Financial Times Deutschland: Ausländer sollen elektronisch überwacht werden


It will make us all more secure *cough*.

You know who will be making them, don't you.

I can sure guess.

BTW - I quit last week.

(ok, no papers have been signed yet, but I'm outta there!!! - Just in time for SiM to start )

Please take a big bag in on your last day. Then you can smuggle me out.

I'll be in on Monday planning escape routes.

Will this be for citizens of EU member states too?

Its a RFID chipped Passport, just like the US has started to issue. All EU countries will be implementing RFID readable passports within the next 3-5 years. It's nothing special...

Not a passport, DK - a replacement for or supplement to your Aufenthaltserlaubnis. Don't know if it is RFID either, but it is intended it will contain all your biometric data.

Incidentally, interesting things those RFID passports. They can be used as anti-American detonators for bombs. All in the name of your security.

Ah, just quickly glanced at the article, and saw the pic, of the RFID PP..
The issue date for these things isn't till 2008. Will they make all foreigners who already have an unlimited permit get the new one? Or will it be like the drivers license which doesn't need to be renewed, which is why older germans tend to have a huge A4 piece of paper from the 60's as their license. If it will be mandatory and retroactive for all foreigners, who's gonna pay for it? I can see new people who are issued permits to pay for the new permit, but I believe they will have a prob. of they force people to replace the older ones at their own costs seeing as they already paid for the older one.

Ah yes, I know who makes most of those RFID Passports, too. Dammit.

So what about us EU lot who do not need an Aufenthaltserlaubnis anymore?

Your EU Country will issue you a chipped PP the next time you renew..

Knew that already so nothing different then.

Then the Germany will add it to the "Good Auslander" DB
and perhaps write some info to the chip.

Not "will" but "might". UK, for example is issuing Biometric passports to "some" applications and renewals ("some people will receive a new biometric passport, but some customers will receive an existing digital passport"). No need for any Aufenthaltserlaubnis, -genehmigung or special card for EU-citizens anyway.

David Cameron has announced today that the ID card for Britain will be scrapped. I hate carrying my German Auslander pass, goes against my freedom instinct. I never show it as if you do you are treated like Sh*t. I always show my passport pretend i am a tourist then all of a sudden they speak English and treat me properly. strange is it not.

UK, started issueing Chipped PP's this year and will take 6-8 months according to them for the new PP's to work into the system, but it will prob. take longer. I'd figure that if your PP needs to be renewed after the middle of 2007 the chance of getting a chipped PP will be much greater.

According to British consulates website they have been issuing them since the end of march and you cannot apply for the old type since the beginning of march. I only know of one person who has renewed their passport this year and they got one of the new ones.
Biometric passports

What "Auslander pass"? You don't need one (any more)
The consuls and embassies are the first to introduce them on the basis that expatriates are more likely to need them sooner rather than later. Passports with chips issued in the UK are more piecemeal in their supply.

You need the Auslander where I am .

and what a long drawn out mess it was. a mate of mine worked in Germany and left with out de registering. he came back a few years later on a 3 year contract went in to register and they found out he had left the country with out checking out so to speak. Boy o boy did he get grief. You dont have to do this in uk why here. On my first 2 year stint in Germany I went in to de register ,because it was 3 weeks away before I left they would not do it and i had to call back as they can only do 2 weeks before you leave, How this country does anything is beyond me. Why did i come back. Company pays the rent and all utillity bills lost of add ons to my sal, a tax free lump sum on arrival and a tax free lump sum on leaving. Kept my house in Uk. The best dec. i made . the value has sky rocketed.

last time i checked out he gave me a sheet to hand in to the local authority in England. i told him i did not need it in the uk. He said ' you must how do THEY know where you are' tells you all you need to know about Germany.

You should have seen his face when i ripped it up. ammazed they let me back in.

If you are in Germany and hold an EU passport, then you don't, FACT (since last year). You can optionally apply for an Aufenthaltsbestätigung (a differnet paper), but there is no requirement to have or produce one in Germany.

That is not the case in Rhineland phaltz

Of course it is. It's Federal Law in effect since January 2005.

Maybe it's not the case there, but it certainly is in Rheinland Pfalz.

Smart ****
From Yorkshire then are we

Thank you! Not sure how you guessed where I came from, however. I'm usually so discrete...

unless you want to open a bank account, get a job, ..., in which case they may finally update their systems within the next decade to realise that having an EU passport means you're allowed to be here (which is, after all, all the bit of paper says)*.

