Suicide - would/could you kill yourself?

Have to agree with this but it does go a lot deeper.

This is a topic close to my heart because my mum committed suicide when I was 17 and I went through years of very mixed emotions.

There was times I was relieved because there was a part of my life that was over, I'll explain that further. My mum attempted suicide quite often from when I was 13 and everytime it was me that picked up the pieces, I actually got in a routine of going in her room of a morning checking to see if she had slashed her wrists, tried to hang herself or take an overdose, call an ambulance, go to the hospital and then go to school. I used to think that was normal. She eventually suceeded by jumping in the river, they didn't find her body for 5 weeks, but for those 5 weeks I went through hell wishing they would find her to wishing they wouldn't and then I could believe she was still alive, all very mixed up.

I sometimes hated myself because the night before she "disappeared" I had told her I wanted to move out because I couldn't take it anymore, it wasn't just the suicide attempt issues but she was an aggressive drunk a lot of the time and I just couldn't cope anymore. The worst part was that I wasn't really going to move out I just wanted to jolt her a bit maybe.

I sometimes hated her for the things she put me through and the fact that I had to work 4 jobs to pay for the funeral and rent arrears. I hated her for making me hate myself.

So all in all it leaves you with a lot of mixed, fucked up emotions.

She certainly wasn't a selfish person though, when she was sober and on an up she couldn't do enough, I just think she always felt a failure and she was in a lot of pain inside and for her that was the only way out.

yay! boomy's back!
we missed your "voice of boomy reason"

In the UK you can be detained under the Mental Health Act when you are considered a threat to yourself. In layman's terms it is called being sectioned i.e. you are compulsorly admitted to hospital. This and suicide are topics which have deep personal resonance with me because I have been and am still in this place after six years. Like BlueDave it was triggered by a relationship failure. I have had a few in my time and always bounced back unscathed and was less than sympathetic of friends and acquaintances who turned a break up into an epic tradgedy. Then I received my own and realised that you only know what a prison cell is like when you see the inside of the walls yourself.

I will not go into the suicide attempts, suffice to say that my unerring talent for failure ensured that I made a pig's ass of those as well. Do I have a bad life? All I can say is that the part of me that made life worthwhile disappeared six years ago and I have been fighting to regain him ever since. At the end of the day (I sound like Roy Keane now) medication, counselling, thoughtful friends and relatives are not the cure. This is a personal war which I am trying to win on a daily basis.

Only a short time ago I considered assisted suicide with a company called Dignatas in Switzerland because I thought at least they would not botch it up. It is a service used by people with terminal illnesses for the most part and it may be that people can understand suicide in these cases. My illness may not be terminal but it is life threatening and it makes life a living hell.

What do I want? I want to be able to do the simplest task without feeling it is the ascent of Mount Everest, I want to get out of bed, eat properly, enjoy relationships, feel content, go to bed at night and sleep. I want to do all the things I did so effortlessly before and maybe I did not appreciate them enough. But I will tell you try putting on the kettle when you have to think about the task and the joy soon evaporates.

Today I feel ok despite my spat with BTC, I hope to have many more. I would like to quote a Cistercian monk who I talk to when I am at my lowest, not because I am religious, but because he lets me see that there is still hope. So many people tell me that time will heal, and I wonder when that time will come and I ask him how I can keep going on and he says "simply because you have balls and integrity, and by continuing to try you will survive".

So thats my advice to anyone else in the same boat, keep trying its the only thing you can do. And I suppose "outing myself" is a curative step. I am ashamed that I have let this take over my life but I retain a certain pride that I am still in there fighting.

And after all that I am going to lie down

Thanks for sharing, that is a very brave thing to do on a forum like this. Perhaps someone out there will read your post and at the very least will know they aren't the only one suffering.

