Graffiti everywhere in Berlin

Was in Berlin last week, and will be moving there in January. Is it just me, or does it appear that just about every Strassenbahn or S-Bahn have their windows scratched up with barely legible scrawlings. Furthermore, almost every street corner, lamppost or wall has these same illegible scrawlings! It was also quite sad to see the beautiful paintings on the east side gallery with graffiti all over them.

The graffiti I am talking about is not anything that a normal person could consider artistic. It is the ugly, barely legible scribblings that are left by some 14 year old tagger who thinks he's gonna be famous by writing his name with black spraypaint down the entire street. That is really an eyesore. Are Berliner's already immune to it? It seems like that is the only thing I noticed that was omnipresent during my last visit to Berlin... the Graffiti.

Is anything being done about the Graffiti problem in Berlin?
And are there districts in Berlin that are relatively free of Graffiti?

Here ya go dude: Tagging

Graffiti is very prevalent in Berlin, yes. More so than in other German cities. See also the related posting: Graffiti'ed Berlin election posters.

Well, I have lived here all my life, and I still find the graffiti very annoying. I guess some people do get used to it, just cause they don't want to have their days being ruined by it, but I wish these stupid kids would just find another outlet for their frustration or demonstration of "coolness" or whatever. It's just WAY too much here, and as you said, we are not talking about arty graffiti here but these illegible scribblings (their "signatures")... And the scratching is just completely nuts and doesn't make sense to me at all. Ugh.

A few days ago saw a team from the city council (?) scrubbing the underpass in Leipziger Strasse until it was gleaming ... the graffiti down there was unreal! I went through it today and some the walls have already been defaced. It's a vicious circle. Graffiti police urgently needed me thinks!

City of Portland discovered an odd thing a while back, public murals or art are much less likely to be tagged.

What about all those 1 euro per hour job holders? Wouldn't it make sense to put them on graffiti cleanup? It would be nice if Berlin would adopt a no tolerance of graffiti policy. Once graffiti is spotted, it would be cleaned within 12-24 hours. One of the main goals of the graffiti vandals is to have their "signature" on a highly visible place for as long as possible.. Take that away from them, and they might actually think about doing something productive instead of vandalizing every street corner.

Now do you really think so? I am being serious. I do not believe this and am willing to agree to disagree. I am just curious if you really think it will diminish graffiti.

Berlin already has a few artworks on the sides of buildings along the Stadtbahn. I think the only one that's actually sanctioned is the "Three Worlds" mural between Savignyplatz and Zoo. (I actually looked at a few apartments in that building!) There are also a couple of pieces of what are probably graffiti, but the artistic kind we don't mind seeing: the Reagan/Clinton/Bush trio in Savignyplatz and the bizarre bit of poetry (poetree?) in Bellevue.

Defacement of the East Side Gallery is disturbing; didn't they set aside the west side of that section of wall so that contemporary graffiti artists could express themselves without overwriting the historical artwork?

There are a few areas here in Berlin that have "professional Graffiti" on the building faces, these have been made by professional artists who have been paid/invited to construct murals rather than indiscriminate scribblings. The up side of these murals is that they are visually appealing and i have not seen one that has been tagged by another would be artist. Is it respect to the artists or what?

As an artist I would have to say yes or at least an understanding. I have never tagged nor have the desire to tag. I have come across some very moving peices and have also come across some items that I can care less for ( it is not my place to say what is good and not good) . I will also say I have seen more political tagging here which I definately appreciate a great bit (someone sprayed "Nazi Raus!" here last year and it has yet to be removed by the city). While a friend was here last year we went through areas of Munich photographing graffiti items. Like I said some good some I could care less for.

There you go... Took this picture in July.

[img]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5716/rcbgraffitidk3.jpg[/img]

Would anyone consider this artistic? This is the type of graffiti vandalism that is very prevalent in Berlin.

