Johnny Norfolk
Nov 8 2006, 7:38 am
German bankruptcy laws drive car mirror firm to UKQUOTE (Daily Telegraph)
Schefenacker AG, the world's biggest maker of car mirrors, has moved its corporate headquarters lock, stock and barrel from a sleepy Schwabian town to Britain to escape German bankruptcy laws.
The move by the family company, to be renamed Schefenacker Plc and based in Brighton, is being watched closely by distressed companies across Europe.
Possible copyright infringement removed by admin. See guidelines.
This is the reality of Germany that so many people on this site will not recognise.
You could argue it the other way around.
In Germany, if a company is dead then let it die quickly and get it over with. Market economics and capitalism at its best.
In the UK, if the company is dead perform some accounting magic and keep it barely alive but alive enough to continue sucking creditors money away while the magicians continue to make a packet from the deal. Tampering with the market and everything you otherwise despise about Germany but which somehow is acceptable when City of London financiers get involved instead of central government. Shining example of how financiers continue to fuck-up is the Chunnel plc (or whatever it is called in this incarnation).
Johnny Norfolk
Nov 8 2006, 9:37 am
Its not tampering with the market its giving the company the freedom to sort its self out.
jellyone
Nov 8 2006, 9:39 am
Have you any concept JN, of the economics involved in this, or are you just talking from a wealth of inexperience?
The company has had a long time to sort itself out. How much time does it need? This was a self-made problem, brought on by an over-ambitious merger (expanding far too quickly) which is a laugh for a company producing 1/3 of all car mirrors. It's the market at work (killing off an unhealthy company) and those financiers are just trying to recover their money from other investors before the bitter end.
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 9:49 am
And now for the facts:
According to Reuters, the company
may move its
headquarters to Britain because that's where 90% of its lenders are based. Its operations will remain in Germany.
QUOTE (Reuters)
German auto parts maker Schefenacker AG may move its headquarters to Britain, home to about 90 percent of the lenders with whom it is now negotiating a plan to stave off bankruptcy, a person familiar with the situation said.
The source added, however, that the company was not considering moving its operations or its management to the UK.
Reuters: Schefenacker may move headquarters to UKNext.
MonksTown
Nov 8 2006, 9:52 am
Why are post boxes in Germany yellow? I think that's rubbish and just proves how crap Germany is.
Exile
Nov 8 2006, 9:57 am
Yes, this could be the start of more Germany firms that make really bad acquisition decisions moving to the UK.
don_riina
Nov 8 2006, 10:02 am
QUOTE (MonksTown @ Nov 8 2006, 9:52 am)

Why are post boxes in Germany yellow?
Good point. Krout Scum. Gas every last one of them I reckon.
Johnny Norfolk
Nov 8 2006, 10:18 am
Its amazing how Germanic you have all become. If it saves the jobs of all those people is it not worth trying to help. All you want to create with France is fortress Europe,
With control of everything, protectionist laws should be at a bare minimum not like Germany.
Can no one see what is wrong with germany.
These same people critisise their home country and will have nothing said about Germany.
These discussins must take place if there is to br forward movement.
You realy need to open your eyes.
This company is fighting to survive.
We should wish them well.
Its people like you that spoilt Britain and now you are in germany doing the same.
jellyone
Nov 8 2006, 10:22 am
you really are lost aren't you
pike
Nov 8 2006, 10:32 am
They must be planning a big street party in Bad Kreuznach for after you leave in April. Maybe you can tell us when the party is so that we can all go along?
Exile
Nov 8 2006, 10:35 am
TT is just a bacchanalian pit of decadence ignoring the soothsayers while Rome burns, gather your belongings and loved ones JN and flee while you still have your sanity. Oh woe, woe and thrice woe!
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 10:42 am
QUOTE (Johnny Norfolk @ Nov 8 2006, 10:18 am)

