No lengthening of shop opening hours in Bavaria

OK - here is a valid comparison:

Fast food outlets do not have much restriction on their opening hours. McDonalds and Burger King being open until 5am in certain parts and all of them open on Sundays. There are a lot of them around too.

Now tell me how many small, family owned döner shops there are around the place? Are they all suffering and closing down?

No.

But I don't.

And you can chill out whether the shops are open or not. So why force your philosophy on the rest of the population? That's just selfish

Off the top of my head, places like McDonalds and Starbucks tend to strangle busineses that are in the same sector of the market.

To compete with a neighbouring McDonalds for the same busiess, the owner of "Freds Chip Shop" would have to work himself into the ground innit.


I'm stirring a bit but why should the pro more reformers force their opinion on the rest of the population?

I can tell you now, in time Germany will allow shops to open. One of the states will break ranks and all the people from far and wide will travel to shop. As Germany is so far behind it may take years but it will happen.

The trading laws in D are out dated and restrictive and people should have the freedom to open when they please, and the so called 60% that donr want the shops to oipen will be first in the Q.

don't think he's forcing his philosophy on others, just presenting his opinion which is normal on a forum. just like you are presenting yours, it's fair mate!

Not necessarily, MonksTown. If Fred's Chip Shop has better chips and is open when people are hungry instead of straight through the day and into the wee hours, he could probably compete.

The point is that Fred can decide for himself when it's profitable for him to work. Maybe that's just 11:00-13:00 (after school and lunch crowd), 17:00-20:00, and 2:00-3:00 after the nearby club lets out. Who knows?

The decision of the CSU was taken in the full knowledge that the laws regarding shopping are already more liberal in Baden-Würtemburg, Hessen, Austria and the Czech Republic an there is the potentials to lose (more) trade to these places,

are others forced to compy with my free time schedule? i think not. many sunday workers e.g. students are only too happy to work weekends cause they dont have the time during the week. even more people will be "forced" to work sundays with sunday opening, and many of them won't be students!
as for my schedule, i know few people who work sundays. for me, sunday really is the only day where people can get together & socialise and not worry about schedules. and i would like it to remain that way as much as possible.

Ah - but there you have the idea of making yourself competitive in the market. Sorry, but if you can't compete, then you shouldn't be in the business. Simple as that.

In Canberra, Australia, after a lot of small businesses went out of business, they decided to limit the opening hours of the large supermarkets (over a certain size) to open only between 9am and 12pm on Saturdays and Sundays. THe small shops could open longer than that.

Guess what happened? The large supermarkets were absolutely rammed full on Saturday and Sunday mornings, making it hellish to try to buy anything there and there was no marked increase in anyone going to small, overpriced shops.

That experiment lasted for about 2 months before they relaxed the laws again.

If you cannot compete in the marketplace, then you need to adapt and change the way you do your business. The government should not inconvenience everyone, because people cannot run their businesses properly and attract customers on their own.

Top post Hazza.

I get pissed off reading all this bullshit about supermarkets killling small business. Business is a constant changing game, you can't stick your head in the sand and defend crap businesses like UK coal mining, or car factories that are too expensive etc for ever.

Yes, but my philosophy doesn't infringe on anyone's right NOT to shop on a Sunday.

It's not like I'm saying that shops should ONLY be open on a Sunday and give those people who don't want to shop no option but to go then.

So all your mates are in the retail sector then? Because that is the only section of the workforce that is prevented from working on Sundays...

Well, having taken a guess at what "ricockulus" means, I would like to point out that most people here see it as a little more, er, well, "deep" than just choice.

Anyway the 60% have got their way and have "chosen" not to have the "choice". Live with it, everyone else has to. (It is called "democracy")

What's all this about "Germany"? Britain and Ireland are about the only countries in western Europe to have Sunday opening.

you can shop in other countries on a Sunday. this is the way it is here, it's unlikely to change for a long time.
most people are content with the way it is here if the stats are to be believed.
a ranting minority is not going to make any difference for the moment at least anyway.

What, the Bavarian politicians have had a vote recently over the shopping hours?? When??

So then that 60% don't have to shop on Sundays.

It's like saying we should ban rugby in Germany. Only 5% of people who live here like the sport and 95% don't. So we should ban everyone from playing it - it's the majority, after all.

Sunday trading is also allowed in the Netherlands. My girlfriend grew up near the Dutch border and they would sometimes go across to go shopping. She said that the stores were always full of Germans. I wonder how much money leaks out of the country that way. It is trade that is lost completely to German businesses.

There we see what kind of numbnuts are running Bavaria. Deliberately endorsing laws that hurt the Bavarian economy...

But perhaps the people who made this decision think on balance it is better to lose some trade around the borders of the state to maintain the structure of the retail market as it is and the social aspect?

Not everything is measuured in LSD innit.

that maybe so ... but it infringes on my right to enjoy a nice quiet sunday, without the noise from the stores below my apartmet being open, noise from additional traffic in the area.
this is germany ... forget you rights to do everything you damm well please. germany is a social democracy, not a free for all 24/7 capitalist emperium.

Small Town Boy by name and attitude

Why should someone tell you when you can open your shop. If there are customers it should open. If there is no demand for it, it would close.

Germany should completly de regulate the shopping hours, it would be the best thing to get the domestic economy going again.

Well on the one hand you're arguing this point on an economic level - with small businesses forcing to shut, etc. and on the other hand, economic loss doesn't matter.

So what is it then?

And sorry, but if you're going to be enacting/endorsing laws on trading and business, then economic gain/loss should be on top of the list of what gets looked at as far as I'm concerned.

Well, isn't that grand.


Probably something like 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of Germany's annual GDP. Or to put it another way, about as much as it gains from the Danish buying their alcohol in Germany.