I read that Auckland, NZ has a zero tolerance policy against graffiti vandalism and its working out good for them. They have increased the punishment for graffiti vandalism and have special graffiti removal teams to remove any graffiti within 12-24 hours. They have established hotlines and rewards. The end result is that the streets are once again clean, and the artists have their own areas set aside to express their creativity. Furthermore, tourism also increased by about 10-15%. My understanding is Berlin supposedly spends $500 million euros per year just to clean up graffiti vandalism on the streets and public transport.

Also, Switzerland has implemented, or will be implementing a similar zero tolerance policy because of the increasing graffiti vandalism there too.

Hmm interesting. So I have to assume that you do believe that it will diminish graffiti/tagging. That was all I was curious about.
cheers!

What I think is daft though is when people paint the wall of a building white. Its like, just asking to be grafittied! Most of all in Berlin. The way to deal with it is to paint walls dark colours. OK they can use white spray, but its much less common. And also to paint over any graffiti the moment it appears. If the Hausmeister responsible for the building does that within 24 hours after a while they will give up and go elsewhere.

I agree.

Also not to take this in another direction but the one thing I hate about germany is that there are too many dull colored buildings ie white..yellow.. tamed out green. Well at least it is that way here in the oberpfelz.

Wha-wha-wha. Cry me a freekin river. And this is not directed at the above poster, the name was changed. However, the comments are typical, and so selected.

Many ideas, many truths. The maturity, to trust the above idea had truth, while continuing to fathom others equally, and not push to place a lot of weight on any of it. As one steps out of stifling religion, and codified authritarianism, it becomes easy to understand multiple things can be true at the same time (which is to say you, dear reader, can choose).

The reason there is graffiti everywhere, is class-warefare. I applaud those who do it. To understand this, means being willing to comprehend the association between rents, property valuations, and graffiti. This is the most important reason why graffiti exists. The average, stuffy unevolved paper-pusher will not pay €€€€€€€€ for a place if there is graffiti all around.

Good for 'us', and bad for 'those who are too anal about it'.

I don't care why children feel the need to gunk up buildings etc with graffiti. It's trashy. Trashy kids spray paint sides of buildings. Trashy kids scratch their initials into the sbahn windows. Trashy kids ruin bus stops with big black permanent markers writing very clever things like "Fuck school". It's got nothing to do with income. There's plenty of poor kids that don't go around doing that. They want class warfare? Perhaps they should try breathing in a few less paint fumes and learn to articulate themselves appropriately.

A fab example of class warfare on the S8 (in Munich).

Yep, it's here in Munich too.

To me, there's a big difference between some idiot writing crap on a pole in the train and someone putting in a lot of work to artistically make something that actually looks nicer than the original surface. JennyL's picture is the type of graffit that ticks me off, Stevegus's is the type I can admire.

I went to Pacific U. for a year and graffiti on this old cement bench kept it like new (rumor has it for over 120 years). Constantly being painted...

http://www.pacificu.edu/alumni/sac/PhotoAlbum.cfm
scroll to "Painting the Spirit Bench"

Dude, going to the loo is the first step to recovering from anal retentiveness. The only casualty from graffiti could be arguably natural brick, but then brick buildings might be painted up to 12 feet or so, as a renewable canvas.

Graffiti brings life and good weathering to urbia. And is replaceable, sermon, sermon, sermon.

Jesus loves you, go get saved. Yada, yada.

Ohmigawd. Somone else thought it was anal. I swear I hadn't read this before.

Although, I disagree it is class warfare. There, I have expressed myself for today. I'll leave the spray can in its place.

It comes as no surprise to anyone I know here that 90% of my friends back home do graffiti/tagging. I will also say I have never had the inclination to ask them why they do it. Never crossed my mind. I do not agree with the class warfare syndrome though. One of the most rampant taggers in Portland that finally got caught turned out to be a trust fund baby from a wealthy family attending Reed College.

A side story ( and you knew one would come) was that once my best friend and I were having coffee at a coffee shop that I always hung out at near her house. She turned to me and said out loud " You know I find it odd that every building in Lauralhurst is tagged except this one" Everyone stopped drinking for a millisecond then went back to drinking. Ha-ha.

