Italian campaign against anorexic models

Slut!

Oh and to make that clear, i think there is a second, somewhat less dramatic possible meaning of sluttyness ... the one in which you can say 'slut' to your chick and actually mean it in a nice way

But thats another Topic again, just wanted to point out that i am not going nazi over the definition of sluttyiness we're discussing here

BWAHAHAHHAHAH
ER, thank god that was posted at the exact same time, no one wouldve believed me ... ;p

If i called my chick a slut, she'd give me a slap round the chops. and rightly so, no matter how i "meant" it.

edit: actually, come to think of it, i'd probably get a slap for referring to her as a chick as well

No there arent, ad i didnt use the abbrevations ADD/ADHD until you brought them up, because that wasnt what i meant. i meant (with a btw ) that it *should* be in DSM IV

Bwahahah ... maybe you should explain to her that you are trying to rediscover you masculine self and need to find your male emotional sphere ...

Admittedly, the opportunities where one can call his woman a slut and get away with it as a compliment were probably always rare. Depends on the woman tho. I've met more then one who actually liked it from time to time, in certain situations.

I've got to get going but I'll leave you with this the following pearls of wisdom:

1. It is not for me to put labels on other people, that is discrimination
2. It is not for me to define what behaviour is apporpriate for other people unless it directly effects me
3. It is not for me to judge the behaviour of others, I have only my own expections to live up to and they only their own.

wise words indeed.

All agreed to, no debate here.

If any man ever called me a "slut", I don't care who he meant it, I would punch him square in the face. And then pull that, "ooh you can't hit me back I'm a girl" thing!"

@Mr. Fixit? What do you mean "agreed"?! That is exactly what you were doing. You were putting a "label" on a certain type of behaviour that you deem incorrect.

make sure you keep the thumb on the outside, not inside the fist- you can do alot of damage to your thumb that way.

Better yet, I would call Carm over and let her do it, she's a tall, amazon, ex-model who probably has a great right-hook.

knuckle dusters are quite effective, though.

you missed my post about the punching I did at the Ofest then, eh?

edit- years of playing Defense in hockey have paid off well.

edit- search under funny things at the ofest - or something similar

Well, i never said it couldnt be hazardous to try to find out whether a given woman likes it or not

Oum, i dont think so. Could you quote the part that left that impression?

<goes to use TT seach function to look for that! LOL>

The whole damn thing. The fact that you even attempt to define what a "slut" is means that you believe there are appropriate times in which to label someone a "slut". You comment about using another person as a form of masturbation shows that you feel there are "rights" and "wrongs" in sexual behaviours.

edit: But let's be honest here. Almost all men, if truth be told, have considered certain females they have met or known of as "sluts" if they deem her behaviour to be too "free" for their taste. Telling the men that they don't have the right to feel that way, is as unfair as telling the woman that she doesn't have the right to self-determination in her sex life.

Also, I have seen many a woman call another woman a "slut" and it is normally not the behaviour of the other woman they dislike as much as it is the other woman herself. Funny how you can take two, sexual active and less err "discriminate" women and put them before a jury of their peers to be judged and the one that will be called the "slut" is the one that the women dislike.

It is nothing more than an insult to make the people casting it feel better about themselves (in that moment).

And regarding the uproar on the idea that 'slut' could be meant as a *special* compliment... does anyone think that when pirulero introduced the term sluttyness referencing Monica Belluci, it wasnt meant as an insult? I'd say there is a certain respect in the word

Yes, Mr. Fixit..I took it to mean that Pirulero thinks Monica is a vampy, seductive, hottie. It was *you* who seriously asserted his definition of "sluts".

Nope, the judgement is within your own head.
I might have provoked it or atleast furthered the idea, but i didnt judge anyone. If you think it is alright to use consenting adults as a means to masturbation, then thats just it: alright. The judgement is with you.
I did say that it could be considered pathologic tho ... which *is* a judgement of sorts, an evaluation based on what seems to be healthy for the person itself. I couldnt care less if folks i dont know are prude or slutty. May they fuck whoever they want. I may believe that it is not good for their own mental health, but i dont judge them anymore as i judge someone with say shizophrenia. Its just the way the world goes. But i am 'guilty' of it myself, and i have every right to judge myself.

Then why would you be offended if someone would indicate that he thinks you are a vampy seductive hottie? And up to the point of beating him, no less?

Hilarious!

The court calls Pirulero to the stand to qualify his statement as to the relative faithfulness of the defendant Mrs. Belluci. Mrs. Belluci has previously been described as one of the hottest women around. A seriously sexy babe. All rise.

