Alleged sexual assault by MIS students

My daughter has just started at junior school at the Munich International School. Nice place, nice people, but the news I have just heard really shocked me. The rapists (arrested and suspended from school) are 14 and 16! So, if your kids are there, what kind of environment is there at the senior school at MIS?

I think there are bad people wherever you go and as much as you want to protect your children you can only do this to an extent. Talk to your child about the incident. Keep open lines of communication and watch their friends. Good kids don't often hang out with bad kids.

Something similar happened in Massachusetts at Milton Academy last year, involving a 14 year old girl and a bunch of hockey players. It truly amazes me how different my life was at age 16.

Do you have a link? Not that I don't believe you, I need to forward it. Thanks.

Hi, I am the daughter of SillyOldSlapper and I have been at Munich International School since I was 10. I am currently in my last year (12th grade) and I just wanted to say to any parents with kids at MIS that they really dont need to worry. I have grown up at this school and i absolutely love it, what has happened is horrific but is not a picture of the senior school students whatsoever. Everyone I've spoken to about the incident is equally as shocked and I hope that nobody feels that this is a true reflection of the student body. The full details as to what happened are unknown as yet, so i think its best to avoid mass hysteria until the facts are straight.

Thank you, SOS junior. It will make my contact feel much better.

Excellent post miniSOS.

Wow, you're being nice to a teenager, Keydeck? That's so out of character for you. But I echo your sentiment. Good on ya.

But what kind of kids are these? Some say they are these very rich germans who have no one controlling them, but this is not just smoking pot, it is a very serious crime. It does not really happen everywhere, and you don't expect it to happen in such a nurturing environment.

Rape can happen anywhere. And remember it happens more than people are aware. It happens often times amongst high schoolers and their peers. It happened, so you say, at MIS and it happens at other "nice nurturing" schools.

Mini SOS - I'd just like to add that the rape did not occur on campus, as that seems to be implied.

Yes, it was at a private party.

It's true, rape does happen everywhere, even in Toytown (meaning Munich, not the forum). My best friend (32 years old) was raped by a 17 year old German 'schoolkid' right in the heart of Munich.

I used to tutor a boy from MIS, and I found it to be a very nice campus... So I wouldn't blacken the whole school's rep because of this.

I have a general feeling that 'rich kids' in Munich have a certain sense of entitlement, thinking they are above the law (the 17 year old mentioned above was also a 'rich kid'.) But maybe that's true to some extent of rich kids everywhere?

Why is it rape? Has anyone been convicted? Do you know the girl in question well enough to say that she didn't get drunk and have a gang-bang and upon reflection decided she was raped?

You know, it could still be rape when someone is drunk.

apparently the boys have taken pictures of the victim with their mobile phones while raping her. The phones have been confiscated by the police who came on campus. I don't know anything else. Yes, it could be that it was not rape, but two boys doing it and then taking pictures and stuff sounds quite rough to me...

I think with the child being only 14 and drunk to boot, it's technically rape even if she were begging for it (which I find highly unlikely).

It's all over the front page of the TZ today: Sex-Skandal um Starnberger Elite-Schüler (in German)

I'd also appeal to all to keep this is mind - this is an on-going criminal investigation and thus please be careful about posting rumour as fact even when that's never stopped the TZ from doing so. Should the events come to court, it would be a tragedy for all concerned to miss a fair trial.

And SillyOldSlapper should be proud of her daughter for that post.

Well said Katrina.

I'm not sure if "sexuelle Handlungen an ihr vollzogen haben" can be translated as rape (penetration). Not that sexual assault is any more acceptable.

I can't believe that "Happy Slapping" (the videoing on mobiles of assaults) has made it over here. Another successful British export story.

While the whole episode is reprehensible, I do think we need to be careful with jumping to conclusions and presuming guilt. Wait until the kids have been tried then we can safely demonise them.

"Sexuelle Handlungen an ihr vollzogen" sounds to me like she was comatose and they abused her. Thank heaven that they made the videos because they cannot argue that she agreed to any sexual activities when she's passed out cold. That doesn't make the deed itself any less despicable, just easier to prove.

Why was a 14yr old so drunk in the first place? Or so drunk that she passed out.

Because this was an unsupervised teenager party. At least I hope unsupervised, I cannot imagine any parent seeing that kind of drinking and tolerating it.

I was about the same age when I first got drunk.

This sounds very close to victim-blaming to me, which never fails to piss me off royally. I'd like to remind mere that there is no such thing as informed consent when it comes to drunks OR children (this one being both) and that anything done to one such individual is in fact technically rape. Hands off the drunk kid. They are NOT 'asking for it'.

whatever Kat. I was not blaming, but simply asking a question. and do NOT inform me what rape, consent and all that are. I'm more than well aware, perhaps better than some others/most, of what it all entails.