Snap ER

aye, fab that you are posting it on the forum
i think it is a curative step, it helped me a lot when i did it

Well, Like BD and Serri, I have been that low, that I felt there was no way out. Got my bank in order, got my apartment clean, my will, I didn't really think about that stuff, I just did it, then sat down one night a bottle Absolute and some Sleeping pills and Valium... if you are ever that deep in the hole, you see no light, you see no hope, you see no reason. The reasons aren't selfish, yes, I did think about my family and friends, I had been begging for months for help, but nobody had time, and they all said 'hey Carm, you are a strong person, you will snap out of it' well, I didn't. I did start swallowing the pills with the Vodka, but there was a picture of my 9month niece at the time my sister in law had given me, and she was smiling at me, I couldn't do, I did make myself throw up, called the crisis center and got help.
You can never judge a book by its cover, and you can never understand what its like til you have been there.
I am still alive, taking life one step at a time, and I know the warning signs, and get help when I need it.

well, if any of you needs closure, you'll (hopefully) be pleased to know that i've got flu, and *not* MS
that's according to my friendly local Hausarzt
i'm sure it was a very tricky diagnosis, but he's never let me down before, so hopefully he's right again this time

glad to hear it babe! you look after yourself *hugs*
drink lots of tea and orange juice and wrap up well

Nobody here -- not even you -- actually believed you had MS. And MS, at least in earlier stages, is nothing to kill yourself over unless you would also consider ending it all because of influ-END-za. I've had the flu pretty bad a few times but not enough to make me seriously consider killing myself. For one I didn't have the energy to do it even if I'd wanted to.

woof.

The title of this thread is what really disturbed me. I can only respond with the following:

Would you ever suicide?
Have you ever even tried?

I would not top myself, say I.
I would not do it; that's no lie.
I will not lie before a train
I will not shoot into my brain
I will not jump from a tall bridge
Nor from a mountain or a ridge
Poisoning is not for me
I am happy still to breathe.

Not with a train, not in a plane
Not in a box, not by a fox
(Not even sniffing dirty socks)
Not with a gun, not with a knife
I will not, shall not, take my life.

I won't do it, Topsy, ma'am,
I'd rather eat green eggs and ham.

woof.

of course i didn't really think i had it, bd
i was taking the piss out of my own hypochondriac tendencies

but having said that, if i did develop it (and touch wood i won't) then i would definitely look into it. not in the early stages, granted, but once quality of life deteriorated then i wouldn't want to stick around, no way.

I know alot of people with MS, and they lead and led very productive lives. One is now wheelchair bound, but she was one of my Teachers in Uni, and had it already 15 years.
That is just something to think about.

Did Dr Seuss really tell kids about suicide?

This is a fascinating thread, thanks all for sharing. I think I have identified most with Andrea, as I find myself on 'the other side'. I have never considered suicide or felt the feelings of despair abounding here. But I have been both the guardian angel and arch nemesis of my sister all my life; She has attempted suicide very many times and I have gone through so many emotions to try and deal with it and help her... I have gone from feeling desperately sorry for her to being insanely angry with her.. I believe I once even told her I’d bloody kill her if she tried to kill herself again!!
A brief background, she is the second oldest of 6, I am her little sister by just a few years, she has had severe epilepsy all her life, is the only one who didn’t go to university, doesn’t speak foreign languages or travel and has a truly massive inferiority complex about this. She also spent her teenage years and twenties consumed by jealousy for me specifically. The epilepsy means she can’t drive and the years of treatments have left her with side-effects, muscular degeneration, weight gain, lethargy which mean she works part time in a job with few prospects that she knows she has to cling on to as they would be quite happy to have a ‘difficult case’ off their hands. She has disasterous taste in men (not a coincidence) and a knack for creating drama and alienating people. All not a coincidence. I know that without these issues she would be a truly lovely, warm, generous, headstrong, adventurous, funny girl… because she can be those things some times…sometimes even for months… but no one but family can take the other side, they all walk away evenutally, and so she is isolated; a constant cycle of new friends, new hope, new disappointments.

I know I have talked her off the ledge a number of times, but I also think my inability to fully grasp the depths of her despair may only add to them. It is also so very complex, more than I can ever express here, but sometimes I just know it is also a tool to control and punish – I have been at the receiving end of some truly nasty, nasty treatment. She has launched sustained campaigns to sabotage everything I do – it started with nasty graffiti about me or rumours in school, that type of thing, but became both grander and subtler... she is very clever and manipulative.. god I feel guilty even saying that. I could not see past this once and thought I hated her but something clicked in me as I grew up a bit and I appreciated that however much bitterness consumes her, she was dealt tough cards and I was dealt good ones and this is rubbed in her face every day - and I am her family – the rest of the world will tell her ‘tough luck, deal with it’... I am one of a tiny number of people who can and must do otherwise, who must allow her vent her frustrations knowing these bridges can never be burnt. I remind myself of this all the time.