Don't try to twist your own words around and play mind games. You are the one that took ER's mastubation example and blatantly said that you believe that sex that you deem meaningless is equivalent to "using someone elses body" for your own pleasure. And frankly, if someone wants to participate in that, who are you to judge?

I have run into this "holier than thou" attitude with you before somewhere else. Then you try to split hairs. Sit and spin, puppet.

edit: I also did not imply that anyone meant that Monica Bellucci was unfaithful, I wanted to find out what he meant exactly by "slutty". Pirulero has nothing to defend as he clearly (at this point it is clear) was not seriously calling Bellucci a "slut". You however, Mr. Fixit, seem to sit in judgement of the morals of others quite often. As we have had our run-ins about cultural identities and religion before and you tried the same thing.

Oh FFS! Is that *your* new definition of "slutty"? Tell you what, you don't even need to call me a slut...I'll punch you just for the hell of it

disclaimer: no one will be physically assaulted. Mr. Fixit and I have had worse arguments and come out laughing.

Oum, Saint, just read the thread over again. I didnt coin the defintion of sluttyness in this thread, i only pointed out that ER's definition was a bit ... well ...too broad

And yes, i am guilty of having an opinion on the matter. And even worse, i voiced it. so what?

I didnt judge anyone, altho i did make a fun attempt at labeling it a mental disorder ... which is still light years away from a moral judgment by the way. AND i specifically referenced to *consenting* adults, which isnt even always true because 'sluts' do like to pretend they have feelings for their victims, so the consent is quite often due to deception.

So go fuck off yourself, i do not give a shit or am shocked, or whatever you'd expect from someone sitting on a high horse, when sluts do it with other sluts. In fact i couldnt care less.
But i am well entitled to point out fallacies in a line of reasoning, and as it came to pass i pointed one out in ERs. Sluttyness, as used in this thread, is *not* a matter of self control, but on the contrary it is much more one of lack thereof. While on the otherhand it does take self control to remain faithful in the face of all the little sluts that want to drag you down to their level.

So ... now you have some judgment to get worked up upon

Oumm ... i indicated that i accept a second definition of 'slutty' well before this thread got all vicious ;p

Hmm, something tells me that you wouldnt disagree too much if i called you a vampy, seductive, hottie instead ...

Did i already point out that it is very much a question of who says it in what context, tone of voice and situation?

Mr. Fixit, read my post again. I do not have a problem with you having an opinion. I took exception with your comment that you "agree" with ER when she said:


Then you said, "I agree". But, you are putting labels on other people. Of course you can if you want to, that's not my point. My point is simply that you should admit that that is what you are doing. You are also "defining what behaviour is appropriate for others" when you say that something is "unhealthy" or label it with a negative word and say that someone is trying to bring you "down" to their level. So you *are* judging.

And like I said in my earlier post, you have the right to judge and have an opinion. We all do. No one can tell you how you should think but you should at least admit, that you are judging someone else's behaviour when you make value calls or assumptions about the mental health or social worth (when you say "down to their level") of others based on their sex life.

Look, you are talking to someone who has had very few partners and never even had a one-night-stand. However, I know people who have very colourful sex lives and that is good for them, it makes them feel good. I have one girlfriend who had slept with 40 men before she was 22. She's settled down a bit but has not turned into some Mother Theresa. She is no "slut" (because there is no such thing as a real slut -- it is simply an insult that people use to belittle others) although your definition would label her as such. She is also not attention starved. I think you over-simplify human behaviour when you base your assumptions on your own motivations and world-view. I also know a man who has easily slept with 200 women in his 36 years of life. He is also perfectly healthy and happy. They are not "below" you or I on some level. I just don't get your absolute feeling of moral and intellectual superiority sometimes.

Nope. I dont go around and saying "youre a slut - and you are - and yes, you over there, you are too."
All i did was to point out what seemed to be the general understanding of sluttyness at that point - a higher variance in sex partners then deemed socially acceptable. And while i (and probably everyone else) would still agree that that is pretty much the main use of the term, i did not label anyone.


Again, i was NOT doing that. I hinted that i think it might be unhealthy to them. Not in the same way i'd hint that it would be unhealthy to the kid in the street if something happened to my bike while i leave it in his street tho. More in a threat-free way ;p
But again, i also think that jumping off 15-story-buildings is unhealthy, yet i dont judge the folks that think they should. Just neither my favourite thing to do, nor any of my business if they do.

