Neo-Nazi attack on Ethiopian in Munich U-Bahn

Surprised that nobody has posted on this news article this week.

Drunken Neo-Nazi on the train singing radical songs. A black man walks on to the train and is attacked and badly beaten by the Neo-Nazi.

Why do Germans not get involved? Why do they always look away and wait until its all over before they do something?

'cos they're soft?

What article?

Regards people looking the other way, I don't think you can place that upon German shoulders. Most people in any society nowadays would probably do the same.

You mean the incident when passengers of the U-Bahn informed the driver immediately when the Nazi attacked the Ethiopian? The driver then stopped the train until the police arrived at the scene. Lots of not getting involved going on there.


Source: Süddeutsche Zeitung
Nr. 257, Wednesday 8.Nov.2006, page 41

Bollocks. Other passengers alerted the driver who called the police in the time that the train was still in Kolumbusplatz station.

Oh Sarabyrd is quicker innit. I read it in the Süddeutsche too. Their Munich section is top banana for local news.

the train was full and if at least five had got together the neo-nazi would more than likely have stopped. Not waiting until he has finished beating the poor guy for having a different skin colour. as for calling it an incident, i think not. it was blatant assualt. i totally agree with bludga.

Mik, tell us about the incident in Lörrach where 16 yr old hoodlums were encouraging a woman to jump off the roof of the City Hall and a group of homeless told them to shut up. The topics are related - it's all about getting involved.

IIRC this incident happenend fairly late at night and both men were travelling West.
The number of passengers westbound via Kolumbusplatz laste at night is SMALL.

The whole compartment might have only been a total of 5 passengers.
You don't know how old, scared, not physically strong they were.

They did the quickest and easiest thing to get help.
You tried to slag em for doing nowt and got caught bulsshitting.
Now you're trying to wriggle.

Read the Munich section of the SZ more closely hey.

Probably the same reasons the no-one posted the story about the 15 year old white boy being taken off the street because he was white, beaten, stabbed and burnt to death, and no-one doing anything to help. The same reason that some eye witnesses refused to testify because they thought they would be in danger themselves.

The difference? Well the difference was the aforementioned case happened in Scotland and it was asians committing the crime.

I stated at the time that if it had been reversed then someone would post up and start on about "Nazis".

Was I wrong?...you tell me.

In an earlier topic I told of an incident I witnessed on the U-Bahn at Lunchtime where a guy beat the crap out of his girlfriend then turned his attention to us as we had tried to intervene (from a distance !). I spoke to the red-berets about it and they said on no account should you personally get involved or put yourself at risk as anyone on drugs (or alcohol) has little regard for their own safety and can do you serious damage. So your well-minded bravado could go seriously wrong.

Very few if any TT'ers know me but I can confirm I'm not soft and would still be slow to intervene if I thought their was a risk to me. If it was someone near and dear to me then I'd be right in there, believe me.

Umm hard one to call really, as you can only say what you would do after the event!

I have worked in the security industry, and around the industry for many years (started at 5 working for my mothers company as the tea boy <still bad at making it>), and with all the experience and training I have learnt that some times it is easier to take a step back and make better use on my training and give first aid to the victims.

I have also learnt that no matter how big and hard you are someone on drugs is likely to kick your arse, as they cant feel the pain in the same way thus every blow you inflict is useless and only puts you closer for them to inflict one back, the only way to control such a person it to use many trained people, hence the reason you tend to get more than one doorperson in any venue.

You have to be able to read body language and make quick decisions as to the person’s intent, any good doorperson knows shortly before that a person is going to start trouble. You have to weigh up if they are all mouth, (the push each other style fight), or if they are a street fighter, (they tend to punch or head butt as the 1st ‘warning shot’ rather than do the push crap) if so your in for trouble.

I would say never get involved unless you are 100% sure that you can knock the person out with one punch (which is extremely hard to do even if you have practiced <if not every boxing match would end with a KO>), not forgetting that you don’t know if the nutter is armed. The reason I say you need to knock them out in one is as you can restrain the person using many methods, however they only have to pull out a weapon and the best marshal arts aint going to stop you getting a little cosmetic surgery cheap style. <Whilst working on the doors in the magistrates courts I had a fella pull out a syringe and a Stanley knife>

Even if you think you have the physical advantage I would say think twice, as you don’t know if the person is alone or if they have a gang waiting or even videoing it! And as soon as you involve your self you have to be prepared to defend yourself from all the unknown!

There is the other argument though that if there are lots of people that they could have joined together and helped in force, however all the above still counts as there were 3 other highly trained people in the courts with me however there was little they could do to help other than call the cops!

I too would discard all the above if the victim was someone I loved/knew etc.
And when out with mates generally go to the ‘jump in to half the beating’ rule<works on the provision that you don’t go out stating trouble however if it dose kick off and there is no escape route then you all help each other>, however given the chance I would still run by fat ass the hell out of there, rather than spoil my good looks!

As I say depends on the situation, I have also been involved in other incidents where the people have been removed without too much trouble.

Oh and if you are not scared and pumped up through the whole event you are most likely dead.

Wow my longest post!!! just my 2 pence<yes i am still in the UK and use £&p!>

If you are able to read German than read these:

• Wer den Mund aufmacht, riskiert sein Leben
• Provozieren, pöbeln, prügeln

If this happened happened in Amsterdam, London or Dublin... most people wouldn't have done anything. Why do you say that Germans always look away?