Its people like you that spoilt Britain
No no, you're getting confused. It's the
chavs that have brought Britain to her knees!
Uncle Jamal
Nov 8 2006, 10:44 am
JN, there are plenty of things that aren't quite as good as they could be here in Germany. Unfortunately in my view, there are more things wrong back in England though. I daresay many who live here may do so having chosen to leave behind all that is wrong back "home" in favour of all that is wrong here. You could hypothosize that those that fall into this category believe that what is wrong here is easier to put up with in comparison to what is wrong there. In such a situation it's only natural that those people will defend life, culture etc etc in the adopted country isn't it?
So Called Arthur King
Nov 8 2006, 10:48 am
@JN I'm pretty new to this forum so please excuse me if this is a stupid question but why the f#%k are you here?
Hutcho
Nov 8 2006, 11:05 am
I'm not new here and that is my question also..
My friend in London was walking home with his shopping on the weekend, and was mugged and beaten by around six 12 and 13 year olds who took his shopping but didn't get any money. I can assure you that I am more concerned about this than whether a company can move to England to avoid creditors.
Eck Spatz
Nov 8 2006, 11:08 am
Ignore Jonnee Norphuqq and he will go away...
MonksTown
Nov 8 2006, 11:23 am
I'm from the UK and I drink Carling Black Label.
Why can't you get beer like that in Germany?
It just shows how crap Germany is.
Eck Spatz
Nov 8 2006, 11:29 am
I fully agree.
I miss quality Harp Lager from Dundalk, Ireland.
Why can't you get beer like that in Germany?
"Harp. Seriously good beer"-
Keydeck
Nov 8 2006, 11:30 am
Ah, Sally O'Brien and the way she might look at you.
Johnny,
You're not engaging with me...
You complain about 'the company needs rescuing' but will criticise the 'fortress Europe' countries for providing support to other companies/industries that were failing. Where is the difference, in your eyes, between governments intervening and investment companies intervening? In the end, it's the public that pays in both cases.
rick_de
Nov 8 2006, 12:01 pm
QUOTE (MonksTown @ Nov 8 2006, 11:23 am)

I'm from the UK and I drink Carling Black Label. Why can't you get beer like that in Germany?
Thank god you can`t get it over here, thats all I can say! Reinheitsgebot, I love you.
rick_de
Nov 8 2006, 12:03 pm
QUOTE (don_riina @ Nov 8 2006, 10:02 am)

Good point. Krout Scum. Gas every last one of them I reckon.
Yeah, when I first came over here I thought they were dustbins.
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 12:04 pm
QUOTE (rick_de @ Nov 8 2006, 12:01 pm)

Reinheitsgebot, I love you.
The German Reinheitsgebot - why it's a load of old bollocks
Allershausen
Nov 8 2006, 12:10 pm
Not forgetting that Reinheitsgebot is no longer a law, merely a marketing exercise. We've discussed this before, but I can't be arsed to look for it!
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 12:17 pm
Yeah, I link to that article at least once a month. It's my most favouritest article in the whole world!
QUOTE (Ron Pattinson)
A crap, money-grubbing commercial brewery will manage to brew bland rubbish either within or without the constraints of the Reinheitsgebot. The problem is, that concentration on this limited list of ingredients as the core of beer quality allows compromise in many other key areas. [...]
Considering the number of breweries it possesses, Germany is home to relatively few beer styles. Bavaria, with its hundreds of breweries only has a handful of different styles. Belgium, on the other hand, with it's open-minded approach to ingredients, has almost as many styles as breweries. Even Austria, with only 90-odd breweries, manages to have at least as many different types of beer as the whole of Germany.
Johnny Norfolk
Nov 8 2006, 12:40 pm
I have to say I think the german pils is second to non and how you can compare it to harp and the like is ridiculous.
it is a pity that thee is not the choice in Germany but you can find some small outlets that do stock a wider range.
Again if you look back at some of the posts all they want to do is hurl insults instead of discussing the points raised.
For a large international German family business to move its HQ to trhe UK is an important milestone in germany. German Business is leading the way in trying to lift the economy. Its a pity about the government that is bogged down in the past and still trying to stya in the bunker of protectionisim.
Before you start hurling insults think about it on how bussiness unfriendly Germabny is.
and disscuss. and yes my english and spelling is crap so you dont need to comment on that either.
And I will be staying another 2 years in germany. the company like what i have to say .
Exile
Nov 8 2006, 1:28 pm
JN why are you working in backward, economically declining Germany when you could be wallowing in the milk and honey of the UK and its continuing economic miracle.
sarabyrd
Nov 8 2006, 1:44 pm
QUOTE (Exile @ Nov 8 2006, 10:35 am)

TT is just a bacchanalian pit of decadence ignoring the soothsayers while Rome burns, gather your belongings and loved ones JN and flee while you still have your sanity. Oh woe, woe and thrice woe!
Aren't you getting this mixed up with
Cassandra, the seeress who was cursed never to be believed?
MonksTown
Nov 8 2006, 1:50 pm
QUOTE (Johnny Norfolk @ Nov 8 2006, 12:40 pm)