There was a guy who was tagging pretty much the whole London underground over the last few years - Toxic was his name. You could keep track of when he tagged because he'd add the year always and sometimes the month - Toxic 04 or Toxic 306 type of thing.

Anyway he eventually got caught after costing millions of pounds of damage himself. He turned out to be a private school boy and son of a top Barrister. Certainly no class war there!

I think we can all agree that most of us are pissed off about the Graffiti that look like illegible scrawling or chicken scratch. The kind that makes no sense, and you see plastered everywhere and etched into almost every U-bahn window. I don't think anyone is complaining over the artistic murals that you see painted around the city. Its the tagging that we dont like.. in fact, I have seen several mural defaced with graffiti tagging, including the east side gallery. I too don't buy the argument that its social or class related. There are many kids in well to do families, who love to tag their name down the entire street.

The question is, is there anything we can do about it?

Maybe you don't mind having your property tagged with some kid's initials, maybe you don't mind having your windows scratched up so badly that you can barely see out of them. Hell, there could be a whole lot of things that do not bother you... but... Leave a piece of shit out on the front of your doorstep and after a few days you'll see that it too "brings life"..

Of course you are entitled to your own opinions.. but the majority of normal people probably do not appreciate these taggings.

I don't mind people artistically expressing their selves, but if these kids think that there are so many people out there that want to see their scribblings, perhaps they should put them on a canvas and sell them for money instead of painting every street corner for free!

Got some evil graffiti on a disabled toilet round the corner from me. Will take a snapshot if I remember. But Nazism is alive and well over here.

I remember the graffitty all over the ground floor from living in Berlin- Friedrichshain.
I moved to Zehlendorf a couple years ago- and there is hardly any.
So it is not all over Berlin!
Do you need help in finding a place to live?
I would be happy to be of assistance- also with all the administration papers, schools etc.

Hi Kathi,

I sent you a private message. I would be interested in your opinion on relatively clean areas of Berlin near S Bahn station Adlershof. What do you think of Treptow, Niederschoenenweide or Baumschulenweg?

Hmm I was just reading the latest on Banksey getting an exhibition. What is everyones opinion on them. I started a thread regarding baksey a year ago but it looks like it has been deleted.

It's not all about class-warfare, black or white, 0 or 100. I'm glad it inspired comments.
My comment is the element which is very strong in the talk I've heard from people who actually do it. People also do non-sensical expressions with spraypaint on walls as they feel too. Drawing in caves. It's a human thing.

This discussion (sometimes) has been like the comparison between the lived-in room, and the apartment which is so freaking clean I feel I am being 'sterilized' from being in it. Bacteria is a normal part of life. No, it doesn't mean I like the guy next to me who hasn't bothered to bathe in two months, but oh well, GET OVER IT! I do brush the bowl, but I don't break out the toxic chemical mixture straight outta Auschwitz, from Schlecker.

Like the other poster said, stop being so anal. And yes, there are less graffiti'd areas of berlin. OT: There are also (related) areas with a NPD supporters and german flag wavers, which means the same nationalistic idiot-deck thing as in the U.S.A. However, thankfully, here people are more aware of the significance. I guess you could trade NPD with Republican and German flags with U.S., and mabye a couple of nazi swasticas and it'd all be about the same thing. http://mostlywater.org/the_end_of_the_bush_dynasty. End OT.

nah not really I dont give a shit if things are tagged. What is art and what is not art is up to someone to decide. I just want to f*cking paint/draw/photograph. In fact the outside door to my building got tagged evidently two weeks ago. My downstairs neighbor was furious ( I had the unfortunate chance off running into him today) he was all mad saying how he owned his flat etc etc property value etc etc. He asked me what I thought i was just like dude I got a kilo of tomtoes I am gonna cut up, then dice this onion, throw in some olive oil Id been saving from greece, and then make this fersh pasta I just bought. So I dont care besides I live free.Sorry.

