Pressure to quit a job due to poor German skills

I have been working now in Germany since March 2006. I admit that the speaking German everyday is not the easiest especially when I work in small rural villages. The Bavarian dialect can be challenging to say the least !!! The never seem to teach you Bavarian in the German Language Classes

I had a meeting with my boss at the beginning of September just after the probation period in my job was finished. She was the usual german stereotype i.e. direct and straight to the point. At least I know where I stand no having to read between the lines.

Basically my German needed to improve so that I can speak better and advise our customers. Fair enough !! So off I go and find a evening german class. Not the easiest task when you work until 6.30pm somewhere behind Peterhausen !! However I manage to find a suitable class two nights a week at the Tandem Language School.

I energize myself and try to speak as much german as possible and talk more with the customers.

So my problem is last week I had a couple of days holiday and go back to Sunny Scotland (yes it was sunny - i was also surprised ) to visit the folks and friends. I come back on Thursday and go back to work on Friday. On Friday my boss calls me in for a talk and tells me that I have no future with the company and she feels that I would be better looking for a new job where I can use my English more. She even has taken the time to look out some adverts that I perhalps may be interested in reply too.

So if it was you what would you do? Would you go back to work? Look for a new job asap? Go off sick? Hand in your notice?

I know that outside the probationary period it is very difficult for the employer to dismiss you unless you have do some really bad things - steal money - tell the customers to f off etc.

I get the feeling that she wants me to leave and just wants to make my life hell so that I do not want to stay with the company. It will certainly make for a very interesting working atmosphere!

I don't know what you do for work, but if you are not happy there and they are not happy, then why not look around for something else? I wouldn't quit, I would probably go back to work and enjoy the bits I liked and ignored the bits I didn't like in the meantime. I am not a fan of calling in sick, though they may expect it, you also want a glowing review letter from them, not just an acceptable one.
And, depending on the size of the company, it is not as hard to dismiss people as you might think. Maybe you can come to an arrangement whereby you leave early in exchange for a month's pay or something?

I don't really think it's that hard for them to dismiss you.. there are just strict Kündigungsfristen. I would stick it out until they officially fire you, cause then you can negotiate an Abfindung (work compensation).. in the meantime maybe look around to see if there's something more suitable for you in Germany.

Think of it as a challenge and prove to them and to yourself that your German is improving and therefore you can do your job better. If they really don't want you, they'll find a way to get rid of you, and that's where compensation arrangements come in.

Look for another job. Say that you will fulfil your contract in the meantime and mean it. See if their contacts can help you.
They will probably not make you stick to the statutory notice period and may even pay you out earlier with an Aufhebungsvertrag.
They might also offer help by letting you write applications while at work or by giving you time to go to interviews. Ask what help is available, that they have found some suitable adverts is a sign that they don't find you completely bad, just not right for them.
Don't jump ship until you have somewhere to land and stay professional in the meantime. DDBug is quite correct, you want a good reference, not just a legal one. And avoiding getting the sack is a good idea, your reference saying you chose to go says something more positive than you were fired.
You were given the opportunity to reach a certain standard and it didn't work out, getting a job that suits you and your skills better and thus living well is the best revenge.

No boss who is trying to screw you over would bother to look up job adverts for you. She's probably just being realistic, I'd take her advice into consideration.

Get Rechtsschutzversichung now if you don't have it, in case it all goes wrong. I agree that your boss sounds nice in the fact that she's looked for job alternatives; it shows that she feels bad about the situation. BUT - they hired you knowing your language competence level, I presume? Why is it suddenly a problem? Is this the real reason? I'd try to find out more; maybe you or she can improve the situation.

I'm sorry about your job situation, and I guess I have nothing of value to offer except to others.

Moral of the story for future seekers of jobs, and employers in Germany: German is not an easy language to learn! It irritates me that Germans who have gone to Gymnasium and have had several years of English training often expect people to pop off and learn their, more difficult, language in just a couple of months. Never mind that nobody actually seems to speak Hochdeutsch unless they have to, because of the various dialects almost everyone speaks.

Some people are unusually adept at learning new languages, but for most people, learning German is a long process, especially if you have to combine it with full-time work. Andy, I think you are not the only one who has expected, or been expected, to "pick up" the language after a short time of exposure, only to be disappointed when it doesn't work out as quickly as you hoped.

