T-Online is obliged to delete IP logs

German ISP forced to delete IP logs:


See a sample letter to request deletion.

This case came about as a result of an Internet chat forum posting by Holger Voss. He posted in June 2002 expressing approval (albeit sarcastic) of the 9/11 terror attacks. See his original posting: Das Böse wurde mit der Wurzel ausgerissen

Two questions about this...

1. Anybody think it will also work with the other ISPs? Esp. the ones that resell T-online access?

2. How long will this actually be the case, seeing as Germany has signed the new EU Data Retension laws requiring ISPs to save ALL logs and email for 5 years or so..

Why only T-Online? If the Bundesgerichtshof has decided this for T-Online, surely it must be valid for all German ISPs, or at least will be in future.

Because the BGH had to rule in a specific case - somebody vs. t Online.
So technically this ruling only helps the plaintiff.
But I am sure that the other providers will act accoridingly.

The sample letter is address to the Amtsgericht Darmstadt - is this simply because T-Online is based in Darmstadt or is there some other significance?

If someone wanted to send a similar letter to, say, a Berlin-based ISP, would they have to write to the Amtsgericht Berlin?

It would have to or T-Online could fight it saying the judgment is prejudicial.


Until German data protection laws are repealed, rather unlikely. If you'd read the links you'd see that it applies to dynamic IPs only. Since they're continually re-assigned the retention could lead to confusion and an innocent person being charged for the crimes of another. RIAA's IP grabber comes to mind. Or so goeth the decision.

woof.

The Sample letter is a legal action sent to the court in Darmstadt. That is because the plaintiff was sueing T Com where he lives.

So if you are in Berlin you should sue them there.

But before everybody draggs the T Com into court: just sent them a nice letter, referring to the BGH ruling (mention the reference nr - unfortunately the server is down right now).

I don't understand. Does this mean the police can't trace who is using what IP?

I agree with the right to privacy and access should be restricted to them but like all things the internet is open to abuse, does this make it completely anonymous?

And what about the precedent of asking website owners to remove all copies of your IP ? Could this follow on too ?

It should be possible to match up who was using which IP address at the time but this is fallible.


Nope. While a site owner's logs contain may collect IP addresses there's nothing there to indicate the actual identity of the person using that IP.

woof.

Should I be worried about whether they do or dont delete them? What affect will this have on your average person?

Well, if you engage in P2P file-sharing, then the money-grabbing record/film companies won't be able to find out who is uploading their grotty material. They know the IP addresses of the people who upload, but without the name and address information from the ISP, that information is worthless.

There are other ways to track internet usage as most sites log you visits (true these are only IP based but AOL proved that people often give away enough info when interacting with sites to track them down).

The AOL logs also saw a lot of people searching for less seemly things so I'm not sure forcing ISP's to strip out all data which may be used to track offenders down is a good thing.

Yes action is increasing against P2P users but it makes a lot more sense for the RIAA/MPAA and their global counterparts to simply attack sources (the scene and the apps/sites that make it possible) or flood the networks with crapware (as they seem to have done to the FT network).

So I would have to ask telekom to delete my IP logs from now on?

I was also of the understanding, as briefly mentioned earlier that with german law you may be able to track which computer was using the IP to do something possibly illegal, but proving who was using that computer at that specific time was not possible. I may be wrong though

none, unless you have a tin hat on.