Rugby: England vs. New Zealand

Wales still doing well.

Well, a win's a win, close call though and achieved by graft rather than skill.

I was happy with Scotland, first half was great and 2nd half played a bit naff but still a nice win

hmm ok ... well 1st up delighted with Ireland , blooding loads of new players (Neil & Rory Best) , holding the Aussies try-less but still rubbish in the scrum - will be interested to see how the rule change on Jan 1st affects this.

England - well only watched the 1st 20 mins but to be honest they're defence was rubbish , with South Africa punching through but being stopped by hail mary tackles - fair fucks to Lewsey tho. I see Sheridan is out for the whole season now - this is where the rule change will help a guy like Vickery to stay in there what with his dodgy back and all. What do u guys think about next weekend ?

Wales - am wondering what Owain and a few guys think about Stephen Jones' comment about all-out attack vs the All Blacks being the only way - think that'd make sense if Wales had forward superiority but that's not so clear , least not to me. Comments ?

Well done to Ireland for the brilliant score line against the ockers. I missed the game...was it a good watch? How does this affect their world ranking? Does it pull them above the Aussies?

According to the IRB site it moves Ireland up to 3rd and not too far from France either.

1(1) NEW ZEALAND 94.59
2(2) FRANCE 85.86
3(5) IRELAND 84.68
4(3) AUSTRALIA 84.63
5(4) SOUTH AFRICA 83.83
6(6) ARGENTINA 79.70
7(7) ENGLAND 79.55
8(8) SCOTLAND 77.72
9(9) WALES 77.02

dunno , mate was a bit down so i was helpin cheering him up more than watching the game as to be honest it looked like it was all attack from Ireland from the get go... maybe that's biased and bluedave can give a more honest and impartial assessment.
So Wibble , comments on England ?

Spoke to my dad last night and he was still laughing about the rugby. Said he didn't think he'ld live to see an Irish team taking off it's best players to give them a rest.

missed the ireland game, but it sounds like it was a cracker. managed to see the england game down in the arc, spent the first half feeling seriously pissed off at a fair few of the boys in white. some horrible horrible mistakes and the kicking was pathetic. the last ten minutes had me on a knife edge. shame about hodgson and sheridan, although to be honest i think charlie has been horribly underperforming in an england shirt.

Ireland were superb and clearly up for it whilst i've never seen an Ozzie side produce as many handling errors and missed tackles, it looked like they were all dreaming of being back home in Oz in mid summer rather than being out in driving rain and wind on a Dublin park.

think that's very true , Sheridan is a big loss even if he's still new to international rugby but Hodgson is just terrible for England - Andy Goode despite looking absolutely awful at the raw age of 26 is very steady and just what England need if they are to strong a couple of wins together.

I still think England need a complete reorganisation within the backrow 3 and all the way down to 13.

I think Lund or Rees need to be used, Dan Ward-Smith needs to be tried at 8 although I suspect if Corry sits out it will be Dayglo who comes in for him. Even Chris Jones is worth a look at 8 if need be.

I'd give Perry another chance with a decent backrow 3 and Ward-Smith is a club colleague so they have a good understanding.

With Hodgson out I'd take another look at Barkley when he's fully match fit which he may even be already. Either play him at 10 and Abbott at 12 or play Goode at 10 and Barkley at 12. At least then we can try someone like Tait at 13 if we play with Abbott at 12 or maybe Noon/Tindall at 13 if we go with Barkley at IC.

Tindall ? Surely a backward step

I think Dayglo being allowed anywhere near the national side is suicide but fuck it , seems like England love kicking themselves in the head. Dan Ward Smith is fucking huge , is he mobile ? I remember thinking that this somehow limits Martin Corry's game - cos the guy has a huge heart.
Tindall - again agree with Dave - will be snuffed out by any side with tactical nous.

Probably true and by no means my ideal scenario but if we are playing with 2 kickers then we need a hard hitter at OC and that really only leaves him and Noon. Personally I'd prefer to play with a more exciting looking back division of Barkley, Abbott and Tait/Smith/JSD.