I know this is a a community for English-speaking expats... but why always complain about the Germans?

Because by chosing to live here we have made ourselves part of the German community and want to know how the community functions.

Wanting to know how the community functions and complaining are two different things.

I can very well read German thank you and thank you for your links Bart.As it says pöbeln.Now i have always treated it this way.If anybody pushes me its a Personliche Angriff and i punch to defend myself.No warning nothing.If they are just mouthing off then its JA JA JA.
I have lived in your country for 24 years now and the German mentality is always to look away and have seen nothing.
Typical example is where you live.How many people move in to a neighbourhood,live there for years and never even know their neighbours, do not even say good morning to them?
I mean they had to make it law over here that if someone breaks down on the side of the road that you have to stop to help.
NOTHING TO DO WITH ME is the favourite German saying.
Giveth and you shall receive is written in the bible and if you are all so bloody religous as you make out over here then act on it.Do'nt talk, do it.

to be honest i think all the points you raise, Mik, are more indicative of large city large life rather than Germany specific. Go to any major metropole and you will see the same things. How many peopel "get involved" on the New York Metro or the London Underground? How many residents of those cities really know their neighbours?

So the conclusion is, some people did get involved, did so instantly and in the way recommended by the police. Showing just as much if not more public spirit than you might expect in London.

When are we going to see an end to the current trend of "bash the Hermanns" threads that are based on utter bollocks here on TT?

O.G. no way i am not talking city life here, i am talking life in general in Germany.We live in a village with roughly 4,000 people, and have had the experience that even when you greet the neighbours if you are lucky you may get a nod, no eye contact and its all one sided.We have to make the effort.

So it's only Germans who turn a blind eye ? Get a fucking grip man !

By all means bemoan the fact that society at large has turned into a less caring community but don't place the blame at the foot of Germany, that's just ridiculous and you know it.

Strange place. The German village where I grew up you always greeted everyone whether you knew them by name or not and got a friendly greeting back.

Well its all certainly different where i come from, and no its not a strange village and no one on this forum cannot tell me that hermans are standoffish!!!By the way i am not the kind of person to turn a blind eye when i see anything untoward being done on anybody or anyone.

I was once verbally attacked on a Munich ubahn. Loads of Gerrys intervened and had a go at the bloke.
I was quite gutted really, but thats not the point.

Standoffish?

No way! I live in inner Munich and where I live is like Emmerdale Farm. I can't walk to the shop on the corner without seing a neighbour who I exchange hellos with.

In fact I'm the one who is often thought stand offish.

But its getting it right though. You have to break the ice first.
The mean old granny neighbour isn't going to stand their have a Trisha-style heart to heart with you about her bad leg and the fact that she is having an affair with the local priest until you've done enough formal "Grüß Gotts" innit.

I have to admit, I am accident prone and fall/trip/run into things a terrible amount. Thus said, when I did live in NYC briefly, people would help me if I dropped something when I took a dive...whereas last week when I fell in a puddle and dropped a few grocery bags, everyone around me just stared as they walked by. This is not the first time i've experienced general rudeness here, and I do realize urban life can be sterile...but the way some MUNICH people are at times is weak.

I didn't post any links, Marty posted the links...and Germany is not my country.

I moved into my current apartment 6 months ago and most people greet me in the mornings...the only one not greeting me and being an arrogant shithead is an american or canadian neighbour. (can't tell from his accent)

I believe I've said this before; But I 've lived in 6 countries and every countries and its people have a different mentality...But I can't say that that Germans are egoistic or don't care about others.

I think your're view is a bit ignorant, especially after 24 years in Germany.

Related topic from earlier this year:
Ethopian-born man beaten into a coma

Did you pinch any of your neighbours jobs by any chance ? That might explain why they are a bit standoffish with you.

By the way , if Germany and the German people get so far up your nose why not Bugger off back to where ever you came from . I've lived here for nearly 28 years , I LOVE IT IN MUNICH. In many ways it is like every other big city . But it is by no means as dangerous. Over the years i hear people bitching about the Germans and their mentality ,their lack of humour the crappy food and so on. Nobody asked you to stay, go home if you don't like it . Also a sense of humour doesn't have to be a custard pie in the face or somebody showing their arse in the street .

Dear Mik
Thankyou for your PM . your threats were most amusing, and go to show what type of a person you are. I suggest you try a bit of anger management. Duffing the entire world up is not a solution to your obvious problems.

Threat??? no threats on my side.just promises.Send me your address so i can send you a white feather.End of ,bye bye have fun, i have another life.Painting

Shouldn't that be

Actually i am just trying to work out if he paints the feathers himself, or does he rip up feather pillows in fits of rage and then needs to get rid of them somehow ?

I myself was thinking more along the lines of pissing off the RSPB through actions resulting from a derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.

i must say i agree entirely

last week a fellow tt got some money out the cash point schwabing and i distracted him by talking... so we left the cash point and suddenly this young man approached to us asking whether we just took cash out. my friend said yes. the guy: "well you forgot your money, must he yours" and handed over the money (which was more than 100 EUR). i think that was a very nice munich moment :-)

Watch it hams you might get a feather as well .

Planetmoni - I was told that story in person by the TTer in question, amazing isn't it!

Dr. Yes - You may very well be right, I must quell my urge to live dangerously.

hope he doesn't mind that i am spreading his story but i was there

Well you haven't named him so I guess he won't mind in the slightest.