German Business is leading the way in trying to lift the economy.
Yeah...right! What utter bollocks.
Why isn't that German woman's head on the coins in Germany like in Britain? That's crap!
mellelisa
Nov 8 2006, 1:53 pm
I don't understand you, JN. You complain a lot about Germany but now you are staying for a two further years? Surely the economy in good old Blighty can provide a job for you, rather than making you suffer any more.
Exile
Nov 8 2006, 1:59 pm
QUOTE (sarabyrd @ Nov 8 2006, 2:44 pm)

Aren't you getting this mixed up with
Cassandra, the seeress who was cursed never to be believed?
My allusion was somewhat less
cultured.
sarabyrd
Nov 8 2006, 2:01 pm
Today's movies are yesterday's mythology.
QUOTE (Johnny Norfolk @ Nov 8 2006, 11:18 am)

Its people like you that spoilt Britain and now you are in germany doing the same.
Britain is indeed trying to become a global economic hub, with easy-going takeover rules, huge inward investment, generous bankruptcy provision, plenty of migration etc.. Britain has become a country so at ease with its nationality, it doesn't even care who owns what. To many, Britain has become a kind of large version of Luxembourg, and has all but lost its sense of nationality (not that this is a bad thing, ofcourse).
As a result, one could perhaps more justifiably argue that it is people like you, who support this vision, who are really spoiling Britain.
Eck Spatz
Nov 8 2006, 2:05 pm
QUOTE (Johnny Norfolk @ Nov 8 2006, 12:40 pm)

I have to say I think the german pils is second to non and how you can compare it to harp and the like is ridiculous.
Maybe I was extracting the Michael.

Jeeze Johnny, tanx for da laugh you provide us with!
BadDoggie
Nov 8 2006, 2:34 pm
QUOTE (Small Town Boy @ Nov 8 2006, 12:04 pm)

That article was half bollocks. I just sent him a response:
QUOTE
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
First of all, you're calling the Biersteuergesetz the RhG. They are not the same thing. Secondly, the RhG cannot be enforced due to the EU.
> 2: It's a bread protection rather than beer protection law.
Nope. The RhG was one of the first-ever food purity laws and targeted basic foods, including bread and beer (unless you wanted cholera you didn't drink plain water). It also served to keep the unwashed masses from drinking the nobility-only Weißbier. In 1603 the Elector of Bavaria /mandated/ that wheat be also used for beer.
> 5: There are still chemical additives used in German beer.
To claim that water purification is "adding chemicals to beer" is at best disingenuous. In reality it's a flat-out, bald-faced lie, no different than writing "There's poison in Bavarian beer!!!" because the water used may have been chlorinated at the time of processing.
> 10. German brewers do not always stick to the Reinheitsgebot themselves.
Because it hasn't been an actual, enforceable law for years. It was killed by Europe and a bunch of brewers who DO add everything possible, including: artificial flavouring agents, stabilizers, foam conditioners, and preservatives like heptyl paraben.
And if you're going to claim that Bavarian beer makers use additives for their exported stuff but not for their local market you need to back that up. Heineken is not a Bavarian beer.
I love the Belgian beers and travel every few months around the country stocking up not only at Carrefour but picking up great small-quantity local and trappist beers in all 10 provinces. Nevertheless, the beer here in Bavaria is damned good and doesn't need the crap additives that brewers such as Anheuser-Busch and InBev throw in swill such as Bud Light and Oranjeboom in order to keep you from spitting it out the instant it touches your tongue. We also don't like companies coming in (InBev), buying up the good breweries (Löwenbräu), "tuning" the flavour to give it more mass appeal, then moving the brewery altogether (Hoegaarden, Jupiter).
Regards,
BadDoggie
JN: You're wrong as well. You can
always compare beer. You can contrast it, too. It helps to actually drink the beer before doing so, but not too much. You're wronger still in saying that you can't get a variety here. There are lots of stores which stock foreign beers. The reason you can't find the Belgian stuff here is that there's no distributor and low demand. I've looked into that already.
woof.
Johnny Norfolk
Nov 8 2006, 2:36 pm
Mellisia.
My home is in Norfolk , I have a holiday home in france and a rented house in germany.
I work mainly in Germany and france as a logistics consultant. I was going to retire this year but i have been offered further 2 years in germany and have decided to take it. I expect to spend about 3/4 months in Germany about 2/3 months in France, and the rsesy in London and Norfolk.
I see the difference in all countries and if anything GB is about to go backwards thanks to labour but germany have not evem got to the starting blocks. Believe me.
rick_de
Nov 8 2006, 2:46 pm
QUOTE (pike @ Nov 8 2006, 2:03 pm)

