Lower back pain

As a result of various slipped discs and a couple of other problems, my back hurts pretty much all the time. I'm running out of ideas on what I can do to relieve the pain.

Here's what I've already tried:

-I swim three times a week and do special exercises twice a day
-I've been to see a rolfer (which improved my posture and was very helpful in a lot of ways, but it still hurts)
-I've had physio at regular intervals (also helpful, but just temporarily)
-I've been to a few osteopaths
-I've had accupuncture (did nothing for me)
-I've tried yoga. It hurt more.

Has anyone out there had similar problems and if so, what has helped you? I'd be happy for any ideas...

my husband has compressed disks in his lower back and his doc recommended an inversion bed. He uses it faithfully everyday he is home and it seems to help. I have tried it and it did nothing for me though.

Feldenkreis? If you've really tried all the rest, your problem sounds like it's quite bad. Certainly Feldenkreis is then worth a try...it gets you to use muscles that you have neglected, correct movements that you may have been doing wrong all your life.. You would really have to do it with a "teacher"; it's not the sort of thing you can easily stick at by yourself.

Speaking of which, how did you try yoga? I got rid of my back problems (admittedly not very bad ones) by doing yoga - but again, for yoga until you have learnt how to do it properly there is a world of difference between trying it yourself/with a book/CD and doing it with a teacher...by yourself you can either get no benefit or actually do damage to yourself. Just a thought: there are also special course for yoga specifically aimed at back problems.

I don't have any slipped disks, but a small dettachment on my lower spine nerve. It also hurts regularly, but swimming helps a lot. When I was doing physio they told me that movement always will help to lower the pain becuase it increases circulation. I'm supposed to do some special exercises also, but almost never do them.
Have you gone to your orthopedist lately?
A good massage also helps a lot.

hi Val

my assistant has just come back after having an operation to remove a sequester that resulted froma slipped disc. That has had a very dramatic effect on her sop that she has hardly any pain now. Have you had Xrays to see if the slipped disks have left any debris or sequesters that could be causing the pain?

My boyfriend has a disc that slips from time to time. He had to do these special exercises too. But, what really helped him was regular working out - lifting weights and stretching.
How many different doctors have you seen so far? Perhaps a new doctor with a different perspective can help you.

I've had a MRI scan in March - very small amount of degradation of my L1.

I use to row eights a long time ago ,had a little back pain , then switched to weights and in particular squatting with proper technique which cleared everything up. It seems counter intuitive but 315 lbs on the squat bar has strengthened my back and relieved me of back pain.

Thanks for all the tips...

-I haven't tried Feldenkreis, but I've heard good things about it from my sport therapist sister-in-law, so it might my next back fixing activity. I've also heard good things about Tai Chi.

-I did yoga at a special class for people with back problems, and a after a few weeks I couldn't walk...but I think maybe the teacher wasn't that well informed on how to deal with people with my specific problem.

-I've had x-rays and two kernspintomographies (English word??) and have been to various orthopedists, some of whom encouraged me to have surgery, others who said "auf gar keinen Fall". Each of them had an entirely different opinion, which left me not really knowing what to do. I think if the pain keeps up for much longer I might consider it.

-I don't know if the inversion table would be so good for me... I think it really depends on the nature of one's back pain, but I've been told that in my case it could make it worse.

I have one of those cube shaped hard cushions at home, if you lie on your back with your calves on the top of the cushion it helps relieve some of the pain. I also use those heat-giving creams.

@parnell: I've heard that weights can be really good too. There's even a therapy center in Hamburg where patients are made to lift and carry heavy objects... I guess the idea is that using your back "the right way" is much healthier than trying to protect it by not lifting anything at all. But since I can't even carry a bag of groceries two blocks at the moment, I think I would definitely need some instruction before I could lift twice my weight...

@Uncle Nick: I'm completely addicted to those heat-giving creams. There's nothing quite like a flat that smells of Tiger Balm. Reminds me of my granny's house.

I hate so much the smell of those heating balsams!! I use some times one called Finalgon which was recommended by my orthopedist. Quite effective and without the smell. Or at least not as strong smelling as bengay for instance.

Many doctors will recommend that you strengthen your abdominal muscles because they help support and take pressure off the back.

