TZ blames "Ausländer" for German health crisis

Anyone have the misfortune to read the Munich TZ today?
Bin-picked mine on the U-Bahn cos there’s no way Id give those feckers my money.

Apparently it’s not the rich opting out the system, massive fraud by doctors, over supply of medical services or un-nescessary admin and advertising that is bringing the German health system to its knees. Oh no!

It’s the Ausländer!

Apparently we’re borrowing, lending, buying and stealing each others health cards and British and Irish workers are specifically mentioned.

Then come the calls for PIN numbers to use your health insurance card, demands for health insurance cards with photos on them that the Kassen themselves are delaying and for doctors practices to demand ID and do “Personenkontrolle� on the sick.

Any suggestion that a “One Kasse� system might ease this problem??
Any suggestion that it’s the nature of the system itself that leads people into “fraud� to get health care?
Any suggestion that access to health care should be a universal right?

You’ve just the one guess on that like!

didn't realise you fall for TZ headlines MonksTown...and TZ making reasonable suggestions... hmm.

TZ bastards - I wouldn't touch that rag with yours, MT.
*shudder*

Yes, the NHS is a stunning model of efficiency and equity.

woof.

yes, i'm ensuring that when we move back to britain, the package includes private health care. the nhs is fine for visits to the doctor etc, but as soon as it comes to anything more serious or my son, then i want it now and it better be good.

The funny thing is, for serious stuff like heart attacks or any of the dread diseases the NHS is usually pretty good. Private health insurance comes to the fore for sports related injuries or chronic complaints where you would normally expect to spend time on a waiting list.

How would anyone know? Until recently the total health spend in the UK as a proportion of GDP was 50% of the rest of Europe. All in all I'd say it did pretty well.

Edit: bluedave is right - if anything serious happens you're going to be treated by NHS staff in an NHS hospital using NHS equipment.

Not really. We have a good friend in Nottingham who had five massive heart-attacks, survived them all, and the NHS put him on a treadmill to determine if he could work again (he was a self-employed heating technician). He had another heart-attack right there on the treadmill, so they put him on the list for a heart transplant. And what happened when he turned 50? Right, he dropped down to the very bottom of another waiting list, this time for people who are too old to join the workforce. If they had got their act together he could have been working for the last five years instead of living off social aid.

The NHS has its faults, sure. Not least Labour's privatisation shovelling money into the pockets of their mates in private industry rather than health care, but that's another thread.

The fact is though that there are 2 ways you can go in socialised health care.
The fractionalised current German system or the unified British system.
Where on that scales you are is a matter for debate.

With the exception of the FDP, all the German parties want to move a certain way towards the british system.

That's the real story and debate to be had.
Not how a few cash in hand brickies are supposedly bringing the system to its knees.

Katrina's right, it's an arse wipe of a newspaper that's shat on us before.

Only used by auslanders funnily enough. Anyone with a job has proper health care - which is free with the job, or cost a few pence without. Unlike the fucked up German system where you pay a fortune every month, and still don't even get a private room. People talking in that sick german language also seriously hinders recovery. Schwabinger krankenhaus should be bombed.

Don sweetie, most of the UK population aren't on a whopping great big package and rely on the NHS.

And even those on the "fast track" rely, when the chips are down, as mentioned above, on the NHS as the private hospitals might well be good at ingrowing toe nails but pants for something serious.

Money hungry capitalist that I am *sarcasm*, I've never received better healthcare than I have here - privately insured.
The NHS is a piece of shite, even my dear old mum who worked for them for 20 years thinks the same. Although the concept is a most worthy one, healthcare available to all, it's just proved not to be workable.

Ultimately, I believe that people should have freedom of choice and thus a two tier system works fine for me.

Start a newspaper and tell your own story.
Surely if some foreigners are leeching off the system then it's part of the problem and deserves being brought to public attention ? Sure amn't offended if they catch a few of my crowd at it.

Hams, what the NHS achieves in outputs is amazing for the inputs.
The German system swallows huge inputs for less than brilliant outputs.

German spending on health is second only to the USA I believe which kind of proves that a lot of money going in doesn't mean decent universal health care for all.

Parnell, the media isn't a level playing field is it!
Alternative views are hard to get heard.

MonksTown - I can only go by personal experience... and I do know that once upon a time the NHS was brilliant, but due to mismanagement etc. etc. it's gone down the tubes - especially with regards to dental care.

I'm think that English and Irish members of the AOK, BRK etc probably tend to use the health services less than the locals who tend to run to the body mechanics at every twinge.

At least that's my opinion. (absolutely no basis for it I know, think of it as paddylogic if you will)

Fat chance the TZ will print a story about locals rushing to the doctor everytime a fart goes the wrong way.

FACT.

Anyway, back to NHS. Anyone that cannot afford private healthcare or does not have a decent enough job in the UK is probably a piece of worthless crap that does not really need healthcare, as their death would be a blessing on the country.

BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT!!!

As a Brit with many years of service working within the NHS, I find the German system very second rate. Accessing German health care is easy but the question remains – would I choose to? The answer is NO, not if I was really ill. The locals are so full of there own self importance; assuming we are scrabbling for help from the medical gods of Germany.

Rant over.

Typical German mentality here especially from the T.Z.when somerthing is failing in Germany it must be the Ausländer.Oh JA! The unemployment is the Auslander fault.I got up late because my Auslandische clock woke me up late.As to the sick rate.Well the auslander had a day off and i suffered more work through him so i am wery sick now.

POV from an Amerikaner: Pubic (sic) health care system here treats people like cows ... but, its a hell of a lot better than in the U.S. ... where you have to wait weeks to get an appt with your PCP (primary care provider ... who is totally controlled by the insurance co) only to get a referal to go to a specialist ... (wait weeks again), only to be told you need some diagnostic (xray, mri, sono etc) ... which requires another referral and wait (12 weeks for sono, month of mri etc) and round and round you go. On the other hand, we only paid $100/month for 2 people to SIGNA, which covers everything (optical, dental, body work) ... and has a $300 deductible for major stuff. Here, we EACH pay about 571 Euro/ month ... with no Optical or dental.

BTW, if my impressions are right, Germany will soon be falling to the same fate as the U.S. - complete and utter inundation by Auslanders. Germany birth rates are below replacement, while the auslanders keep pouring in and spawning like crazy. Not to be insulting of one's intel, but I speak of Auslanders/Foreigners as those who come to a country, and retain allegiance to their progenitor countries values/language/politics. Probably this trend will push the Germans, as it has with many Americans, to a more immigrant hostile stance.

So far though, we have been treated with no prejudice by anyone ... except our Irish neighbor's ugly little red-head son and his 'Atom-USA' mail-box stuffers. Funny tho, I'm Irish by heritage, and was as ugly and red-headed at that kid ( and probably a lot more delinquent )

Wow an even more hostile stance.It is a fact that whenever anything goes or is going wrong in this country then it all appears to come back on foreigners.Instead of looking in their own backyard.My German co workers are the only people that i have seen that can predict when they will be sick.Germany is a beautiful country and i seem to get on with the German people ok but there is always that underlying current of being biast when an ' Auslander ' is better than a German especially in the working enviroment