Britain is indeed trying to become a global economic hub, with easy-going takeover rules, huge inward investment, generous bankruptcy provision
Back on a trip to Britain in the 90s I was shocked to see a high street bank with the cryptic name of "HSBC". I then found out it stood for "Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank" - and had taken the place of the old Midland Bank!
Imagine if Deutsche Bank dissappeared and became "First Beijing Bank" or something!
rick_de
Nov 8 2006, 2:46 pm
QUOTE (Johnny Norfolk @ Nov 8 2006, 12:40 pm)

I will be staying another 2 years in germany. the company like what i have to say.
They like what you have to say.. On this board?!?
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 2:50 pm
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Nov 8 2006, 2:34 pm)

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
What, the entire article? Hardly.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Nov 8 2006, 2:34 pm)

> 2: It's a bread protection rather than beer protection law.
Nope. The RhG was one of the first-ever food purity laws and targeted basic foods, including bread and beer (unless you wanted cholera you didn't drink plain water). It also served to keep the unwashed masses from drinking the nobility-only Weißbier. In 1603 the Elector of Bavaria /mandated/ that wheat be also used for beer.
Actually, what he wrote is true. According to
Wikipedia:
QUOTE
The Reinheitsgebot was introduced in part to prevent price competition with bakers for wheat and rye. The restriction of grains to barley was meant to ensure the availability of sufficient amounts of affordable bread, as the more valuable wheat and rye were reserved for use by bakers. Today many Bavarian beers are again brewed using wheat and are thus no longer compliant with the Reinheitsgebot.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Nov 8 2006, 2:34 pm)

> 5: There are still chemical additives used in German beer.
To claim that water purification is "adding chemicals to beer" is at best disingenuous. In reality it's a flat-out, bald-faced lie, no different than writing "There's poison in Bavarian beer!!!" because the water used may have been chlorinated at the time of processing.
Brewers always change the composition of the water before they use it. Most of the time they are changing its mineral content to make it suitable for a particular style of beer, but the "Beer purity law" nonetheless allows the brewer to add whatever he wants to the water. That is the contradiction that was being highlighted; it's hardly a lie.
QUOTE (BadDoggie @ Nov 8 2006, 2:34 pm)

the beer here in Bavaria is damned good
On the whole, yes. But there is also some truly awful beer brewed in Bavaria. The point he was making is that the Reinheitsgebot does not guarantee tasty beer.
I posted the article because the general perception that all British beer is bad and all German beer is good is something that drives me up the wall. Britain brews some of the best beers in the world and it depresses me enormously that most Brits don't even realise it.
kwenga
Nov 8 2006, 3:00 pm
QUOTE (Small Town Boy @ Nov 8 2006, 2:50 pm)

Britain brews some of the best beers in the world and it depresses me enormously that most Brits don't even realise it.
Seems to me the rest of the world doesn't realize it either
YorkshireLad6
Nov 8 2006, 3:09 pm
Much though I hate to continue the downward spiral of this thread into a beer quality thread, I think both German and UK have many EXCELLENT beers. Different, but nonetheless excellent. Both also have horrible beers too, so best to avoid them.
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 3:11 pm
QUOTE (kwenga @ Nov 8 2006, 3:00 pm)

Seems to me the rest of the world doesn't realize it either
Exactly. But anyone who knows anything about beer knows that the three great brewing nations are Britain, Belgium and Germany.
MonksTown
Nov 8 2006, 3:23 pm
*cough*
Czech Republic too.
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 3:25 pm
Technically yes, but for some reason they never get mentioned. I think they don't have enough variety or all that many breweries per head, although as inventors of golden beer they are certainly important in brewing history. And Budvar is my favourite golden beer.
SleeplessInMunich
Nov 8 2006, 3:26 pm
Ireland...
Small Town Boy
Nov 8 2006, 3:28 pm
No way. A handful of breweries producing British-style beers, badly.
Eck Spatz
Nov 8 2006, 3:30 pm
QUOTE (SleeplessInMunich @ Nov 8 2006, 3:26 pm)

Ireland...
Ha?
SleeplessInMunich
Nov 8 2006, 3:31 pm
Tell me a british beer that is as well know as Guinness...
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