I'm in a bit of a rush this morning so I apologise if I get my facts wrong, but I just wanted to ask: they hired you knowing you weren't fluent in german and they haven't offered you any intensive lessons?

Hey Thanks for the many quick replies. In answer to some of the questions posted. I am a Pharmacist and work for a small group of 4 pharmacies. I am currently the locum moving from shop to shop covering the managers days off.

My boss told me when I started working for the company that they hoped to open a new Pharmacy towards the end of this year. The so far has not materialised. It now looks like the new Pharmacy will open towards the middle of next year.

The plan was that I would work anound the pharmacies that she currently has and improve my german skills and my knoweldge of the german healthcare system and medicines. (I have for 8 years worked in the UK as a Pharmacist for a small company). When the new Pharmacy opened I would then move to work in that full time.

Over the last couple of months she has recently also employed two more Pharmacists to cover the shops as well.

When she offered me the job she knew the level of my German. She even said that the moving from shop to shop would be the ideal opportunity to improve my confidence and language.

Pharmacy in German is similar in many ways to the UK but also very different in many respects.

Herbal, Homeopathy and Alternative medicines are big business here in the Pharmacy. It is certainly a steep learning curve!

Given the current Healthcare Reforms in Germany I wonder ifn that has something to do with the situation as well.

No they did not offer me any Intensive lessons. I have had to pay for the new lessons myself. They said that the best place to learn German was on the job.

That may be the case if you have a brain that like languages - however my brain is wired to the science section. French at school was not easy and learning German at 33 is even less easy !!

Don't sign an Aufhebungsvertrag unless you don't mind having to wait 3 months for your unemployment benefits.

I don't see how they can legally fire you when they knew the level of your language upon hiring you. I repeat: get Rechtschutzversicherung.

theres surley a good niche for an english speaking pharmacist. maybe not so in the north of munich but maybe in the center or the south and starnberg which has a fair few expat mothers who dont speak german. this could be your competative advantage.

not much you can do about your language apart from try and try and learn, sadly your working in an enviroment which is pretty language sensitive especialy considering the german health sensibilities (what is the medicine for föhn and kreislaufstörung anyway? - sorry my sad attempt at humour).

but your boss is being fair, accept that and work with her to get he best solution to the problem, in such a closed shop industry you dont want to be having a dicky fit and giving yourself a bad name.

I don't think you could really be expected to reach any decent level of German on the job in such a short time, that's just wishful thinking!

Friends I know with no German need 1 year of intensive (i.e. 4 evenings a week, 3 hours each) before they can understand conversations, let alone make a coherent and approximately correct sentence. That's for an intelligent professional working in a German environment during the day.

German is tough and takes time and patience - whatever you decide, good luck!

doesnt kick in for six or three months if i remember correctly. this problem needs to be approached now.

I for one don't think the employer is being fair. If there was an issue with the language it should have been picked up during the probezeit. That's what it's for. Now that time is up it will be very difficult for them to fire you, so they are pressuring you to resign. Stick it out and look for another job.

It does seem a bit harsh but it looks like both you and your employer underestimated the size of the task before you to learn German quickly. She may well have a point though in seeking alternative English speaking employment.

The rights or the wrongs are not the issue, you are in a shit situation and you need to improve your lot, it must be quite stressful being in the pickle you find yourself in.

Life is hard !! Nothing in life comes easy !! No matter what I decide to do it will be a difficult choice. It was clear that moving to Germany would not be easy. I am fortunate that my wife is German. At least if I quit I will still have somewhere to stay.

I also agree that the employer is being realistic from her point of view, however I also feel that it should have been picked up and dealt with within the Probezeit. That is the whole point of the 6 months is it not. Before September when ever I have talked to my boss about how the job was going she had always given the impression that "Alles war Okay !"

Then suddenly in September "Alles war nicht Okay"

When German is such a difficult language to learn it begs the question should I chuck it all in and go off and take an Intensive Course before looking for a new job ? I have the thick end of the stick because I have also technical/medical german to learn.

Questions Questions Questions - God I wish I had the answers.

I suppose that I had better start updating the CV and see waht other opportunities are out there.