Any rape or sexual assualt is reprehensible, but until all the facts are known no-one should jump to conclusions. For those that have made their conclusions, please read the following

• http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ire/6113490.stm
• http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ies/6037701.stm
• http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy71.html
• http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075
• http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/n...-name_page.html

There are many more but I feel that it is wrong to assume guilt before everyone has had their "say".

Why do I feel this, particularly in the case of "rape"? I worked with a victim of a false accusation and the wife of victim of a false accusation.(In the case of the wife, her husband was accused, arrested and nearly charged with the rape of a 15 year old. The result of this particular case resulted in a law change in the UK). I can give more detail but it would take too long-a-post.

If they were all underage and all drunk, why does one's state of impaired judgement outweigh that of another simply based on gender?

It's not based on gender, it's based on what happened. If people touched/raped/filmed an unwilling or unconscious participant, that obviously is worse than someone passing out on their own, doing nothing to anyone else.

I am talking about some of the comments, not the actual case at hand because we don't know the details of that.
If she was passed out, that is another story altogether, but if she was actively participating then my question is valid.

I think this thread is in danger of becoming about something completely different. The story's there for all to see, why can't people just wait a little while before feeling the need to pass judgment/comment on something about which we all, to a man, know next to nothing.

Then open a new thread about rape then - any comments made need to be clearly defined whether they are linked to this specific case or not.

If there's a case to answer, it needs to be a fair trial - for the sake of all participants.

Yep a split off is called for. I have only read the last few statement and I can tell this has nothing to do with the intended thread subject.

I think that in this post mere is more concerned about the fact that the girl drank so much that she passed out, regardless of what happened afterwards.

Perfectly presented comment.

I had the misfortune of sharing a language class with a girl from New Zealand who seemed to know everything about everything and everyone. A couple of rape cases came up, about which she became most vociferous, and boldly claimed "all men were potential rapists". The cases proved unfounded, (which of course led to a conspiracy theory, despite the confession of the claimant to making up a pack of lies), she continued on her mission to preach that all men are potential rapists etc etc etc.

The worrying aspect of the above is that she is a school teacher for the 10-15 year old age group and obviously has influence. Would I let her near my children (if I had any)...absolutely not. (yep, she has been known to use this forum, according to her "spoutings"

Just spoken to a guy i work with whose daughter is at the MIS and he has confirmed that 3 of the pupils have been suspended following the incident and that the school has sent out a letter to all parents advising them of the alleged events.

It appears there were others involved also ( locals ) not from the school and that the girl in question is also not from MIS so really their name should not be brought into this.

Sarabyrd had it right i am told that the mishandlung was not limited to penetrative rape by person or persons.

A sad a shocking occurence no matter the whys or wherefores.

This is a thread about rape. Specifically one that may or may not have occured locally involving drunk minors (to which extent is also unknown) and others yet to be determined under circumstances yet to be determined. The comments here are "girl drunk therefore its automatically rape". I find those comments to be based on gender alone and with little to no supporting evidence as of yet in this particular case to justify such obviously gender biased remarks.

at the moment the whole incident is being reported as 'alleged', although the moble phone pictures are certainly damning evidence.
it happened in August, and the pictures were sent around the school to other kids via mobile phone, it was only in the last weeks that a girl went to the teachers & told them about the pictures.
it seems the school have dealt with it very well I'd say.
hope the girl involved, whatever happened to her, gets through it all okay.

How so? Has anybody here seen these alleged pictures or actually know what they show?

I don't really get this. We all have the potential to do pretty much anything so she's not wrong in her argument except that she's limited it to only men. Just as we all have the potential to be murderers or potential to be rocket scientists. Whether we live up or in this case down to our potential is another question entirely but the potential is there.

Methinks thou dost protesteth too much. I would not go so far as to call all men potential rapists, but the sad truth is that it's the rare gentleman indeed who will not take advantage of certain situations with a woman who wouldn't otherwise sleep with him if she were sober.

According to the newspaper report, it's actually sexual assault rather than rape, and as already mentioned it's alleged. In Germany, one is still innocent until proven guilty. That we've been told that there are mobile phone pictures of the incident doesn't change this.

this is very cynical. I wouldn't go so far as to use the word 'rare'.

Then you misuse my quote there.

I hope for a fair trial should the case come to court, a fair trial without prejudice for all participants, not just the female ones.

All men are potential rapists EDIT: only because they have the equipment, same as all women are potential victims for the same reason. It is up to each and every individual to try to do their damndest that rape doesn't happen. Abusing someone's physical or mental state means that the guy who does it didn't try hard enough.

All women are potential rapists.

This thread is bullshit, and Eurovol's last comment particularly so.

I absolutely and utterly object to this comment, it's the biggest pile of shite i have seen on here for a good while.

Do not tar all males with your prejudice madam !!

Indeed, that comment is roughly equal in terms of bullshit to Eurovol's last comment.