Employer Racism in Munich

can someone kindly fill me in as to why the special german green card for 'indian' it profis died in the arse/failed abjectly and also point out as to why these it profis would rather go to the states for more $ and opportunities?

Maybe because most Indian ITs speak English... and in the States they would be better understood than here behind the brezen-curtain...

I think aqua has point really. But I think its most relevant to the labour market, any society can put whatever restrictions it wants on foreign citizens working rights as far as I can see.

It has to do with citizenship and who the government feels should get jobs created by German businesses, not with racism. We are not saying that German companies refuse to employ German citizens of any particular ethnic / geographical background after all. (It is of course a serious point that citizenship can be restricted on racial grounds - but not in Germany as long as you were born here).

So labour market restrictions are more like part of an experiment in trying to balance responsibilties to citizens and generating wealth rather than a morally correct or incorrect thing.

If the experiment works then great and if it doesn't then something about it needs to change, but it can't be said to be 'wrong' or 'immoral' which I feel is what people mean when they say 'racist' here.

It is discriminatory of course - in so far as it pays attention to differences between people (whether they are EU citizens or not) but almost no human activities are indescriminate - pay attention to no differences whatsoever.

I don't think this kind of descrimination can be criticised on moral grounds - economic and 'common sense' grounds maybe.

> can someone kindly fill me in as to why the special german green card for 'indian' it
> profis died in the arse/failed abjectly and also point out as to why these it profis would
> rather go to the states for more $ and opportunities?

It failed because the dot com bubble burst. Before it was introduced every businessperson constantly whined about not being able to get the kind and numbers of IT experts they predicted they would need soon if their businesses continued to grow by 20-30% each year. Hundreds of thousands of high school graduates flooded the few existing IT universities without a clue of what they actually wanted to study and without knowing what is taught there, as long as it promised shitloads of money and had something to do with computers.
(Most of them quit btw since they didn't end up surfing the internet all day long as they had hoped)

That was the time when every failed student who had so far installed Windoze NT twice (and pretended to know W2K inside out) was able to land an IT job and raked in mad money. As we all know soon after that the market went south and most of the 23 year old wonder coders, network admins and database security experts went back to school or driving taxi wishing they had cashed in on their stock options a little earlier.

The main reason the IT industry wanted foreign experts was of course the following: after they fired everyone above 35 and hired the kids with the great visions who knew all the latest buzzwords they realized those spoiled brats demanded too much money for what little they knew, so they tried to find cheap replacements. Admitting 30,000 foreign professionals who actually finished their computer science classes into the IT sector certainly would have brought the salaries down.

And when the party was coming to an end everyone realised that you cannot make money and survive in the long run by having great visions and a big bale of venture capital but no working product in sight anytime soon all the vacancies for computer indians (and Asians) suddenly disappeared.

Why they all end up in the US instead of Germany? Because of the language, the bigger paychecks and that thing called the American Dream. germany simply doesn't appeal to them the way the US does.

Yeah right acquascutum, oh so generous Britain where refugees get £ 35 a week to live on and the shittiest accommodation that British council tenenats refuse to live in.

All the while a constant hate campaign from the gutter press the like of which most likely have not been seen in Britain since the Nazi loving Daily Mail ran a hate camapign against Jewish refugees in the 1930s!

Ah

Maybe people should read the Papers more..

I remember sometime ago, about people who are claiming asylum refused to stay in hotels because they were not good enough (They are good enough for the locasl to stay in) (by the way that was not an article from the daily mail

I can also read figures being used (If you can provide written proof they I think we would all be very impressed.. In my option this figure is about 200 pounds too little..take into account food, travel,clothes,health care)

And before anyone jumps onto the Racist bandwagon, I have plenty of friends from all countries, nationalities,ethnic background, colour) I dont mind anyone moving to anywhere in the world to better themselves (what does pi$$ me right off is that they them claim that they are being discriminated against..people if you dont like the country you have moved to then F*ck off, I would if I was in that position and dont come all the sh*t about I cannot because I am being persecuted)
Try having 4 kids and 2 crazy women after you for being persecuted:-)) (thats a joke too)

Well if your not happy in britain with the benefits then i would advise you to leave britain and our beautiful european kingdom ...We don^t non-europeans coming here and complaining that the unemployment benefits are not enough..nobody asked you to come here..maybe its better you stopped complaining and look for a job...

Regards
Power to our european kingdom society

I think you can meassure a society by how it treats the weakest and refugees are teated very badly in Britain.

Maintaining ife on £35 a week in Britain is next to impossible and hardly allows refugees their dignity. That fucking government seems to find the money to bomb Iraq all right, but not to fulfill its obligations to the Geneva Convention or to maintain a proper education system or whatever.

