with drugs which have appeared in the last 15 years, and none of them have come from the US. The same process is going on all over the place.

That article is horrible to read. And the example he gives of a question is not good. Not even my granny spoke like that when she was alive.

Do fuck off. Nigerians are not native speakers of British English. Whatever it may say in Wikipedia.

There are more people speaking British English as a second language (India for example) than US English. Not that it's very important either way.

You are displaying your ignorance. British English has range. It can go from crude to "high-falutin'". Lumping it all together is bollocks.

I've got news for you - the accent situation is nothing new. 'Which side of the village' is an exaggeration though - it's about five miles under normal circumstances.

Webster's work was very inconsistent in itself. And the US has it's own pronunciation peculiarities: Arkansas, for instance. 'Waistcoat' is often pronounced 'weskit', not 'wesc't'.

Wheel, are you drunk? I hear those three words from the English all the time. And I didn't expect you to read that article. God. Anyway, I can't be bothered getting involved in this debate because it's never ending. And it just turns into another childish fight between the British and the rest of the English speaking world. Nonetheless, there are those who prefer to use British English and those who prefer American English. Neither is right or wrong. It's a personal choice. My preference: American. I find British English too ambiguous and archaic. But that's my two cents. Enough of this.

@DoubleVision - strange... if you didn't intend for people to read the article, why did you add the link? I know you are a newbie, so don't take any offense.

Quoted from the article "How Correct is British English?" (the link above.)


I nearly fell of my chair laughing at this part. And I am American, not British. But I know tons of Brits, and not a one actually speaks like this. It is parody, pure and simple. Gosh, you can tell just by reading on TT that none, and I repeat, none of the Brits would argue a point so ridiculously as mentioned above.

I honestly don't think one way is better than the other.

For translating, as often said before, know your target audience. Simple.

It was irony, leeza. Wait a minute - are you sarabyrd in disguise? Nevermind. Anyway, here's a more appropriate article on the topic for you and Wheel: British & American English, Which Is Correct?. It's very informative and enlightening. By the way, offense was taken.

Leeza, you are the newbie, that is, to sarcasm, err, irony. Fer gawdz sake, deconstruct.

Bullshit! They do so. Anyway, your [possessive gerund] missing the irony above devalues your credibility. And you're laughing too strongly at the wrong things. And you don't represent the whole American nation. So myeh (noise that Cartman makes.) And by the way, what is the estimated tonnage of the Brits you know?

You don't want to know how Freud would describe the reason behind your abuse of absolutes and hyperbole (pure and simple, none, tons of Brits, not a one, etc.) But I grasp for answers and come up short, as http://personals.salon.com/ - Germany - Bavaria - "Woman seeking Man" provides understanding why you just might need this kind of outlet and feel the need to express yourself in this way.

Couldn't agree more. Bless you.

Don't even listen to him. The dude's not even circumcised, so how can you take him seriously? (trolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltrolltroll)

@ DV

No-one speaks the way they do in that article any more, not even the Queen.

You hear 'whilst' from Brits all the time? Really? I doubt I've used that word in conversation, ever. 'While' would be much more usual.

The differences between British & US English are interesting. I know British English is developing very quickly, especially in cities. US English doesn't seem to be doing this, but I could be wrong.

Call bullshit, everywhere I go at the moment is 'British' spelling - flavour, colour... ect, although we do use tire and not tyre. Bienvenue a Canada (can't get the accent thing working on dad's notebook).

Its amazing that there is always such bullshit about what is 'proper' english, even if Tomasino started this for a sarcastic shit kicking of his own country.

this back and forth arguement never gets anywhere, and only succeedes in getting everyone's arms up in a flap.

ps- there are parts of Canada that still today speak more of a 'british' accent then an 'american' accent.

When I'm writing for an American audience, I use American English. When I'm writing for the rest of the English-speaking world, I use British English. I honestly don't know of any English-speaking countries outside of the US that use American forms of spelling.


Wrong.