Yea, but there i was just giving you the judgement you so craved for. I can be a nice guy sometimes ;p

and apart from that mental thingy being a deliberate exaggeration, it is still nor making a moral judgement. It is merely an assessment whether or not the given behaviour is pathological or not, as in having a positive, stabilizing effect on a psyche or a destabilizing, negative effect.

And regarding your edit: I too have had a 'colorful' sex life at periods in my life. That only means that i know what i am speaking of when i say that it lacks emotion and depth. And since i also now what it means to have just that, i know what i missed (and am missing). And yes, i consider it a lot healthier to have regular sex that is accompanied and amplified by respect, understanding and all the stuff that is so inadequatly summerised with the term 'Love', then to have just sex for the mere physical sensation. That may be a (personal) judgement, but atleast its an informed one.

sounds like you can't admit you were talking absolute bollocks, which seems to be a trait of yours, unfortunately.

Just in case there is any confusion ADD is the abbreviation of attention deficit disorder.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention-Deficit_Disorder

That's what I'm talking about when I say you're full of it

Mr. Fixit you have back tracked in this thread more frequently than the French army. I really don't understand why Saint and ER are bothering to point out your continuous contradictions. Just admit it, you dug yourself into a hole on this one, you made some bullshit arguments and got called on them.

Point out fallacies in my line of reasoning ? Please show me how you've done this

An example of fallacious reasoning might be randomly assigning mental disorders that don't exist, without any back up for your argument and without any experience in the field of mental health. Now that would be pointing out a fallacy in a line of reasoning.

Put down the crackpipe.

or completely misunderstanding the definition of said disorder.

Well, if it sounds that way to you, then you should go have your ears checked. I do know quite a lot about ADD/ADHD/ADS.

i just wasnt referring to them when i said 'attention deficit', okay?
If i had wanted to refer to them, i would named them. The term that is used predominantly in Germany is ADS btw, and there is a variant that combines the 'Daydreamer' with an occasional Hyper phase. It is often found with borderline genius kids.
How do i know? Well, its just that i was one of those kids Now tell me again i dont know what ADS is, please.

Yeah , np, i hope you dont mind if don't comment further on whats obvious:

Care to elaborate? Atleast from my command post it looks like i am still defending the very same positions that i did when the battle started.

and which contradictions are you referring to, exactly?

You didn't just say "attention deficit", you used the words "Attention deficit disorder" in the same sentence as "narcissistic personality" disorder (both DSM IV defined psychological disorders. If you didn't mean ADD, you should use the words "attention deficit disorder".

let's face it though. you know, I know and everyone reading this thread knows you used a psych term without really understanding the meaning of it,

in this corner we have- Mr. Fixit and in this corner we have OG, or ER or Saint.

Omigod, dont you get it? i have been reading 5-6 Books on ADHS, because I HAVE IT MYSELF !
Are you seriously trying to tell me i dont know what it is?
And while i am at it, it is not true that the term references solely to not being able to control ones own attention, as a side effect with many kids there also is a problem with external attention, for quite obvious reasons.

But i quote myself : "must be some kind of weird attention deficit."
the 'disorder' only came later, after ADD/ADHD were introduced.

wow, so you've read a book or two. congrats. then you should know better than to throw terminology around then claim you didn't mean what you said.

apperently, in that corner, theres ALL of them ...

But dont worry, i dont need fairness to win my fights

Not only did i not mean it, but also i did not say it ^^

I must have ADD, as I cannot be bothered anymore to see the back and forth anymore, lets get back to topic.

I still think most models are undernurished. I think we should start a program to start force feeding them a happy meal a week.

This is getting very tedious. I asked you to point out the fallacy in my reasoning you've done no such thing. You have invented your own definition of "sluttyness" (one which btw I don't agree with nor did I use when making the statement about control) and made judgements based on what I can only assume as personal experience.

Being able to choose who I sleep with and how often I do so (or choose not to do so) is all about being in control and not letting anything or anyone other than me dictate my behaviour.

okay, I was trying to stay out of this, but you just contraindicated yourself.

Did i? in which way?

I did not say that promiscuity was genreally due to ADD, and i did not want to say it either.

you were the first perosn to use the phrase attention deficit disorder, well before anyone else mentioned ADD.


note the date and time of your post. If you can find a post from someone else who used the term ADD before you did, then i stand corrected. You won't because they didn't. You used this term then back-tracked and tried to weedle out of it by saying you meant if was that person suffered by not getting enough attention, which is NOT the definition of attention deficiency disorder.

again, for your benefit:

What's this about sluttyness?

don't worry, MB, we are certainly not talking about you.