Ladies and gents - the trolling going on here is frankly astounding - can't we all just agree to dis-agree and let this thread die a natural death??

Dear sir,

First of all refugees in Britain get the best of treatment...They are given the best of everything from housing to clothes...they are given the oppurtunity to be educated...basically alot of these people do not want to work and want to suck the the system dry...refugees are treated with respect and are treated better than most british citzens are ...so whereever your are getting your facts Proobably in the some comic magazine your reading ...If britain mistreats refugees so badly then why is it that britain still gets 20,000 refugees a year..(remember word travels fast).
regarding spending money on the iraq war ...America spent over 80 billion dollars on this war a little less than what britian spent ...And even though britain spent alot of money they still contribute alot more money and treat refugees a lot better than the americans do ...I read a report that alot of refugees in america a left to defend for themselves and are given nothing ...by the way refugees in brtain are given up to 140 pounds a week,plus a house,free travel costs,and and and ...

regards,
Society of educating no european nationals

Well... look on yourself.

Everytime and everywhere a war is starting or it's worth to gettin' started
the U.S. Military is the first who volounteers.

Look on the Vietnam war, Golf war or even the Iraq war.

Take a look on your own history. What's about the indian's which lived before
in America. You have stolen their country and gave them a lil' square where
they can live now. How bad is this.

For the benefits:

And as 'yomama' wrote:
How you survive while all your property and your job are in the US is your problem, not theirs.

Actually, in the interview to get a green card you have to prove that you have between
15 and 20 Grand cash to survieve the first year without gettin' a job.

Oh People

The Power of the pen is mightier that the sword

Just think, if we would be countries this would be a war, But alias the power of " freedom of speech" (even if some is badly informed or interpreted) is so great that we have an option to express our inner thoughts and ideas

Oh wise one ...

For all non european speaking people this is called classic english ...Respect!!

Unemployed refugees may not have the best of lifestyles, but its probably better than the warzone they came from, and I think many of them end up with jobs. What I cant understand is why do people hate them so much? Why do countries try to keep them out? They bring cultural benefits, make society more colorful and interesting, its good for our kids in the schools to talk to and learn from refugee kids and hear about how good westerners have it, and exposes them to how different the third world lives. Employers demand them, they cost little and work hard. They are willing to do jobs that most locals are too qualified for.

I cant understand why countries refuse to let refugee boats land (or lets them land only to put them in prison camps), not only is it cruel and inhumane, its ignoring the benefits that refugees bring. New Zealand is happy to take on refugees everytime Australia turns them away, as they integrate fast, are grateful for the opportunity, most of them get jobs that NZers dont want... We still have only 2% unemployment, and the refugees open up excellent cheap ethnic food stalls. Its a win win situation!

"We have a firm commitment to NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are part of Europe"

This is what the president of the united banana states said in an actual interview while he was on a visit to europe !!! God i love you yankee..

Regards,
Captain amreica

Some more nice statements from the most powerful man in the world but not the most educated man in the world !!!

I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.

We're going to have the best educated Americans in the world.

Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children.

It's time for the human race to enter the solar system.

The French don't have a word for "Entrepreneur."

The inhabitants of Greece are the Grecians.

regards,
Friends of the banana Republic of America

that's why they're all clambouring to get to the UK then.
to get accommodation, education for their children and free health care.
how terrible.

true.
poor buggers cant get over to uk fast enough.

promised land - div 2.

Very true, They must be so forced to come and stay in the UK, Or which every country they decide

What bollocks!

Off to find some links on realities of life as a refugee in Britain and how FEW refugees Britain actually take.

IMHO, refugees are the "new Jews" as a scapegoat, I thought you'd be above the "Sun" level by now if you were positng on Toytown TBH.

Argue about refugees and racism all you like, but don't start knocking the good old currant. I would be lost without my morning dose of football gossip, and random articles about nothing in particular.

Its a shame when people are never able to listen to other people views without being to critical.

What we have are different options, and we have fought Wars to allow people these rights.

Grtho, even with figures and facts, who do you think creates these??

Please find your links and may "The force be with you"

DR, it's a scab newspaper. Read the Mirror, read the Star, read anything you like but not that filthy rag.

Remember Hillsborough? Where the police caused a dangerous situation that resulted in the tragic horriiffic deaths of tons of Liverpool fans?

Next day, the Scum LIED and said the Liverpool fans were drunken hooligans, deliberately hammpered the police effort, pissed on and robbed the dead bodies.