My boss also said that I would possibily feel happier in a job where I can use my English more regularly. That I find a bit weird. Because if that was the case I would have never looked for a job where I knew that I would have to speak German the whole day.

i can't believe they hired you in the first place knowing you couldn't speak german. it's her shit mistake, let her lounge around in it. it's not your problem she hired you.

what are her hidden motives for wanting to get rid of you now?

how have you responded to this? what did you tell her? what do those job offers look like?

Do you speak German at home? That way you'd learn the language much faster than going to intensive courses and whatnot. Granted, it would feel strange at first if you and your wife currently speak English with each other but you would get used to it pretty soon and make a lot of progress in very little time. It would give you confidence and improve your conversational skills - and that will always come in useful, whether or not you continue in your present job.

Am also a bit mystified as to why this woman hired you knowing full well that your German wasn't up to the task and then waited until after the Probezeit was over to inform you that you need to look elsewhere for a job.

When I started the job I had a basic level of German having completed two 16 week course in Scotland (1 Night a week) and having been on an Intensive course in Regensburg in May 2004 before moving to Germany in January 2005. I worked for a year in Germany with the British Army where I spoke English the whole day but made the move to Munich at the beginning of 2006. I suppose my current German level is mittelstufe.

My speaking is better than my writing. Spelling was never my strong point. I also understand a reasonable amount as well. Well I have to when people come and ask for a cream for their piles

My Wife and I speak a mixture of German and English at home. It is always moving more towards the German. The stumbling point comes when it is a topic that I am not sure of how to cover in German. Then we tend to mix and match.

I speak German also with my wife's family and our neighbours.

Everyone tells me that my German has greatly improved over the last 8 months. Which I am sure that it has however there is still room for a lot of improvement.

There's always room for improvement but your German is obviously much better now than during your Probezeit, which is when your boss should have been making her assessment. Frankly, to me at least the argument about your "poor German skills" is starting to sound a bit lame...

hi,

i think this is a really tough situation. just from a general point of view without knowing anything specific, my gut instinct tells me that the average german would fight to keep their jobs, i don't think they would normaly rather get unemployment benefits. i think many people are afraid of unemployment and work very hard to prove they are the right person for the job, even after the trial period is over. i think fighting to keep the job and showing that you can improve your language skills is the best course. on the other hand if there is quite a demand for people in the pharmacy trade, maybe its not so bad to leave and find something better. i hope everything turns out well.

Badly would be a fair description of how I have responsed to this. Lets just say that I was not a fun person to be around at the weekend - I think I am going into a rather blue period.

I told her that I can only give my best i.e. 100% (normally I do not give anything less) I also said that there is also a limit to how quickly I can improve my language skills when I am working full time.

To give you an example. I start work on a Monday at 8am. I therefore get out of bed at 6.15am and leave the house at 7am to get to work for 8am. I then work until 6.30pm. I then leave work and drive direct to Munich because my german class starts at 8pm. I park my car at Alte Heide and take the U-Bahn into town and then walk the 15 minutes to class. Picking up a Bratwurst/Currywurst along the way.

The class finished at 9.30pm. Then head back to Münchner Freiheit and take the U-Bahn back to collet my car. I am then usually home in Hallbergmoos about 10.30pm.

Naturally I have homework to do for the next class which is on Wednesday. I also work on Tuesday from 8am until 6.30pm. Wednesday I have free. Spend doing homework from Monday (Tuesday night I would like to relax because I am knackered from Monday being such a long day) Wednesday also spend doing other tasks - cleaning, shopping, etc I work Thursday and Friday as well 8am until 6.30pm.

So very quickly the week in gone and the weekend is there again.

Not wanting to be a complete nose to book type person I would laso like to have some down time and relax with my wife and friends.

I am also the type of person when someone tells me that I must do better or need to change the way that I do something I will. I am not a complete beginner in the world of Pharmacy. I have worked for several years . If no one tells me I am doing a poor job, I do not see what I can do to improve it. My crystal ball got broken many years ago.

I am not sure what more I should be doing. 24 hours in the day seems not to be enough.

As for the other job offers I have had a look on the Bayerische Landesapotheke Kammer website and will have to see how it goes from there. There is also a job available in January at the Munich Airport Pharmacy.

As others already mentioned, legally it's difficult to fire someone after the Probezeit. So take your time, maybe consider other jobs, expect a good compensation if you decide to leave. Also find out about your colleagues how old they are and whether they have kids. If your company should run out of money and they have more than 10 employees, then they need to do so-called Sozialauswahl (Read the details there) when deciding who should leave the company.

