Utterly depressed in Munich - I need help!

I have lived here since last October. I go to Munchener Volkshochshule and I am finishing up on Grundstufe 4. I hate living here. Don'T get me wrong this could be a wonderful place to live, but I am absolutely miserable. I have all the freedom to do whatever I want to do but I can'T. I have no friends, I really I am not used to the people here no one seems to understand me I don'T know what their problems are. But I am here because my fiancee is from Munich and he is finishing up his ph.d and so for now I am just stuck here. I am so miserable. I am usually not such a loser. In my town in America (Blacksburg, VA) I always went out and had a good time, but here everytime I go out I am miserable , I hate the disco scene, I like to go to a bar and watch tv or play pool or darts and drink beer, and not some stupid beer that is so much better than that stuff they serve in America because it is Bavarian, it is special, no chemicals, nothing but flavor. Everything here is overpriced. I just can'T take living here anymore. I am sorry to be sorry unhappy and negative but right now it is all I feel and it totally consumes my mind thinking about all this stuff. Anyway my main thing today is that I have no friends, and it drives me crazy, I hate it. Yea I have people in my class but they also don'T speak german so it is difficult to communicate on a real level other than giggling or crying. In October is my wedding, which is supposed to be the happiest day of my life and no one from my family can make it, in August it will be a year since I told them the date, but no they are too busy too pregnant too many kids something came up for all my brothers and sisters and I have 7 of them. Most of my friends can not come because they are all in college and just can'T afford it. So as of right now I have one bridesmaids, who isn'T really even that good of friends with me, but she said she would come so I asked her to be a bridesmaid. I am so miserable. I desperately need friends. I am 26 years old I have interest in lots of stuff. I just need to get out and not be so lonely! Please don'T think I am a huge loser, I really am normally a fun person, but I just can'T take living in Munich anymore. It sucks and I am stuck here until at least my fiancee finishes his phd. So if you are really bored email me or something. This weekend is is my birthday and I have´to go to Italy for my fiancees work, but it wouldn'T matter anyway because I have no friends here. Sorry for being so negative. I really am normally a happy fun person.

I don't understand why you are posting this and repeatedly saying that you need to get out... Come on out then honey. Just look at the Toytown Meetups section. People are going out every night of the week, and newcomers are always welcome. Last night we were at Alter Simpl for Tues. drinks. Tonight there is Curry Night. Tomorrow I am sure someone will be going out. Friday night there is always the sneak preview at the English Cinema. ... next Wednesday the girls are having a Sex in the City night...

It may be daunting to walk up to a table of strangers. Just know that everyone else sitting at that TT table have done the same exact things a kazillion times.

Oh yeah, and before Joe kicks me, Jive dance classes every Thurs are very informal and friendly. .. . and there is the Americans in Munich meeting tonight at CAST at Giselastrasse.

It is absolutely impossible not to meet people, unless you stay home.

Hi Lil,
I thought that I'd put a link to Looking for REAL friends so that you see that you aren't alone and that other people do have similar experiences.
Maybe one of the regular Toytown events would be a place to start to meet people in a similar position to you, it is a bit scary to go and meet a load of people that you've met only on the internet for the first time but they/we are a friendly bunch and you are sure to find some conversation at least and maybe take things from there?
Welcome to toytowngermany.com anyway
Katrina

come out with us or move to somewhere that you do like

I physically try to avoid people from Toytown, and I bump into them.

You should go to meet they dont bite... much.

i'll give you a game of darts (as long as you promise not to beat me).

you will feel instantly better now that you've got that off your chest.
negativity is not necessarily a bad thing remember.
at least you are being honest and not deluding yourself that the world is always brilliant.

problem is as i see it from a totally neutral perspective, if and when you get out more, meet new people, friends..maybe even a new bloke..

and suddenly you end up ditching the fiancee and possibly leave munich which might cheer you up even more.

of course i could be wrong. was just rambling.

good luck.

PS I can't agree about the beer. The beer here is lovely. But you can buy other things to drink (I guess - I don't think I've tried them though ).

and if a meet is too scary, ask one of the regulars who is going to meet you for twenty mins elsewhere first - that way you can walk into the room with at least one person you know - just PM somebody who is going to an event u fancy and get their number - I'm sure somebody will oblige.

Katrina - ditto that on the beer! Kilians Irish Red was my favorite US beer, pre-Munich living (Lil96 will know it). I was considered a beer snob in college too! I went back and ordered one though, horrible horrible. Even Blue Moon, the official wheat beer of the US, is funny tasting. .. . that Yengling though, that is an OK replacement. I mean, we all drink cases of cheapo beer at frat parties, but by any American standard, a half liter of German beer for 3 euros IS cheap.