Anyway, here's some refugee links to clear up some tabloid myths.

the last one is from a hard left communist group but it isn't trying to sell you their brand of marxism and is easy to read and worth a look.

http://www.defend-asylum.org/
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/
http://www.ncadc.org.uk/
http://www.workerspower.com/downloa...LiesLeaflet.pdf

I did not realise that Liverpool Fans were weighed in tons:-)))

But thanks for the Links , when i am not hanging myself or slashing my Wrists I will take a look

Oh come on, figures from orgs called "defend asylum" and "refugeecouncil" are going to be as unreliable as figures from "fuckoffwhereyoucamefrom.com" or whatever.

how dare you knock the sun & its knockers.

IIRC, the Refugees Council is a government funded body, they are not likely to print wild claims that can't be backed up.

Anyway, we've gone of on a tangent, start a thread on refugees if you want.

grtho
<who would not wipe his arse on the Sun>

fuckoffwhereyoucamefrom.com is a great site I'll have you know

But really this is fun some of these comments made here - the English get alot of Refugee applications as do Ireland, which is a little strange as you are only permitted as far as I know to apply for asylum in the first country you enter after leaving your country... now unless there are lots of daily flights to Dublin from all these refugee countries then I don't see how they end up in Ireland first...

Maybe they search for it the same way they search for any country which offers the best handouts... like they did Germany in the 80's and early 9's and now that Ireland and the UK are doing well they decide to get on the 'gravy train'...

By the way don't class the refugees in the UK as being the new 'Jews', this is simplistic and makes no sense to anyone with a brain... the two cases are extremely different...

I sort of remember the "war on terror" from certain countries

which issued figures, facts, and all sorts of things that cannot be backed up

Therefore the true is like a dirty pond, the more deeper you go the more shit that gets in your eyes

"lies, damned lies and statistics".

I, as an ex-Finance Controller, am a dab hand at inventing stats and numbers to back up any theory. Therefore I never believe statistics unless I fabricate dthem myself

scum bag rag too.
look at the way the stiched up british soldiers in iraq and increased the danger on their lives.
ask piers morgan about this.

Yeah, the Mirror isn't the best paper either imvho but it isn't a scab rag like the Scum and does, sometimes stick up for the oriduary working man or woman's interest in the way that Murdochs shite rag never does.

Piers Moron is a twunt, glad he landed on his arse.

But who's the bloke putting most lives in danger?
Lives in 10 frigging Downing Street , the lying bastard!

I completely agree, that lying fucker needs to have the same treatment as the people in those prisons (lets see you smile then you smarmy bastard)

jeff hoon i reckon.
give the boys the right tools to do the job.

bring back the good old honest tories.

think we need a hung parliament meseln.

is blair a liar or just over enthusiastic?

Afghanistan was supposed to stop supply of heroin and remove a nasty regime that was installed by errrrrrrrm western imperialist interests.

Iraq was supposed to get rid of weapons of mass destruction (Britain and the USA allowed to keep their of course) and remove a nasty regime that was installed by errrrrrrrm western imperialist interests.

And as for a hung Parliament, are there really enough lamposts in Parliament Square in London, like 650?

the tories will save the nation.

Now you really ARE trolling sweetie!

well...
if you don't want blair that's all you're left with.

I will NOT be voting for the Tories, I'll probably vote Liberal Democrat in the vague hope of a hung parliament. weird that the LibDems are WAY to the left of Labour sometimes now.

What we need though, is a revolution...oh well.

@grtho

with your right wing rants i'd thought you'd ge voting BNP.

<Spanks acquascutum severely>

i wish i saw this page earlier

HOORAY to "acquascutum" correct WE ARE NOT IN THE US!

And yes if you work in Europe you need the European passport ... If you worked in the US you need a US VISA...

And i have to say without being to much of a prick that if there wasnt a law in the US for something - it wouldnt be the US...

But this is not a slandering message id like to again add that i guess im lucky to have paid 10 Australian dollars for my EU Passport 10 years back. And i nowpaynothing more to renew it. I thank my parentsfor that as i was undecided at the tender age of 15 he he heeee...

if you dont agree call me a slag... i take criticism well - Im an aussie

Just see by Yourself

"To submit a resume for this position, you must place
US47201/MB/430C1204OF in the subject line of your e-mail. Send
your resumes to: Staffing.Jobs@manpower.com in text format. Do
not send e-mail attachments.
Candidates responding to this posting must currently possess the
eligibility to work in the United States.

Manpower has the job connections you need! For over 50 years, "

All the job offers i have seen for the US always mention this...
Why shall it be different in Europe.

I think it 's still quite easy for none European to work here , cause
most of the time if you really feet in the job description, some
companies will off u a contract via an Outsourcing company.

Me and also my colleagues( loads are Non E.U citizens) are working
in the EPO through this system and it works

Good luck

Jenny