That sounds a place where your English language would be advantageous over German. To have both (to some extend) is a plus.

I get the impression that he wants to wait for a while and look at jobs at his own leisure, rather than leave the company right now. As he hasn't been fired [yet?] it would be best to prepare for such a scenario and just hope he's covered by that time. IIRC it's 3 mths, not 6, but I could be mistaken.

wow, there's something missing from this story OR your current boss simply has no business sense whatsoever.

If I were you, stay where you are until you can find another job. Keep your head down, be nice etc. If you've managed for 6 months so far, you can cope with the job for another 3 (perhaps for that airport job?).

As for your boss... well, somethings up. Either she's just daft - or perhaps she has another person she'd like to give your job to? As a German, she should know the 6 month probation rules - and also be realistic as to how long it takes to learn German. Muppet.

sounds like you are struggling as it is. to bide your time with the company while waiting for them to either accept your german language proficiency or fire you can only add to your stress. is it worth it ?
the airport pharmacy seems like a fantastic opportunity !!

not if he changes his state of mind. He should accept the fact that the job is 'over'... but not put himself in a worse situation.

For heaven's sake, of course there is more to this than what you are being told. The BS detector is clanging.

Don't let your employer get you down. Stick with it as long as it's to your advantage to do so, and don't do anybody any favours by quitting prematurely. Make sure you stay in charge of the situation and make the best possible decisions for yourself. And if your boss gives you that same crap again, tell her to either invest in your eduction or quit whining. But do not, please do not, quit until you've found another job that suits you perfectly.

With the fact that she has recently employed two other Pharmacist I get the feeling that one of them is earmarked for the job that I am currently doing.

I get the impression that it is difficult to get Pharmacists to work north of munich. Many would seem to prefer to work in the city. Perhalps she was only bidding her time until she found someone that wants to work outside the city who has better german language skills i.e. a german

Keeping the head down and working until I find a job is certainly one of the options however give that when I now wake up in the morning and think Oh God I have to drive 1 hour to a job that I know does not want me it is not a very motiving thought to wake up to.

I get the feeling that even if my german were to dramatically improve over the next month that she would still not want me to stay.

It is also an interesting works climate in that I am the single token male. The other staff are either younger than me (considerable i.e 16-20) or older than me (40-55).

What is it my wife said to me when trying to make converstation with the younger staff - "it's like your are there dad when you chat to them" it can be difficult for them to relate to you being a male, 10 years older and coming from outside Germany

well, only you can balance that decision. If you NEED the money/job, then you will do it.

If you don't need the money and/or think you can get another job soon-ish, then you have more choice. Me, I'd be afraid of being without a job for 6 months + You don't have any firm offers at present do you?

If you follow the 'stay with it' option (and you could set a deadline) you can just be honest with her. 'i'm here for 6 more months - live with it!'

Andy, is your mother tongue english?
jobs4medical.com often offer jobs in Germany for pharmacists, especially within the pharmaceutical companies. English, German and any other language skills you may have can only work in your favour. Good luck finding a new job as the job you are in will only get you down if you stay.

I suppose you could say that English is my mother tongue. However coming from Glasgow some people might disagree with that I will give the website a look and she what I can find. Thanks for the info

Lloyds pharmacy are looking for pharmacists in Lanarkshire, they are also a German company, try looking on their website.

I haven't been on here for ages, but it reminds me of the situation I was in a year or so ago, being in a job I hated because they said I wasn't up to the job (not true). If you need the money, don't quit, as you wont be entitled to any unemployment benefits. I was effectively fired in the end, but because I had worked in Germany, and also worked in the UK without a break for 7 years before that, I was entitled to full Arbeitslosengeld (60% of last take home pay), for one year. You have to fill in forms and get copies of P60s and last pay statements from each job you did. I immediately signed up for intensive German classes which improved my German loads (I found it too much to learn much German while I was working full time and travelling 3 hours a day). I did find a new job, but couldn't accept it in the end as I found out I would move to Hamburg. So now I'm job hunting in Hamburg. Good luck in finding a new job, I can sympathise with that dread of going to work every day.

Poor Andy...surely the Germans treasure their own language much. And fortunately you're in an area, where the folks have a special taste in their strong dialect, smelling of potatos. If I were you, I would opt for leaving for another chance. It's no good to stay in a company without a good perspective and due respect to their employees.