Still, I can categorise her attempts into when she is consumed by hate and anger for the world and wants to punish and when she is consumed by hate and pain for herself and just wants it to end. When it is a case of the former, I check the scene for authenticity and can usually find a little pile of pills hidden somewhere so I know she hasn’t taken as many as the bottles suggest and I go into my appropriate mode of action for that – tough love. When it is the latter, I know she really just wanted to end the pain and I go into the other mode, ultra supportive, loving, encouraging… but it sometimes makes me feel schizophrenic and I live in absolute fear that I will misjudge it someday and get it all wrong. She doesn’t want to die, she just wants another life.. a life that sometimes feels tantalizingly close but still time and time again gets snatched away. And there can be no rose tinted glasses, we both know it, but god it makes me so desperately, desperately sad for her and I truly love her enormously and hate this utter powerlessness I feel to change her lot. And when she’s strong she tries so, so hard.

Hmm, this was long, sorry… you know, I never even talk about this to anyone but my Mum.. I feel like I don’t have a right somehow to be affected because I should be so grateful it's not my lot, my pain - but it is mine in some small way too… she is an important part of my life and I want to do something real for her. But I can’t.

Wow mehithabel. A post from the heart and soul taking much courage. But as your post shows, you are a woman with great understanding and empathy, just maybe not enough strength in you to carry on as you have all these years. I hope you have a strong and integral support network around you - we all need one, even those propping up others.

Thanks hams, I do indeed and reckon I'm about as lucky as a girl can be... but see, luck and guilt go hand in hand with me!! Thank you.

Methithabel, that was a great post and your sister is luckier than she thinks. Sometimes, even families walk away because of the strain and burden that this type of illness exerts. As far as my faimly are concerned I am coping with things ok simply because they have coped with enough already and it is perhaps better that way. My younger sister commited suicide when she was twenty four after repeated attempts and years of self mutilation. Your description of your sister reminds me of her a great deal. Perhaps this is a family disease and it was just hibernating in me waiting to be triggered but I have chosen to fight it on my own because ultimately the buck stops with me and no one else.

The opportunity to talk openly and the support is helpful and appreciated (thanks everyone) but I am the only one who can get me another life or just allow me to be happy with the one I have and deep down I know that.

I have a great deal to be grateful for when I read about your sister, and she has a lot to be grateful for in you.

Take care...

you should really think about reading that book i recommended if you haven't already - it really helps a lot
Feeling Good - it only costs a fiver and it's money v. well spent, IME

Whats the title again Topsy? Its bound to help more than all the Tony Parsons books I have read lately, quasi- intellectual that I am. Oh you put the title while i was writing. Your'e a trooper even when you have the flu and cannot attend the Arc quiz.

That was always my thought and I've always worried that I will turn out like my mother, especially at the moment because I'm coming up to the same age as she was when she died, and I don't know if the thought of that has scared me into not turning out like her, if that makes sense. It's only been in the last few years that I have actually drunk alcohol in the house because I was always worried that I would get to used to it and not be able to stop. I must admit there are times I have been so down that I'll just sit and cry all day and before I moved back to the UK I had hit rock bottom as the 4 years prior to that were just so shitty, but it's the children that have kept me going because I wouldn't want to put them through what I went through and I often wonder where I would have been if I hadn't had them.

I think I mentioned before that I had recently started therapy, something I should have done years ago and strangely enough at the moment I end up having more down days than I did before, maybe because I'm having to rake up things that I had before just glazed over but I'm hoping that that is just the process and eventually I will end up having less down days than I did before. In a way it's helping me become more emotional and able to share my feelings with my friends in more of an emotional way rather than just so matter of factly which used to make me come across as such a hard bitch. I can actually cry in front of people now which is something I found very hard to do, I would just bottle things up and wait til I was on my own.

