Avalanche safety equipment for powder skiing

This winter I'm looking to do a DAV course on powder skiing. They insist on having an ABS avalanche rucksack as well as the usual LVS search thing, shovel and probe. All this lot together can easily cost 1000 euro, which I don't really have. The rucksacks especially are very expensive and can't be rented from the DAV.

Do any of you have any experience with the ABS rucksacks and LVS geraete? I guess few people have used them in anger but what brands are good, ie. not too expensive but still functioning OK? What are the things to look out for and those to avoid?

Since when do they ask for these rucksacks?

Real life experience... Thankfully, no.

I have no experience of ABS packs, but I can tell you a bit about avalanche beacons. First off, there are two kinds: digital and analogue. Both work perfectly together using the same frequency. Analogue is the older technology; cheaper, but a bit tougher to master. Shorter learning curve with digital, but more expensive, but these also can come with some additional bells and whistles. The fact of the matter is that both types require proper learning, which you'll get at your avalanche course.

I personally have an old school Pieps analogue one that I bought off eBay last year for 100 euros. New analogues go for around 220 euros I think. New digital ones go for around 350 euros. Other brands include Ortovox, Mammut/Barryvox, etc.

More detailed reading can be found here

I can recommend Ortovox for your probe and shovel, I think they even do package deals where you can get both in one go. Just check out their website.

I've got an ABS bag that I bought at Sport Schek in Munich about two years ago. Just happened that they had a sale on the bag, 20% or so. I can't recall exactly how much it was, but it ran about 450-500 EUR...

When you buy it, you are showed how to activate the balloons, refit a new canister and repack the balloons. This is done at the store and the guy was extremely helpful.

The bag is a little bit larger so I can fit a few things in there, like:

2 Sonders (graphite probes)
a camelpack (water)
an off-piste guide book of St. Anton
a hat, gloves, etc
a shovel handle

On the outside, there are straps that I fix the shovel to. I would get an aluminum one as the plastic ones could crack it you wipe out. Also, I would prefer to keep the shovel IN the pack as well, but it is held very fest on the outside. Reason being, if you get into an avalanche, all of this shit will be ripped off your body anyways. The pack has two straps which will hold it to your body - important when you deploy your balloons.

http://www.abssystem.com/

A 15 liter-sized bag should be big enough to carry the things I mentioned - it's what I got.

Regarding the beeper, make sure you get a beeper like the one here (with the straps) - same reason as the bag - it could get ripped from your body.



However, I would NOT recommend getting an analog beeper. They're old, no one has them anymore. I know that a Swedish guy died last year on St. Anton because he had an analog beeper - no one could find him. Spend the extra cash. Also, the newer ones allow for multiple seeking. Mammut brand supports this functionality as well as others. But I would just get the most popular brand as it helps ease cross-training when traveling in groups.

When an avalanche happens, one person is supposed to search for the buried people. He can do this quickly, further finding the location of the body with the probe. He leaves the probe there as a marker for others to start digging here (assuming others arrive). With a newer model digital beeper, you can mark this location (buried person's beeper to be exact) as "found" and then move onto the next signal (other poor sole trapped in the snow).

All that having been said. I've seen an avalanche before and one of my friend's was killed in it. I watched the whole thing go down, it killed him and 3 other Canadians that day. I stood from above and watched it like a movie. I was the second one on the scene along with an Austrian guy. We pulled out a Canadian guy from 6 feet of snow, he lived. We then found his wife and 2 others in their party who died as well. I gave the Canadian woman CPR for 40 minutes while helicopters arrived. The beepers only helped to find dead people.

The moral of the story is, if you don't have an ABS bag on, but a beeper, your dead body will be found. Without an beeper, your body will be found in May with the snowmelt. And if you don't have a probe and shovel, you have no business being off-piste whatsoever. I saw people digging with their hands. Not really useful with some people buried 8 feet in the snow...

I’m glad to hear that you’re doing the course and show a need for such equipment. There are far too many people out there who think that this kind of a thing can’t happen to them. Also, I would not worry too much about the cost. It’s not only your life, but others as well. And unless you have all of the equipment that I mentioned, then you cannot save anyone. And they can’t save you.

Thanks everyone, useful info as usual. I misread the DAV course notes and the ABS rucksack is included in the price, which goes someway to explaining the 190+euro cost for the 3-4 days. If I get into this then I'll invest in some gear, but for now I think it's a good idea to rent from the DAV and get some experience. There's some interesting stuff about the ABS system's results here.

As you point out Bumpy skiing, like much in life, is a risky business but understanding the risks and taking steps to mitigate them is part of the fun for me. There's nothing fun about an avalanche, so taking steps to improve your chances should you be unlucky is just common sense. I've been 'off piste' following the sides of marked pistes many times and now want to take the plunge deeper into the wilderness.

quiet agree and bumpy's post is excellent in that regard. but remember the golden rules of the mountains be it skiing climbing or just general walking. "an increased feeling of safte, leads to a decreased acknowlegement of risk".

You do realise that if you want do plunge deeper into unmarked areas, your normal slope clothing won't do the job anymore as well? Functional multilayer clothing which is appropriate for walking and considerate climbing is also a must, otherwise backcountry tours become a pain in the arse.

@Bumpy, sorry to hear that you had those experiences, must have been terrifying. Great post.


This part I don't understand though. Surely analogue and digital beacons are completely the same in transmit mode - pulsing out a steady 457 khz signal? I understand that they differ when it comes to finding others, but not for actually being found.

ET, I think you're right about the newer (relative term) analog beepers - that they do transmit the same frequency as digital. But older beepers (also analog) used to use a 2.275 kHz frequency. These should be not be used alltogether now. When my Hausmeister told me of the Swedish accident, I just assumed that he meant th older 2.275kHz frequency analog beeper...

However, regarding the issue of analog vs digital, I would insist only using digital devices. Reason being is that the digitals are filled with all the new bells and whistles - the whole industry is moving in that direction. I'm not sure if you can find an analog beeper with such easy-to-usability, quick searching indicators and multiple burried parties. I just think that for these reasons the digital beepers are superior. New Mammut digital beeper seen below with search arrows:

I couldn't agree more. As much as I shouldn't diss my mates - they know in anycase - while snowboarding in Val last year, certain members of our crew insisted on going down closed pistes and off-piste despite the avalanche factor being 4/5 the whole week. They had all done the DAV course and all had the requisite beacon and shovel. Two people died that week in Val bringing the total at that stage for last year to a record 46. Too many people underestimate the mountains and only think about themselves and not the other people's lives they may be putting at risk. For those who can't afford the DAV course - it's no replacement - and would like to know a bit more, I find this website particularly helpful.

http://access.jibc.bc.ca/avalancheFirstResponse/course.htm

The Snow & Avalanche Awareness Camps in Austria are good, and the first one every year is free of charge. Last year the it was in Kühtai during the first weekend of December. Saturday afternoon is lectures and Sunday is out all day on and off piste with a guide.

These days I'm using a Pieps DSP which I find to be pretty good, particularly when finding multiple burials.

Thanks for the tip Bannockburn, the link to their site is http://www.saac.at/

Edit: After reading their site for a bit it seems like a great offer. Everything is free, even the lift ticked is sponsored. Naturally it's in everyone's interest that anyone going off piste knows a bit about what they're doing, but still this seems like a very generous offer.