Neger - a mix of Weißbier and cola

JML, "nigger" has been "re-claimed" by (some) usually young black men in the same wway some gays have "reclaimed" the word "queer". But to used with extreme caution.

Seeing it in print is a natiral development of this.

again no. The racism comes not from the etymology but from how the words were used.

But the drink and the chocolate are black, the term neger coming from the word for black.

Well, sorry, yes I AM that stupid, because this line of thinking is actually weird and never ever crossed my mind when eating a N. Use to call them 'Mohrenkopf' anyway, so there you go

Maybe that's the connotation you get when eating it but I certainly wouldn't have ever put that together. Only a racist could think that way.

And you don't think that this country and river were named that because of the skin colour of the indigenous peoples?

Wiki - Niger

@OG For an African to have dark skin is typical not stereotypical. Both Anglophone and Francophone Africans, east, west and south use the terms black and white or noir and blanc when talking about Africans and Westerners displaying a more adult appreciation of a difference in appearance.
Also I think on the PC-Richter scale if Nigger were a 10 Neger would be closer to a 3.

Thought I'd very quickly ask if Lassie thinks that's a perjorative name for a drink. I never order them with a curry myself, but I've seen loads of other people do so.

From Wiktionary:


It will always be used in conjunction with "dark" or "darkness" because that's what the fucking word means, just as "Negro Modelo" is a darker (in colour and body) Mexican beer. Whether "negro" or "neger" or "negére", they're all variants of the original Latin word "niger"

"Poking fun at physical attributes" isn't "pejorative". Kamé here thinks that word is a hoot.

woof.

Political correctness has turned "Negerkuss" into "Schaumkuss" now

first time i'd heard it tbh. but calling anything nigger or the equivalent does pique my conscience.

You should be shot for polluting a decent Weißbier with anything other than the end of your tongue so the whole thing is bollocks anyway.

Some pretty convoluted thinking there. I wouldn't have come up with it in a million years.

The point to all this pc nonsense is not whether we find it offensive but whether those who are apparently targeted here find it offensive. If they do, then the term shouldn't be used. I can claim up, down and sideways that when I use a term I don't mean it offensively and I may well not but if it creates offense then I shouldn't use it (unless I'm purposely trying to offend).

I think its a crap drink for the Verein to be selling at the bar anyway.
Everything is bottled and you can never use the other half of the bottle.
So we're charging €2,80 for drinks worth €4,40.

ER, yeah. The Verein is trying to attract more people who are non-Germans so it is relevent.

It's a crap drink because it mings to high mong, you mean.
How many non-Germans drink it? Not that many I think.
Will the non-Germans know what it is? Possibly only in the negative sense and not in the Cola-Weizen sense (also negative).
Cola-Weizen is the name you should use, pick up some drink cards from similar places as a comparison to hopefully help your argument.

sorry, but that is the history of the term.

Just like "Mohrenkopf" which is the other term for them. This term comes from French and means "Moor's head". You hardyl have to be Einstein to see the racist connotations there. It is not as if we call balls of Vanilla Icecrem "Honkey Heads" is it?

In that case if it's a matter of catering to your target market, I would say don't use the term.

Germans know and understand their history with the word, I know for certain that it is used by germans and not meant offensively, not to say that it can't be used offensively but that often it is not. The non-germans won't understnad this and I can see how it could be offensive to them.

Nobody but a bunch of whinging whiteys ever says anything about it. No black I've ever met or served was offended by Negerküß or Neger as in Colaweizen. Some black Americans were first surprised by the term but once they realised what it was it didn't bother them. The same people have been offended by being called "Neger" as a pejorative term. Big difference, just like French people and "frog": talk about them little green hoppers and they'll join in the conversation; call them one and you might regret it.

woof.

Not just foreigners. many Germans consider the term to be racist. my Great grandfather didn't consider calling black people "darkies" as being racist but anyone saying the word today would certainly be looked at as being racist.

That was a feeble and failed attempt at humor on my part. I was referring to the Indian drink Lassi.

oh, i get it. ha ha, ahem...

what about drinks called after black politicians like "Lumumba"?
(http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/rezept/1288.htm)
Is that racist?

Was your great grandfather a racist?

My point is terminology does not make a person a racist.