No one is forced to work, we're not discussing slavery. But I'm not sure what you're getting at, yes students are happy to work weekends... so you agree they should be allowed to if they so wish now?
How are other people wishing to sell their retail goods on a Sunday possibly going to get in the way of your socialising? Does it upset you when you are getting together with friends and someone is selling you food or beverages? Do you want to impose laws on them?

For me, I work a lot of Sundays and late nights, it's how I survive. Thankfully I don't get told I'm not allowed just because 60% of other people are having time off.


Actually, in this case, it's called religion. And bending over and taking it quietly is nothing to be proud of.


It's just a conversation shiney. Personally I don't believe it's going to change here for a long time, but it's still good to think or talk about things so you can see what a rotten deal some people are getting right under your nose.

60% were in agreement, why should the 40% (minority) force their way philosophy on the rest of the population?

To quote the one and only Ulysses "dea with it and move on"

Lose the insults hey.

The best ting to stimulate the domestic economy would be to reverse falling real incomes and increase consumer confidence.


It's not all black and white innit.

There are economic negatives associated with keeping the law as it is as people WHO LIVE NEAR THE BORDER ie NOT most of the state might shop elewhere. But there are economic positives in that it might protect the structure of the retail industry to stay how it is and not go like in the UK.

For better or for worse (and I ain't no fan of them), the CSU has weighed it up and made a decision.

I don't think many people need to do shopping on a Sunday to fulfill an addiction or something similar. I know that I need to do shopping on a Sunday because I have forgotten something and I need it now, not in a weeks time.

We just go grocery shopping at the airport, Sunday's are boring enough as it is.

It's not free for all capitalist emperium - just check your tax bill. But neither is a supply based communist society. If you want to live in a quiet place, then frankly, you should not be living in the middle of the 3rd largest German city. Munich is already very quiet, compared to other large cities on any day of the week - there's no need to overdo it.

Link to back that up please

the whole point is (60% of) the people here don't want what some may think is better for them.
it's not a 'rotten deal' for them, it's what they want.
I guess the reason why some feel it's a rotten deal is they've grown up where it's different and (they feel) better.

Congratulations, you're the 1 millionth person to have thought of that one!

Although if you look closely at my profile, you'll see that I was in fact born and bred in a small village just south of Watford.

if people want to work on sundays, thats fine by me. their choice to work or not. i prefer not to.
i just hope that retail stores stay closed. i prefer to have one day of the week with less hussle & bussle on the streets. just one day at a slower pace, that's all.

Bushey?

I'm sure all the shops just on the German side of the border see it that way too.

You're all talking about the small individual traders. So what about those small individuals then?

Yeah, cos a minority has never made a good point in the face of mass ignorance. Good argument.

Right.. so would I.. but you can agree that that's not good reason enough to enforce it by law..?

That is funny! As if Munich is a huge metropolis in the like of London, Tokyo or New York. There are hardly any people on the streets after 8pm as it is, any slower and it would be comatose.

Well there was a trader in the SZ article I read from Fürth-im-Wald (last town before the Czech border) who said the shops closed at 6PM, 1PM Saturdays as there was no demand and he didn't see any change in the law nescessary for the local market.

The small shops on the Czech side aren't open on Sundays etc, it's just the big chain supermarkets.


That depends entirely on where you are innit.

To back what up? My opinion?

Now I don't know the actual number of people who like rugby in Germany, I was guessing 5% - but it's way less than 50% anyway.

So we should ban rugby. Hardly anyone in Germany is interested in it. So because most people don't want to play or watch it, it should be banned for everyone.

That would depend upon who you are with and you circle of friends. We are out every Sunday with our friends. Sometimes there is a big crowd of us, sometimes there are just a few but we are out most Sundays unless we are away for some reason or other. None of us has cancelled due to having to go and buy a bag of bolts from a DIY store or that we have forgotten the bag of pre-prepared roast potatoes for dinner.

Coincidentally, one of our friends has just called up and wants to arrange for all of us to meet up for a SUNDAY out together, kids, dogs, grannys etc etc which I thought was quite apt.

I was not meaning to be rude to Small Time Boy but the attitudes expressed by some are so in the past.

I was against Sunday trading in England for all the reasons given on this forun. I was wrong, It has been a great idea freeing up the attitude of Britain to change. It is a Much more pleasant shopping experience.

Just think about, it why should shops be forced to close.

Freedom of choice is what it is all about, All this socialism is a load of rubbish it just controls people.

No wonder Karl Marx was a German but he is buried in England. I wonder why.

So there are small Czech shops still around, despite the fact that large supermarkets are allowed to open on Sundays and the small shops choose to remain closed at that time?

Well that's just fucked your argument, hasn't it?

And as for the trader at Fürth-im-Wald, he would probably not increase his opening hours even if they were allowed. Fine - doesn't mean you have to have a law preventing it.

I do miss Sunday pub lunches with friends back home... I suppose I'm just hams no mates in Deutschland!

Bingo! "I don't know"...well, what we do know is that 60% of those asked wanted to keep it the same and they have their wish.

It is democracy at work, enjoy it. I will.

So do that then and have a good time. Would it stop you doing these things if the shops were open??

I don't think this is true. I think they sometimes have open Sundays, same as they do here and they have different public holidays to here, so you can go shopping on say Good Friday in Holland, but as a general rule shops are closed on Sundays in the Netherlands. They also close much earlier than they do here.

Hello?

. We tend to use a lot of the local restaurants in the area, all are family run and serve different fare at good prices. I do admit to missing the traditional family run pubs in the UK (but not the Beefeater, etc).

I also miss my local takeaway (I used them so much, they actually sent me a christmas card that I still have)