@s2s2

to bad your not in munich we could burn one
cheers

Yo I live right by Alexanderplatz, and there is this Telephone booth there that has no more glass encasing it because someone smashed it through. Why does the city bother replacing it. Everytime its replaced and looks nice again the next evening someone smashes it through. Why waste money replacing these things if your not going to do anything to combat it?

like people have nothing better to do than bitch about graffiti.

berlin is way ghetto, get used to it.

maybe you could find something more productive to bitch about, like all the damned hundscheisser.

Your interpretation of what is 'artistic' or not is just that: Your interpretation. Perhaps to some the "barely legible scribblings" are art. Just some food for thought.


Well, I really don't know what residents feel about it but maybe it is not a "problem" to others.

It's graffiti. They're scum scrawling their bullshit on other peoples property. They should have their wrists broken. I would gleefully carry out the job myself. Whether it's quality art or random scribbles is irrelevant. You write on my shit, I'll fuck you up, simple as that.

It's a little different when talking about private property... I assumed it was mostly public spaces being talked about.

Hey cosine, how about I tag your apartment? Inside. Would my artistic symbols be appreciated there? Would you really want to see my BD scrawl spraypainted all over your walls, your posters/art, and written on your books? How about I scratch "FAHK YUO" into all your windows?" Is that art? How long would you go before repainting?

I'm fine with anyone who has permission from the owner or caretaker of any piece of property to slap up a mural or a memorial. Anyone else? Kill.

I chase down and hurt taggers.

woof.

Dunno. Here, anyone I see with a ground floor apartment, has shutters. vinyl kind or metal, which roll up and away, like a 'dutch door'. What are they called?

I was wondering what the smell was. Seriously, I knew the cool old neighbor guy was working in his garden when the smell of steer manure floated through the air.

With deference to your point, which I agree with, the majority of normal people can f-off.

woot!

burn one. I thought you meant a flag. oh, and then, what kind? i had to read about three posts before the part of my brain which grinds out things on idle went bing! i'm already there, and defo crazy; taking medication to stick around with the majority of normal people.

Since the majority of nay-say posters are concerned about money, like they are straight outta [west germany] or sumfin, you can go live in the upscale (old west) areas of town, and pay the big euro notes. there's room in berlin for both. i find that crap stuffy. remember today on the beeb about the flooding? some people looked poor, yet happy. not that I wanna be wading down the centre of the street. naw, I've done poverty mindset already. not for me.

I'm waiting for your comment on what I wrote, s2s2. How about letting me get all artistic on your personal belongings and on the walls you have to look at every day?

Taggers have no problem with the destruction of other people's property but they always have shitfits if something of theirs is touched. Voice of experience.

woof.

in case you didn't notice -
i indicated in my last post that i didn't realize private property/homes/etc were what were being talked about.
i'd be upset too. but public spaces, etc are slightly a different matter

What exactly do you mean by public spaces? Bus shelters, the windows of busses/trams/trains, what remains of the Berlin wall? Is that ok too?

y'all that hate tagging and graffiti would really hate my apartment building, the graffiti is the only thing holding the plaster and mortar on.

i can do without the broken beer bottles tho.

To all graffiti artists out there. Never forget: The eye of the shitbird is watching you (found on a berlin street last weekend).

more here: http://www.imaginator.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=50086

At least Berlin doesn't react to graffiti of cartoon characters by shutting down the city and calling the bomb squad. 2007 Boston magnetic light scare

What I don't seem to get is, where in the hell are the police when the vandalism is occurring? Seems to me that they're everywhere except where they need to be.
They should have those the folks who are sitting on their asses at home collecting unemployment checks because it's not lucrative enough for them to get off their asses and find a job on some sort of a work program, and have them scrub up the grafitti. This country hands out cash as if it grows on trees, and it's absolutely ridiculous.

This is where the police are...

(Police office shot dead a guy who had smashed the glass of a bus stop with one of those little red hammers that he stole from a train!)

Excellent job!

Think I would have just chopped his hands off to be honest! Killing him was maybe a bit extreme

I agree gooner, it was a bit harsh. Maybe he can appeal and get a lighter sentence.