"Negro" in Spanish means black
Black is a colour: Ojos negros, for example
When talking about races: there are negros -black people- blancos -white people-.
If you go to some Spanish speaking countries you will hear "mi negra" which would be like "my darling" and nothing to do with racism...

my two cents..

Golden rule and to cut all the crap. if you feel it may offend dont use it. basta.

i know enough people who are black who dont like it and your working in the public arena so dont use. who cares if white person a thinks its ok. as ER rightly said, its the person who it refers too and his feelings thats important. thats called manners not pc.

but there again if your white and perfectly formed and never had to suffer "humourous" remarks about what god gave you for genes it acceptable to believe that the other person thinks its humourous.

So do they drink Bananaweizen here in Bavaria? Saw it in the East all the time.

That's the explanation I'm familiar with. The French may have lent the expression "tête de Maure" to other languages but it didn't prevent them from using an even worse one - "tête de nègre" - instead.

see post 28 on this thread. and i'll leave my feelings on this matter at that. because that is what matters not a couple of honkies have a prick length competition.

I agree with you but lets also remember that it's really easy to get on our sanctimonious high horses and be offended on behalf of someone or something when we really can't comprehend what racism is and what it means to the people that are effected by it.

Do we really have a right to be offended on behalf of someone else? To me that can be kind of insulting to have dictated to me by someone else what I should find offensive to me.

to be honest, i cant believe that you can use words like that here, i've heard white people calling black people neger, and they dont mind it here, i was amazed.

if someone said that in London, and to a friend, they'd get killed literally.

There are a lot of people who can be disingenuous when they want to be!!!

A word acquires meaning not only from it's roots but also on how it is and has been used. So the word nigger, as has been pointed, out acquired racist connotations as a result of it being used to put down people of African descent. Therefore, the word has racist connotations!

However, it is wrong to mix-up meaning and intention. Thus if someone calls me a Golliwog, I will rightly take offensive (just in the way it was intended). However, if I see a Golliwog on a jam jaw..I am intelligent distinguish between what is a product brand and a racist insult. Even if, I repeat even if the word imagine conjures up negative feelings.

But I find it lazy thinking of those that shut down any of these debates with - oh it's political correctness again. I learnt very quickly in the 90s that lazy/ignorant thinking on the right of the political spectrum is normally cloaked with the non-intellectual put down "silly PC shite�. Speaking from a chap who is Rightwing politically...

And for those that wish to make fun about the word "Black": Please stop to consider this point - which nationality on this planet gets referred to by the colour of the skin. i.e. Americans are Americans, Germans are Germans, Chinese are Chinese even sub national sets get their own cross dual tag i.e. Italian Americans. However, the one group that acquires an ethnic/racial tag has been people of African descent. So for this reason in the USA “black� has fallen out of favour as group term; becoming outdated (African American is now used).

Having said the above, I'm happy to still be referred to as Black since I come from those wonderful island called UK where the term black is perfectly acceptable and African British sounds contrived…but still I do not use my ignorance belittle the term African-American or black in terms of the debate about words or how to use them….

Before anyone nit picks - white is normally only used in reference to i.e. non-white but is not normally substituted for a national group or sub group.

this is from a similar discussion on an Austrian forum about the word:


basically, (s)he says that anyone who claims that the word "Neger" is not racist doesn't know the history of the word, or pretends not to know it. The word is the same as (sic) Niger. It comes from the time of slavery etc.

he certainly didn't consider himself to be racist. Just like many people who find the word "Negger" to be acceptable don't consider themselves racist. It still doesn't make the use of the word ok, though.

Just wanted to add for those hiding behind the etymology of the word - negro/black/nigger.

If you honestly believe that "Negro" is an acceptable word to refer to black people because it means black in Spanish then I would suggest use it...(outside of Spain).

If you are not willing to use it and use it to the face of black people then ask yourself the question why not...maybe as I pointed out later words may have roots but they also acquire meaning by connotation/history and use...and I for one as a black man don't wish to step back a few decades into being labelled Negroid...Negro nor Nigger even if you righly point out it refer to "black" and is derrived from latin...

Going into a foreign country and then getting upset that they use certain words in a manner which is clearly not intentionally offensive shows an utter lack of respect and manners far outweighing any claims of the opposite. Foreign country, different rules, deal with it.

You're just as guilty of this shit as anyone else, gideon:

You have no idea about the shit I've been through. You assume because I'm white that everything's been peachy for me and couldn't imagine that I may have been one of maybe five whites living in a particularly rough area for some years.

woof.

