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U.S. citizens will require clearance to leave USA

New "permission to travel" law from 14.Jan.2007

Toytown Germany > Discussion forum > Themes > Miscellaneous
Darkknight
It just keeps getting better... mad.gif

We're All Prisoners, Now: US Citizens to be Required ''Clearance'' to Leave USA

QUOTE
Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,
2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us
permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all
airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain
clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the
United States.

UPDATE: The Server has been slashdotted...
I'm looking for back-up/cached copies of the Orig. Article and will post it when I find it. In the mean time
here is the link to the Proposed New Law

UPDATE2: Full story text below... Scroll Down
DDBug
OMG blink.gif
perdido
Absolute bullshit by the adminstration.
Kay
Big Brother is watching you already, the link doesn't work!
Sin
Without wanting to enter into the debate at this stage, you can download the document as a .pdf here.

The Summary states:

QUOTE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

Bureau of Customs and Border Protection

19 CFR Parts 4 and 122

[USCBP–2005–0003]RIN 1651–AA62

Passenger Manifests for Commercial Aircraft Arriving in and Departing From the United States; Passenger and Crew Manifests for Commercial Vessels Departing From the United States

AGENCY: Customs and Border Protection, Department of Homeland Security. ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking.

SUMMARY: This rule proposes to amend existing Bureau of Customs and Border Protection regulations concerning electronic manifest transmission requirements relative to passengers, crew members, and non-crew members traveling onboard international commercial flights and voyages. Under current regulations, air carriers must transmit to the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection (CBP), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), passenger manifest information for aircraft en route to the United States no later than 15 minutes after the departure of the aircraft. This proposed rule implements the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004 requirement that such information be provided to the government before departure of the aircraft. This proposed rule provides air carriers a choice between transmitting complete manifests no later than 60-minutes prior to departure of the aircraft or transmitting manifest information on passengers as each passenger checks in for the flight, up to but no later than 15 minutes prior to departure. The rule also proposes to amend the definition of ‘‘departure’’ for aircraft to mean the moment the aircraft is pushed back from the gate. For vessel departures from the United States, the rule proposes transmission of passenger and crew manifests no later than 60 minutes prior to departure of the vessel.
perdido
QUOTE
Without wanting to enter into the debate at this stage, you can download the document as a .pdf here.

Ssshhh Sin Im trying to listen to reason. *Is that an echo I hear?*
eurovol
Summary sounds benign if not more of a pain for the transportation industry, would have to read the fine print to see what is really involved and how it could affect the average traveller.
Darkknight
Full text of Orig. story... (Sorry Mods. Full free to Delete when the Orig. server regains consciousness)

QUOTE (Darkknight @ Nov 4 2006, 4:40 pm) *
Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,
2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us
permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all
airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain
clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the
United States.

It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport - a "travel document"
that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually
unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you
want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the
agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the
request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United
States.

Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on
assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to
expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait!
You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA.
Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid
detention center, where you and others who are now effectively
"stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until
their immigration status is sorted out.

Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United
States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be
an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of
appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant,
without probable cause and without even any particular degree of
suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're
a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or
not you hold a U.S. passport.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional
right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the
right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The
United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of
travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a
lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier
this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a
native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition
lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.

Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history
that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission.
If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to
this list.

For more information on this proposed regulation, see http://
hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.
Sin
QUOTE (perdido @ Nov 4 2006, 4:56 pm) *
Ssshhh Sin Im trying to listen to reason.

Sorry. Are they good? What's their album called?
perdido
" A Million Reasons To Leave Home "
Sin
Sounds like a good title. Would you recommend it?
Hutcho
And I thought Replublicans were all about small government.. maybe I was thinking about some other party..
BadDoggie
Typical Darkknight bullshit. This is a conspiracy theory site, not a primary news site or resource. The proposed rules, while invasive, do not require Soviet-style exit permissions, only that carriers provide the US with passenger manifests within 15 minutes of departure or 24-36 hours in advance in the case of ships.

Am I for this? Hell no. Is it what Darkknight and Slashdot are making it out to be? Hell no.

woof.
cinzia
Isn't this the same information European airlines were finally forced a few weeks ago to begin sending to the USDHS for all passengers on flights destined for the US?

If so, those of us who are US citizens living in Europe are already screened going in to the US. This just means we will be screened again returning "home."

I'm with BadDoggie. It's irritating, but I'd rather worry about how to properly pack my carry-on liquids.
Crawlie
Blatant bit of scaremongering going on here. Nothing too much to worry about
Guy
QUOTE (cinzia @ Nov 4 2006, 10:08 pm) *
Isn't this the same information European airlines were finally forced a few weeks ago to begin sending to the USDHS for all passengers on flights destined for the US?

Well, yes, they did have to start sending the information. But before that, due to EC incompentence, the US had unrestricted access to all flight data. blink.gif
mere
i could be wrong, but isn't his PROPOSED law and not actual?
if so then the thread title is false and misleading.

but if it is current law (or is already signed to be and will be enacted on Jan 14) then ignore this.
perdido
the inquisition here we go, the inquisition now you know, I know your wishing that we go away, but the inquisition here and its here stay...hey babyluba what do you say ?...
profundo
Mods, please change the title to read "may" instead of "will".
And then move the thread to a new "conspiracy" section.
k, thnx
Sin
QUOTE (perdido @ Nov 5 2006, 10:45 am) *
the inquisition here we go, the inquisition now you know, I know your wishing that we go away, but the inquisition here and its here stay...hey babyluba what do you say ?...

NOT The Comfy Chair!!! ohmy.gif
YMI
Now, DHS has the power not only to copy the contents of your laptop and cell phone but also your papers without any reasonable cause.
Darkknight
Actually its been able to do this for some time now.. Its just now being mentioned by the media.
YMI
Since July, they have been able to do it. Maybe the upcoming elections have something to do with this topic re-surfacing?
perdido
Is your passport photo the same as you profile pic? This could be their reasoning.
horseshoe7
So, USA is anti-socialism, but pro-Stasi?? interesting...
cinzia
Beware the trial lawyers!

This is a good thread for this one, too, which I've also added to the US elections thread, just in case it has something to do with that:

QUOTE (cinzia @ Sep 24 2008, 11:11 pm) *
In other news:
According to the September 8 Army Times, the Army will deploy its first ever full-time combat unit within the borders of the United States, starting October 1. While troops have previously been mobilized within the US, as they were to help in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, employing combat troops in any extended capacity to serve as domestic law enforcement is in open violation of the Posse Comitatus Act as it has been historically interpreted from its passage in 1878 until its dismantling under the Bush Administration.

Still, there has not been a full-scale deployment of troops within the borders of the United States since the end of the Reconstruction. This 130-year restriction on the use of military for civilian policing will end on October 1, 2008.
DDBug
nice one dry.gif

And people ask why I'm in no hurry to rush my kids to live in the states rolleyes.gif
MrNosey
I'll have to remember to carry a copy of Al Baath and Makor Rishon in my suitcase next time I fly into the US. That'll confuse the hell out of them.
Freising
I love the title of this thread. Made me think of the good old times of the cold war. I almost expected to read a George W. Bush quote: "Noone has the intention to build a wall." biggrin.gif
krostitzer
the us is on the way to becoming a theocratic police state. better to be outside than in.
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