I think depression and/or suicidal thoughts are a lot more widespread then most people think and I'm sure it affects a lot of people in one way or another at some point in their lives.

Andrea you are guaranteed complete immunity because you laugh at my feeble attempts at humour. In fact, if you repeat this mantra when you go to bed every evening, "I have a flat stomach" I guarantee you will have one in three weeks without any exercise Just wanted to finish posting on a happy note.

I'm going to hold you to that and I'll be at your door when it doesn't happen - and you know what a bad reputation me and doors have

Andrea that is so common. Nothing like getting vulnerable and honest with yourself to bring up a wellspring of emotions.

Hang in there. Therapy takes time.

Andrea, hang in there, therapy takes time (like gemini said), I have been there, but once you get over that hump, its amazing. I felt like crap for a few weeks, as it opened old wounds and that really pained. But, there is a light, believe me. Just hang in there, and always be honest with yourself, its the best way to heal.

Well, there is depression... And there are some pretty good therapists out there.
Some pretty shitty ones as well. Make sure you choose wisely...

If you're depressed, it sounds a lot like this (check the thread to find out whom I'm quoting):


Having lost two people to suicide, I now see it as that individual's decision. And it's taken me some time to come to that conclusion. Both of them weren't just (for what it's worth) depressed but had chronic / terminal illness on their side.

Did you know by the way that attempted suicide is most common among teenagers but successful suicide is most common among the elderly? And that there are no official statistics?

i haven't read the whole thread but wanted to add my .02.

i've been depressed as far back as i can remember but finally got diagnosed in '91 (and diagnosed bipolar just a few years back). i took on therapy and medication and that seemed to help tremendously. until it got to be too much to handle when the prozac stopped working after 15 years. i couldn't pretend to be normal anymore. my anxiety was horrendous and and i was spiralling down - so bad that i checked myself into the hospital psych ward this past spring. i had fallen apart at work - if i'd called in sick i'd be dead. i had 6 different prescriptions and no one was home.

i spent 2 weeks inpatient (where my husband seems to believe i got a "break from it") where we changed my medications, 2 weeks outpatient and went back to work. i made it 6 weeks before i crashed again. i'm currently on long term disability while i go to day treatment all afternoon 3 times a week, group therapy once a week, and individual therapist and MD twice a month...and we still haven't gotten my depression under control. in september, i thought seriously about suicide again but barely held it together with the help of my friends & family.

a person just doesn't think clearly when they've hit that stage. all i could think about was how to end the pain. i didn't think about my family or friends or the pain i'd cause them if i died. sometimes, it doesn't matter what they think. so it seems selfish. big deal. it's always selfish to take care of yourself. if i can't take care of myself, how can i help take care of my family?

now, i don't think suicide is the answer for everyone but i can certainly understand why someone would do it. i'm not completely free of my suicidal ideation. sometimes it's passive, like wanting someone to run me off the road into the river, and other times, i hold my pills in my hands. it's a scary, scary place and i don't ever EVER want to be there again. but there's no guarantee, especially if things aren't under control.

i have signed what's called a safety agreement with my therapists stating i would call for help before i get that bad. i have one with some close friends too. when i feel like i can't hold on, i feel guilty on top of being suicidal. also not a good place to be.

i don't want to die, i just want to feel better. i don't know what it feels like to be well anymore. i'm just tired of being a burden on everyone...

and andrea, you'll feel bad as you dredge up the nasties, but therapy helps you see how to work through it and has wonderful tools to help you when things seem worse. it takes time. my therapist telss me that i can't do it all in one day. BUT I WANT TO!!! *whine* *stomp feet*

Thanks. I must admit I am enjoying going even through the emotional parts, it's an amazing feeling when you come out of "the hour", it's hard to explain. I must admit I used to be one of the people that thought that therapy was a waste of time and would say to anybody who has ever had the tiny thought to go but never bothered, just go you'd be amazed and what it can do.

Now I'm off to make another moany thread

catharsis is very rewarding!