On last Friday one of my colleagues was fired. He's a Bavarian, over 50s, has a family to raise and has been working here for two years. It was his fault. But if he could have found a most suitable position, his situation would be better than now.

I used to work for LLoydspharmacy in Lanarkshire. That was before I moved to germany. Unfortunately moving back to the UK is not an option. My wife has a good job here and we are here for the long run.

An interesting point is that they are owned by a German Company Celesio - one of the big wholesalers in the UK and Germany. However they are not allowed to own pharmacies in Germany. It's the same story as with DocMorris.

Lloyds and AllianceBoots seem to be buying up Pharmacies in the UK as a staggering rate. Bellshill which is 5 minutes from where parents live in Lanarkshire has 5 Pharmacies - 4 are Lloyds and the other is AllianceBoots.

First application for a new job has been sent. Time now to wait and see if I get a reply. If it is anything like the last time it may be a long wait but I will cross my fingers, touch wood etc and anything else that is suppose to bring luck.

Andy, I think we may have crossed paths. I am from Mossend.

Okay cool. I am from Uddingston originally, lived in Carfin before moving to Munich and used to work in Coatbridge.

Don't put too much faith in the posts that you are after your probezeit so your job is safe. From the contracts that I have seen, it just changes the notice period from immediate or two weeks to three months. If they don't want you there, look for another job. Don't quit until you find another job. Tell your employer you will sign nothing and you will not quit until you have a new job offer firmly in hand. If she were to write a glowing recommendation then you will have an easier time. But let her know you have a wife and have no intention of leaving slowly as you need the job until you have another one.

Hi there!

You have had seven months to pick up one of the arguably easiest languages to learn (due to its adament following of rules and mathematical logic).

I think your boss wants you out, but if you have a never say die attitude, I don't think intensive language classes alone will cut it, rather, you also need to get your ass out of contact with English speakers, you need to watch loads of German television (especially with obvious plots and dialog - soaps), you need to watch DVDs with the sound in German and the subtitles in German, and you need to force yourself to read the German newspaper for at least a half hour each day.

Also, read and re-read a textbook and all of the rules, and buy a training tape you can play on your walkman or in the car.

Total immersion! No more sitting on your hands!

Sorry, but it certainly is not one of the easiest languages to learn at all. Sure you can pick up the basics pretty quickly but then it is a hard slog to get to a level of proficiency. Took me a couple of years to get really good and now I am totally fluent...

6 months is a little short to be proficient enough to handle customer relationships, which is obviously what this job entails. I would say it was a mistake from the employer in the first place.

Go and die somewhere. Easy to learn!?!? Its bloody not. Why? Because the desire to learn is almost zero. It sounds shit, is ugly, and is quite easy to avoid. Want easy, learn something thats actually a pleasure to speak, like French, or French. Arguably easy my arse. How many fucking words does a country need for "the"? I'll tell ya, ONE. Nobody can produce any evidence atall to suggest that having genders for shit like tables can possibly enrich a lingo. Its rubbish. F A C and T.

I understand the immersion theory. I would like to be fluent. But then I would also like to be 10 kilos slimmer. I am working on both!

I am personally wary about making myself miserable with being under too much pressure to learn the language. Life generally has many stresses, and we all have things we should do better.

I have been here 3 years. I get around with my German but it's not great (but also not the worst ever after 3 years). But then I don't need too much for work.

Just saying to others not to beat yourself up too much if you ain't fluent after 6 months. Just depends on your natural skills, your needs, your previous language learning, your age, your desire and your need for German either for work or socially.

good advice on immersion, but i disagree, German is NOT an easy language to learn. and language classes & a walkman only help so much when your speaking to country folk in strange bavarian accents. learning a language takes time ...

Easy language? I don't think so.
Scots have one advantage...we can pronounce "ch" successfully. Unfortunately, the rest is seriously hard work and practice - and it's easy to be lazy, I know I am.
I'm guessing that the problem is the technical lingo associated with being a pharmacist, and for that there's no quick fix. I know this as I'm a business coach and I reckon I'm 4 years away from being able to do this in German. Luckily there's a market for English language coaching so I have some time to get sorted.
Anyway, I'm short on helpful advice, but as someone in a similar situation I wish you the very best of luck!