Australia is a bit like Canada. Some words, such as labor, are spelled the same as in the US. (Though some Aussies use labour as well). As mentioned before by someone, the word tire is the same in Canada as in the US. I'm glad to see here in Germany the word center used and not the French-looking centre.

I am not a translator myself, and whether a text is written in British English or American, as a reader I would like to read a piece of text which is grammatically correct, not something merely gibberish and definitely not something that is over strangled to make it pompous. I find it a bit boring when someone writes ten inarticulate paragraphs instead of writing few simple paragraphs to express an idea or a theme.

Excuse me, I am terribly sorry, I didn’t have my ironymeter on. Will be more careful in the future so as not to burn myself.


I should be so lucky! Sarabyrd is top-notch. Wait a minute – are you BadBob in disguise?

If you really are new to this board, you might find that it is prudent to dip your toe in the water before jumping in head first. If you are an undercover agent and just trolling for the sport of it, well, then, troll away.


Uh, let’s see… Profile: that little word right under my user name – Veteran. Hmmm, and those four little purple dots – Supporter. Not that there is anything wrong with being a newbie, we all were once. Oh, wait, this is more of that 'irony' thing, right? Because I am not *really* a newbie, but maybe I made a newbie mistake? To quote Bobby De Niro, "You, you are good. No, no, no, you are gooood" *points and winks*


You’ll notice that I spoke of the Brits I know, not every Brit on the face of the earth. My statement is still true, that none of the Brits I know actually speak like that. As for tonnage, I couldn't say, but would guess around 5 tons?


I’ll laugh at whatever I like, thanks. And for sure, I do not represent the whole American nation, which I never claimed to do. Do you? Beware sweeping generalizations...


*Sigh* Really? Did you have to go there?


No, not really, as Freud was a wanker (to borrow a phrase from my British friends).


Glad we agree on something!


I agree wholeheartedly, Carm. I should have seen this for the trolling thread that it (probably) is, and not engaged at all. Live and learn, live and learn.

That wasn't supposed to begin all these ramblings. It was just a comment to try to explain why people would translate text into "English English" or "American English", nothing more, nothing less. Seems TT has proved there is a need for it as peeps do get considerably annoyed with putting up with the other. Thankyou all very much for proving my point.

What I have noticed though is no wonder America wants to fight the world and kill everyone they don't understand, because they (as a nation) have little tolerance and only seem to understand themselves even if they are descended from everyone else.

BTW if American English IS simplified English, how come in England if someone breaks in to your house & steals things, you've been "burgled" yet in America you've been "burglarized"? That's not simplified, that's buggerized innit

What does this have to do with which English to use when translators are translating? Discuss.

Can you just mark this as "troll" for the non-deconstructors out there whose button will have been pushed?

Anyway, I find the whole reverse culture shock is a huge reality. Yankees living abroad for longer tend to be much different in the major areas of thinking and opinion than the average one living at home.

But then he is an idiot who uses terms like "average American" because to generalize and say that 300 million people (two-thirds of the native English-speaking world, but I digress) are homogenous is ridiculous.

It would be statistically (almost six times - 600%) safer to say all Brits are homogenous. And we all know that is not the case.

Also, I want to love the world. And as far people I don't understand, I want to make love to them, if taking my GF is an example.

By the mere definition of English, your statement is complete and utter shite. Language is dynamic, and whatever the English happen to be speaking at any given time is "correct English" everything else is a bastardised version of English.

I know this was written a while back but wanted to come back to . It never ceases to amaze me how badly some translators or journalists (ab)use the English language. It is always important to choose the market you wish to communicate with from the point of view of spelling, idioms and even writing styles (UK- short choppy single clause sentences vs US multi-clause long sentences). But for most professional business writers there is nevertheless a mid-Atlantic style of writing that can be versatile-ly used across English speaking national boundaries. Whilst, amongst, amidst and betwixt have NO PLACE in professional writing and as I have been writing professionally for years these words now strike me as absurd cumbersome monstrosities.

Somebody else's two cents:

American vs. British

Level-headed and definitely worth reading!

Excellent article. Paul Brians had it right on.