I was on fluoxetine for a few months and it didn't seem to be working. I felt ok but blasé like I couldn't give a f*. I was then put on venlafaxine but it made me totally uncoordinated and incoherent and ended up with me in the Emergency Care Unit at Chesterfield Royal (UK). I am now being given mirtazapine, which seems to be much better but I get bizarre dreams about piles of food! At least I'm not getting dark thoughts about closing the existential circle with a walk into a lake with rocks in my pockets. My mental sharpness seems to have returned.

Anybody have any similar experiences with these medications? Personally I think I'd benefit with a) a good night's sleep when I don't wake up screaming and someone repeating the mantra 'you're an alright person, honest, feel good about yourself' (oh, and get the damn lawn cut for goodness-sake you lie around lazy person!)

Last night I had a dream about a big pyramid of ferrero roche as in the old advert, but they were vegebites (vegetarian chicken nugget approximation) rounded with chips and smothered with tomato suace. I think you're spoiling us ambassador (or pharmateuctical company)!

I took seratonin enhancers, never had any freaky dreams, but I used to get that night light wierdness, when I was out at night, all the street lights blended together as if they were on big long neon line.

@Carm
Know what you mean.
Walking through doorways in poor light freaks me out; like in a corridor of ghostly neon light.
The fact is it's just our minds responding to photons; our mental perception under these seratonin enhancers seems to make our minds also enhance physical stimuli. I've also experienced 'vapour trails' from moving objects in poor light. My imagination seems to be overdoing things!
The positive side is in interacting with the world rather than the depression making it a dull grey movie screen.
People reading this who haven't experienced profound depression probably haven't a clue what I'm talking about, but just to actually get motivated, to be stimulated, to feel part of the sensuary stimulus rather than just feel like passing it by ...

(e) is the only thing you should ever take to release large doses of Seratonin

I think they all DO have a terminal disease. It is the act of committing, itself. It's a kind of temporary brain disease, no doubt. Animals don't kill themselves, only humans are capable of this. It must be a disease related to this race, then...

Depending on the circumstances someone might decide its the best thing to do. I can understand someone with a terminal illness maybe wanting to be able to decide when they want to go.

It is mainly people who are suffering from some form of mental illness that kill themselves usually because their illness is left untreated or not taken seriously enough, it is an incredible waste and something that is in many cases preventable.

Weebles wobble and with enough of a push, they do fall down.

Lemmings ? Whales when they beach themselves ? Male spiders when they fancy a shag ?

Lemmings committing suicide is a myth

Bugger I always thought that was dead cool too ( pun intended )

As you know Topsy I struggle big time with depression and the thoughts of just wanting to just die to end the pain are often there. Suicide is a thought but dont have the courage to do it. Things are better and have a good therapist, but as she says its along road that will have ups and downs but the main thing is to get help. Its very easy to isolate yourself and often this is a danger sign.

Is it a selfish thought? Yes and No.

Yes to many people who dont understand and cant sadly see why anybody would consider suicide.Its very hard to understand the way somebody who has suicidal thoughts reasons and how they can contemplate it. Often many in the medical profession struggle to understand this and to help a person so its even harder for people not used to this line of thinking or dealing with people who think of suicide.


No speaking from experience, as in my case I sometimes think nobody cares and I wont be missed-even though its not true. I have very little contact with my family here or in the UK. What they say and do are two different things. I dont trust people except the odd person due to some things that have happened before. I have many Associates but wont let anybody come too near. Its often an act I put on that everything is OK or put on a "Tough " attitude and that nothing hurts physically or mentally but its not true mentally. Physically I dont feel pain that much but inside there is much pain and anguish.The pain and burden you carry is sometimes too much and you cant think straight and why in my case I anyalyse everything and feel a big disappointment and not worthy of anything. I see virtually everybody better than myself. Anyway I am likely not alone in this thinking pattern and having suffered most my life with it there is no quick solution and will likely to some extent always be there.Thing is not looking to delete this but just to cope with life

My main drug is sport and without Sport and one in particular then I basically have nothing. As stated I have very little contact wi my family, I know many people but have problems trusting people and create a protective barrier which again is a good and bad thing. I come from a bit of a rough background and was often in fights in School and have slept in Parks, Under Bridges etc when I was still at home with my parents. I have had friends die of drugs, even though I have never touched anything even a Cigarette as Sport always came first to me.The area I come from has a number of gangs and fights are normal. Many especially in Munich cant identify with this or sometimes why I do something or say something-mainly I will do it to push people away.Why? I dont know!
I have suffered many broken bones and dislocations with sport but thats easier to deal with than the pain inside. Broken bones are nothing for me and have in most cases worked with broken collarbones, Jaw, hand etc rather than take time off. Most people think thats crazy or cant comprehend it. When I am low and struggling then its very difficult to motivate myself to work or live basically.