I know...I do crunches every day (which haven't relieved my back pain, but have done wonders for my pot belly... )

My lower back only ever plays up when my knee does, if the knee (ACL surgery in March 2006) starts to jam then I get lower back pain due to a lack of alignment and because I'm lifting the hip to compensate for the lack of knee flexibility.
My physio at Reha Nymphenburg 108a following my treatment from Sportsmedizin München works with me so that I keep the mobility but if I don't train, I get pain.
Pal of mine had the lower back surgery and got her injury due to yoga with an untrained teacher. There are some training places more suitable to reha or post-reha training. Reha Nymphenburg lets me weight-train there, ConSports, SportsMed and the like may be more suitable for building up a training programme if you're not going to go for a Kür (worth discussing with your doctor).
If you like the relaxing and stretching aspect of yoga and want to try similar, you might want to look at CityPhysio's Gyrotonic Expansion System (with a physiotherapist and only on prescription) or PilatesBody, a non-prescription pilates place which only has Stott Pilates trained staff (one of my physios from Medical Park Bad Wiessee where I had my Kür teaches there).
Good luck whatever you look into.

Drink more!

Thanks Katrina. I may look into Reha Nymphemburg (I live in Neuhausen so it would be close by) and Pilates (which has helped me before but I haven't tried it since moving to Munich).

@Grinner: excellent advice.

You do NOT protect your back by not lifting at all - one of the largest muscle groups in your body is your spinal erectors. If you really are in trouble I recomend 6 months at Kieser training - there's rakes of them in Munich - they have MedX machines which are absolutely fantastic - the guy who designed them is a freaking legend (Arthur Jones) in the lifting community. They instruct you on how to use them there in a very controlled style - which I think is perfect for rehab purposes but far too boring long term because it's not challenging. This is also relatively cheap and you won't have to bother your arse with quacks.

well, Janina had specvialists advising her against and in favour of it so much so that she didn't know what on earth to do. In the end the pain was so much that she went for the operation and although she had qualms it looks to have been a complete success.

If you're going to do pilates, always check the qualifications of the teacher involved. There are many training bodies and a hell of a lot of people teaching who have only done a weekend course.
The guy I know at PilatesBody is a qualified physiotherapist and Stott qualified (one of the largest training bodies) so I knew I was in safe hands, it is far too easy to do yourself yet more damage.
Working with a physio to get a weight training package in place makes sense, if you can have that initial training supervised by a physio or sports scientist all the better. There is a lot you can do wrong yourself, btw for Reha Nymphenburg you'd probably need a prescription for physio but it shouldn't be a problem to get one.
Have you ever been on a Kür? It could be a good idea to gain good back habits.
As per my knee, I've gone from zero mobility to close to full mobility since March and can now manage 4 aerobics classes a week plus weights, my fitness is coming back and I'm back into good BMI territory, as parnell says use it or lose it, immobility will not help you to gain mobility.

@parnell: I agree with you about the need to use the back muscles and strengthen them, but there is still the odd doctor out there who'll say "stay on your back and don't move". While I think it's horrible advice, it's still pretty common.

I actually did Kieser Training for 2 years and it helped for a while, but then it actually got worse. The problem at Kieser is that a lot of the folks who work there don't have that much training and (at least in my experience) they'll put you on machines that can actually exacerbate your problem... some health professionals recommend it, others say I should stay away from it. Again, I think it really depends on the individual problem. Kieser is great for some people, but it's certainly not for everybody.

@Katrina: I've never been on a Kür... no doctor has ever wanted to prescribe one (I guess they're all under pressure from the Krankenkassen and they don't hand them out as easily as they once did). I have done "ambulante Reha" though, with Rückenschule and everything, so I have learned the basics.

@BTC: Yeah, I have qualms about it too, but my cousin just had disc replacement surgery last week and is already feeling better than she has in years, so if I hear enough success stories and surgery makes sense for me, I might end up doing it. Several doctors have said that these slipped discs are "just the beginning of my back pain career", so surgery might end up being inevitable. Plus bad spines seem to run in the family...

are you lying about your age? geez, to have so many problems that young?

i know i had some lower, lower back pain, well, upper butt pain is where i would pinpoint my problem and so i went to the doc to get them to prescribe me some physio so someone could show me how to strengthen the area exactly so i can do it at home and the doc said, the krankenkasse helps you solve your problem, not prevent it. so knowing that i jogged, he wrote me a prescripton for inlays for my shoes & said let's start with that. of course, then i started getting shin splints, so i stopped jogging altogether. i get that same pain when i sit for too long.