Never heard of the terms 'Yellow Peril' or 'Rothaut'?
and a NFL team the 'Washington Redskins'?

as i said post 28 and then what stanford said.

i'm happy with the size of mine.
honk.

BD, plenty of Germans don't like it either it seems.

Do you beleive that only those people in Germany who have a "Suppenhühn" on their passport should have anything to say about how things are in society? So excluding 30% of the population of my local Stadbezirk for example?

@Kwenga,

I knew someone would nit pick...thanks for confirming what I expected...It's quite clear I was referring to general terms for a group of peoples without offending them or putting them down! So Chinese in everyday speak are not Yellow...

And yes I have heard those terms...and still doesn't negate the point why Black American became African American...or Red Indian became Native American...

I'm going to assume this was directed at me. I certainly don't hide behind any etymology. I generally stay away from using any such grouping style terminology to describe anyone regardless of skin colour, size, gender whatever. what I do believe is that it's far more important to consider the intent behind the word than the word itself.

As OG said, he had a grandfather who likely wasn't a racist but used the term darkies. That does not make him a racist. Generally speaking the term nigger is seen as racist because culturally we have evolved enough that the word has become unacceptable to use. The term neger may well be on it's way there but it's a far cry from from being an accurate comparison. When a person uses the term nigger they know that it is offensive and unacceptable and are using it despite or more likely because of that. Neger is still more ambiguous, some find it offensive and some do not. Do I see it eventually coming to connote the same thing as the term nigger? Yes but at this point that isn't the case, there are still plenty of people in Germany that use the term without meaning offense, if you wish to call them ignorant then you might not be entirely wrong. But to call them offensive shows a lack of understanding for the cultural association with the word.

I don't think anyone on here has been hiding for the last 50 years and doesn't know that the word 'nigger' is offensive.

I think the only problem arises when white/caucasian/pink/whatever we are, see black people calling each other nigger with no offence meant or taken, is that a joint "we're all oppressed" thing or what makes it ok ?

You could also extend that same logic (and it has been done) to other aspects of life. As long as we're talking drinks, let's rename the Irish Car Bomb. Then, let's move on to sports teams... Cleveland Indians, Atlanta Braves, Kansas City Chiefs, etc...etc...etc. If it wasn't seen as offensive when it first came into existance, then why change now? Because people have become so friggin sensitive about everything. Bah.

Now, I'm not condoning racism of any kind, but I also think that PCness is an irritant. Everyone is afraid to say anything at the risk of offending someone. You need to draw the line somewhere.

I'd be happy if someone named a type of beer after me! it's an honor! no such thing as pink freckly beer though is there

I didn't say he wasn't a racist. He just didn't consider himself to be racist.

@ER,

It was directed at you in some ways but also I wanted to use it to explain why Black as a term can have connotations...notwithstanding the fact it is a stupid terms to refer to people who have brown skin anyhow!!

BadDoggie even has a point but takes a little to far by dismissing those that raise these questions out of hand by saying it is a different culture and words have different sensitivities etc. He takes the point two far by dismissing MonksTown when MonksTown points out this has been raised by Germans as well; so can not just be a case of Johhny Foreigner stirring up trouble.

For me the crux of the debate is intention and there after it is curtsey!! If the intention is not malign and there are cultural reasons I'm okay but I'm also British enough to afford the right to refer to peoples by their choosen names/tag...!!!

So I don't refer to all Asians as Pakis

But I don refer to Turkish Germans as Germans!!!
And defo refer to Italians Germans as Germans!!! As I like to see the look on their faces!!!

I'm off...time to fly back to the land of Negerproducts...

that is something different. The word "Negger" WAS offensive and derogatory when it was first used, ie by white slave masters to their black slaves. In this case it seems people have simply forgotten the meaning behind the word and the original intended derision to those it was used against.

I'm absolutely willing to stand corrected here as I don't have the background knowledge, but wasn't it "nigger" not "neggar" (though translated, I'm sure it's just about the same) and when did the Germans own African slaves? I didn't think Germany was really involved in the slave trade...

read the German wiki entry on the word "Neggar".

Germany may have been a bit late on the uptake when it came to colony building but they still had them. And just cos they didn't take a big part in the slave trade doesn't mean the word didn't come from the same beginnings.