There are many reasons why a Person will think/Commit suicide or do something which is maybe something totally unthinkable by normal thinking standards but usually there is a reason why and sometimes is very hard to desribe why we think or act like this but sadly we do.

I am glad to read that you have a good therapist to help you on the way and I truly hope you will be able to get out of those black holes completly. I remember another post of yours about your situation and once again, it touched me.

Having been confronted with the reality of depression recently...and getting really pissed off with all the well-meaning (and incredibly competent) profeesionals who have helped (except for raising the suicide question as a matter of professional obligation) one source of motivation for not topping myself is not to let the bastards who triggered the condition off so lightly, another is me mates who've been super. In a similar vane, if I was victim of a terminal illness (which I'm not, thank god, except life that is) I would really look forward to shooting the first moron who suggested a trip to Eurodysney .

Nice post Topsy...glad to hear it's "only Flu"

I dont want anybody to feel sorry for me or anything like that. I doubt I will get over it completely as its too ingrained and the Therapist said to think that it will go completely is being very optimistic! The advice she gave me is just treat one day or week at a time. When you have a low period look at your diary at the good times and the progress made. Dont isolate yourself and seek help ASAP!

The reason I posted what I post is maybe this would help somebody that they arent alone and whats more important in my opinion is that its OK to talk about depression and suicide and shouldnt be a taboo subject which to many people it still is. Some Aussies here may of heard of one of Australia former top Rugby League players and administrators called Steve Rogers who played for his country and was highly regarded.He was successful executive with his Club at Cronulla Sharksand His son played both League and Union for Australia. Had a great family and seemingly had everything but sadly last year Steve took his own life-Why? because the depression and he felt he couldnt open up and talk about it! I bet many guys are like this.

It doesnt matter who you are anybody can get depression and have suicidal thoughts and for me I dont think its wrong to discuss it. BUT people must get help as soon as possible. There are some good therapists and Docs but dont expect any miracle cures. Talk to your family especially your partner as if you dont say then how on earth can they understand why you do or say something and maybe both go together to Therapy as then it may be easier for both! There is certain forums+help on the net like one at www.about.com or www.depression amongst other sites which can help or you can chat to people who are suffereing similar things. The help to cope is there but you (the sufferer) must do the work and help yourself even though its a killer both physically and mentally.

Then take issue with me, because it is. It's the fucking cruelest thing you could ever do to your loved ones. How do they get over it? They don't. Ever.

Someone I loved very deeply killed themselves - I do not blame myself (or anyone else that was around him at the time) for not being able to stop him - he was on self destruct for a very, very long time.

In my opinion it was just a matter of time and no amount of love, support, understanding, care, attention, medication could have helped him.

@DallyM
I was not feeling sorry for you and I apologize if my post came across that way. It was not intended. The way you wrote touched me and I wanted to let you know.

I think that I have been depressed since my mother died and realizing after that just how far away from the family I am. A relative hanged himself a while back and I am definitely not happy about that either. I feel like I am just waiting around for more bad news sometimes.

Programme on BBC right now dealing with both sides of the coin, people left behind and also others who have attempted it, very worthwhile viewing for anyone who wants to understand the black hole.

After the birth of my first son I had a doctor put me on prozac..( the prozac days Grr) I actually did not think of my own suicide but I would spend hours a day thinking about how to kill most everyone around me.. save my son who is to this day the One of the lights of my life.. I was so worried something would happen to him.. I guarded him.. I finally had a friend notice that I was planning the demise of most of the world which I guess at first seemed really funny to her and then after about three months... she started to get worried.. who knew it was a side effect!!