@Elfenstar: I know, I know, I sound like an old lady, but I started having problems when I was 19. Just some bad genes I guess.

So far, swimming has been the best thing for me. It relaxes and strengthens my muscles, it's a great cardiovascular exercise, and I really enjoy it. It's almost like a form of meditation. I used to jog, but I'm a little scared of it now, even though most doctors have told me it should be fine. I just don't want to do anything that could potentially leave me on my back again for months on end.

In fact drinking more water is never a bad idea.

I have two compressed disks. The lumbar pain comes and goes but never seems to correlate to the amount of physio, exercises, sitting on special cushions etc that I may or may not do. The only thing that helps me every time is simply walking. I now go for a walk every day (not a stroll, a real walk that warms up the muscles nicely - but NOT with any daft sticks) and that helps me loads. The best thing is to walk and walk for hours on end. Trouble is I never have those hours, particularly not on end.

The docs specifically advised me not to jog or run. That's where the walking thing came from.

smoking weed is great for back pain when trying to sleep at night

@Jeeves: I know what you mean about the sticks. Many a physiotherapist has sung the praises of Nordic Walking to me, but I can't handle the thought. The sticks, the outfits, the whole thing is just wrong. So I just walk quite a bit too, and cross-country ski as much as I can in winter, because then the sticks make sense.

ok last post on this topic - i think Kieser will get u to a point , personally I have zero faith in other half arsed health professionals - the information you require you should get from the net and by listening to your own body.
The last time I had a back injury was last November/December - I incurred it by walking for 12 hours round Berlin on concrete in shit shoes. More or less I was beating my spine in a vertical direction with a 80 pound hammer for that period, I knew I was in pain but I was chasing a mad Italian at the time... bad idea. Worse again I was getting close to my personal goal of 400lbs x 10 ass to floor squat. Next time back in the gym I was in real pain on the warm up 315 , had a chat with a real smart guy (physics PhD) about it and went for the MRI - that showed up "fuck all" - but it was worthwhile because I then knew that structurally the back was ok and that it was probably acute muscular fatigue of one sort or another ... so I left out heavy back work for a couple months - and made sure that i stretched the back regularly , now more or less I'm back under the rack and it's great - my back is coming on leaps and bounds as I'm getting the "right" kind of pain - the kind u get after a decent workout.
So if I was you and Kieser can't help - although really I wouldnt follow ALL the routine one of the guys there says - if a machine is hurting you fuck that particular chess piece , then I'd start squatting with an empty bar and build from there.

For instant relief I use "ThermaCare Lower Back Heat Wraps" - it's the only thing that works quickly. You can find ThermaCare products at most chemists here in Munich now as well. As I said, it's a relief, not a therapy. I've been looking for the right therapy for years but nothing seems to help me either
( http://www.thermacare.co.uk )

do you get numbness heading down the legs? I used to get that really bad with bad pain, after lots of 'specialists' looking at my back, I was diagnosed with a degenerating L5 disk. The L4 and L6 squeeze it out, leading to muscle problems and pinched nerves. I was to have surgery about 20 years ago, said no, and went to a good chiropractic clinic. I swim, do aqua sports and am in a profession with the highest risk of back problems and have had no problems in years! I swear by chiro. I don't see one here, but I go everytime I am home. But I do have a number for one here.
I wear good shoes with lots of support and that helps me alot too.

I would also recommend Feldenkrais, having recently completed a course where we learnt some of the basics. Like you say it´s about correcting movements that are bad for your body, but that have become habitual. You start off on your stomach like a baby and work up from there. You go back to the beginning. Some of the exercises were a bit strange, but they certainly seem to work. Say you have a bad knee, the "teacher" looks at the way you walk and suggests you try walking in a different way. Or you may be asked to lie down and instead of working on your knee directly, they´ll maybe apply pressure to your shoulders. It´s interesting to discover how interconnected the human body is.

http://www.feldenkrais.de/index_new.htm