My pick for next October's World Cup final in Paris:
France 9 - New Zealand 29
Wait a minute! That's the same final score of the inaugural Rugby World Cup played at Eden Park, Auckland 1987. Hmmm...

Oh crap! I just checked the ticket prices for the RWC 2007 Final. The cheapest (Category 3) are about €1,000. Add accommodation and travel fares and all I can say is: F**k that.

Comments on Ashton's squad ? No sign of Andy Goode and Billy Whiz to come out of international retirement. Wilkinson back in ? Win or bust strategy that's for sure.

Vickery now captain and Mike Catt back too, looks like Dad's Army

Ah, but the selecters decided not to pick another oldie - Lawrence Dallaglio. He hoped to be recalled to the squad. Good thing he wasn't. Like you said, it's a bit like a Dad's Army. Tindall, Catt, Robinson, Wilkinson...
Look at this sad line-up:

Backs - Iain Balshaw, Mike Catt, Mark Cueto, Harry Ellis, Andy Farrell, Toby Flood, Shane Geraghty, Josh Lewsey, Jamie Noon, Shaun Perry, Jason Robinson, Peter Richards, Paul Sackey, Mathew Tait, Mike Tindall, Jonny Wilkinson.

Forwards - Alex Brown, George Chuter, Martin Corry, Louis Deacon, Perry Freshwater, Danny Grewcock, Magnus Lund, Lee Mears, Lewis Moody, Tim Payne, Tom Palmer, Tom Rees, Steve Thompson, Phil Vickery (captain), Dan Ward-Smith, Julian White, Joe Worsley.

Could be a smart move , they have Scotland and Italy both at home first before they travel to Croke Park - that squad has a lot of firepower but not a lot of trench ability - I'd be quite confident of two BIG English wins to start the 6N.

Surprised old twinkle toes himself, Matt Dawson hasn't had a recall

Intersting and positve in Many ways. Form rather than reputation seems to be the deciding factor

Aricle in the Guardian puts the changes in an interesting light.

Not only is he back, but is now so fast that the irish obviouosly dont have time to read his name! Interesting squad. Not sure about the choice of Vickery as captain, not because of his ability to do the job but because he seems to be on borrowed (non-injury) time. The Saxons (aka the England A) squad is looking very interesting! Obviously to be used as a work out for a couple of replacements.

Will be interesting to see Andy Farrell. Faz was a forward in League-his last couple seasons at Prop! His body is Fucked. His knees and shoulder are weak which is why Wigan let him go for next to nothing! I know his Youth Coach Hayden Walker who he still keeps in contact with and last time I met him and we couldnt believe how stupid the RFU are ( Taking in to account the amount of Injury Faz has had in his last 2 years at Wigan and how most people in the know in Rugby League knew Faz couldnt play consistantly over a season due to the damage his body has had-and has been shown in his time in Rugby Union!)and especially the money is on-which is more than whats been quoted in the papers!

Hayden also was reserve team coach at Wigan in the early 1990s when Faz was there in the days when one of the best League centres ever Gene Miles alongside Martin Offiah, Andy Gregory, Phil Clarke, Shaun Edwards, Kevin Skerritt etc when Wigan were winning everything in sight!. So Hayden knows Faz very well and told him to accept the money when Faz asked him what he should do.Faz also asked a couple of other people as well by the way.

Faz has a son Owen who is a good player-think he is 14. Big and strong, similar build to his dad and plays for a team in the St.Albans/Hemel Hempstead area but also plays for a Rugby League team in Summer down there.

England cant be any worse than when they were under Robinson. I here he had no idea on tactical awareness and had no idea on changing his teams tactics during a game but was very knowledgeable on Fitness and this area in training! I think Ashton will be good though. Having seen Mike Ford (Defence and Skills Coach) play Rugby League for Wigan, Castleford, Oldham etc (He was a scrum half and could read the game very well) and know people who have played in the same team as him I think he will be good for England and will compliment Ashton. Two Lancastrians involved with Rugby Union. Will see how thwy go but think slowly England will get better. To expect massive changes is wrong as there were many things wrong with Robinson and his approach and time is needed to help the players understand how Ashton and Co want them to play as well as build some confidence and belief back in the side.