Legally though, you don't need one.

I've recently opened a couple of new bank accounts and all was required was my passport. I do have a half an ounce allowance but I haven't been asked to show it for years.

No-one needs (or ever needed) an Aufenthaltserlaubnis to open a bank account, as you don't even need to live here to have an account. You do, however need to prove your identity and correspondance address to the satisfaction of the bank and it may be that an Aufenthaltserlaubnis would assist in this, but it's by no means a definitive document of identity.

I live in Rheinland Pfalz. I lost my Aufenthaltserlaubnis last year and decided to tell the authorities. They sent me an application form for an Freizugiwhatsitbescheinigung and asked for details like do I have a job, health insurance, money? (some questions they are not even allowed to ask an EU citizen). So I refused to fill in the form and send it back and have heard nowt since.

Of course they are allowed to ask those questions. The point of Freizügigkeitsrecht (right of free movement within the EU- § 2 Abs. 1 FreizügG/EU) is that you only have that right under EU law if you can indicate you have independant means of support and are not moving around to make social claims on different states. You don't need to answer the questions, of course, and you don't need the Aufenthaltsrechtsbescheinigung which you could get as a result.

You must live in a different Germany to me.

Opening a bank account needs every bit of information you can think of.

No it dosent..

A passport was all I needed. They were dwad chuffed when I deposited money at the same time.

I think we do. I still haven't found "Rhineland phaltz" on the map. I do, however, know the laws of the land and how to apply them.

i am affraid you dont. it differs from state to state and area to area.

I can only go by what actually happens not by what you think.

I'm afraid (count the "f"'s) I do. It's a federal application of a European Directive, (§ 2 Abs. 1 FreizügG/EU - check it yourself), active since 01.01.2005 and nothing to do with state, or area. In researching this, I checked the website for Bad-Kreuznach and see they still describe the earlier regulations. I spoke this afternoon with Herr Schlemmer at the Kreisverwaltung and he has agreed to update the website according to current legislation.

Come on Johnny Norfolk! You can't let that pass!

Don't stop now - great fun

RT

Ah. now you have found out whay actually happens.

Changing the web site will make no difference this lot here. They do it there way.

Can you just accept that what ever the law said that is not what happens. The states do what they want to do, this is not Britain. The Bunestag was formed out of the states and not the other way round as in austria and it makes all the difference.

Maybe if we just Ignore him, He'll go away...

Hes a Yorkshire man he wont go away

I don't think DK meant the Yorkshire man.

Actually, all you need to register as an employee is your passport or ID card and proof from your employer that you have a job. They are not entitled to ask you for anything else. Different regulations for other people who are not employed (see the Europa website).

As far as bank accounts go, when I first got one here in 2004, I had to show my passport, proof of my job and my Anmeldung to show I had an address and that was in Nordrhein Westfalen.

Maybe there is only one set of rules but it doesn't mean that everyone goes by them.

Perhaps, but don't confuse Your banks rules for FEDERAL or EU rules/laws. FEDERAL Regulations will beat State Regulations every time.
If your local Amt/state office doesn't want to follow FEDERAL regulations, either find the relavent Federal Rule/Law, print it out and show them
or contact someone higher up in the State Govt./Amt structure. If all else fails, contact the main/central Amt's in Berlin and have them set
you local straight.

That's not strictly true DK. As far as I know some areas (education is one I know of) are strictly "local" and can't at the moment be "trumped" by federal laws. Even areas you might think would be under national control, like the issue of German nationality, are effectively under local control, which is why Bavaria can drag its heels over dual nationality and why some states have their own "German-ness" test for people wanting to take on German nationality.

Yet another reason why this Countries Govt. is so F'ed up

B..b..but you're American! You're supposed to have this "the States' rights are inviolate and the Federal Guvmint is evil!" attitude.

Oh dear. Now my whole world view is in tatters.

I didn't say Germany's Govt. was the only F'ed up Govt. now did I..

Some info on 'Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung' (freedom of movement permit), mentioned here as well:
http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp...&story_id=26889

I consider myself being a EU citizen (also being from Yorkshire)...not sure if the same applies to those from Norfolk as they speak in a funny 'oo-ar' dialect.

Anybody heard anything further on Personal Ausweis fur Foreigners? It's been over 10 months now since the anouncement
and I'm still getting tired of having to haul my Passport to the Video store, Phone store and Post office...

They were supposed to be the same as the current German PersonalAusweis or some new form of Smartcard...