Oh my goodness, I have definitely been in Munich too long

yea that is no problem I could care less about walking up to strangers, I have been to the Muncih Dinner Party things, but I really didn'T think it was very fun. I don'T like to go to a group of people where I can'T speak there language. I really have tried I have gone to a lot of different bars and discos trying to find a place where I like the people and they like me. I just want to go to a bar where I can walk in sit down with a group of friends or walk up to strangers and start talking to them, I worked in a bar for 5 years so that sort of thing doesn'T scare me but I don't like it here because everyone is always in their private little group and they don'T want anyone else in their group. And when they realize I am American, they are like oh wow so cool, but if I explain I can'T speak German that good then they act as if I am a moron and no longer want to talk to me. ANd when they are nice to me they don'T understand what I am saying only what they picked up on Mtv or in Gymnasium. I just don'T get it. I am having a terribly hard time getting used to things here. But I really am sorry for being so miserable and pessimistic, I probably do just need someone to kick start me to get me to start moving!
Thanks!

Woah, so much text, so little time!

Any city is tough if you don't know the language and are not working so don't meet people. At least you have a man at home to do stuff with! Us singles have to think of things to do weeks ahead to get a group together..

Can't you delay your wedding? I don't know how big you're planning to make it but if it's a normal German "Standesamt" and then a restaurant, delay! No-one will mind if it means you are happy about it in the long term..

As for being lonely, there's no excuse hun... come out to play with us! My God, I haven't had a night in since... 10 days ago? Can't remember, my brained has been fried...

The people who meet up from this site are really friendly. For example tonight we're going for a curry in town, tomorrow there's a beer garden meet-up, Friday there's a nightclub night (but starting in a pub), and Saturday another group is meeting! Plus we have girls' night outs and Sex and the City nights every other wednesday, walks in the country, whatever...

So either join us, or post a thread saying "anyone wanna come out to play?" and you'll be amazed at how easy it is to meet people. We not clubbers, we also paly darts! And minigolf, and poker...

Don't worry about coming to the pub, come next Tuesday to the TT Tuesday pub meet-up and you'll see how friendly we are

And you're not the only stranger joining our "clique", we meet new people every week. I've only been meeting these guys for about 6 weeks and feel really comfortable with them.

(It's not like the MDC, I agree that is more tricky as it's so formal and if you sit next to a weirdo you're stuck... the first one I went to, a girl came in, sat down, ordered, ate, and left... without even saying hello! Very irritating... but apparently on Friday nights people are more relaxed and up for it)

Hi Lil96

I was in a similar position to you when I first moved over (also because of my boyfriend). I had no job, but could fortunately speak German. However, my interests aren't mainstream, and found it hard to find people who like the same things I do, and who I click with. People in Munich seem to me to be VERY cliquey in their own groups, and it's hard to get into their group unless you already know someone in it.
Now after 2 years I have found a couple of friends, but am still struggling to make my life how I like it, how it used to be, how it was in university surrounded by friends etc.

If you've finished with the Volkshochschule and are wondering what on earth to do with your time, don't panic :
A job would be a great solution to : (a) get your mind off things ( meet new people © earn cash (d) get work experience (e) maybe improve German..etcetc

There are a few places where you can apply without having to know any German (can anyone post the thread to it here?) and who knows, maybe you'll find a new best friend there.

Otherwise, just hang in there. Maybe to cheer you up, you could go visit your family before the wedding and spend time with your friends. But if your boyfriend is worth it, like mine, then it's worth sticking through the depressed moments, and the moments where you feel like you're going mad (maybe that's just me though...)

And if you go toa Toytown Meet, then let me know, and I'll come along. I haven't been to one yet either, and am quite shy ... but as you're not, maybe you can drag me up to people and start conversations with them!

Let me know,
Urban Angel

Yeungling -- really is good beer, but only out of the bottle, not sure why that is, but it is. Sorta along the lines of the Kruezberg Monastary keg I bought a couple of weeks back, just not as strong!

Blacksburg is a lot different from Munich (lived there, I know - where I am now reminds me of New River Valley in a lot of ways ). By that I mean being a small, rural community. Munich is full of opportunities, I still discover new things when I go on unplanned bike explorations around the "village".

Get out, just do it! Take advantage of the opportunity you have to explore it, plus there are so many coolio things to do in greater Bavaria as well (castles, Zugspitze, etc...) Munich is a great location for relatively short trips to Praque, Poland, Innsbrook, etc... I could go on and on... but I am sure others will have similiar advice.

hey lil, i'm going to the american stammtisch tonight at CAST, and you're welcome to join me. as far as i know, there'll only be one person there i've met before (aside from my husband and possibly a friend), and that was just last week.

if it makes you feel any better, i hated the place at one point too. it drove me nuts, particularly the beauracracy. believe it or not, that eventually goes away once you really get used to it. right now you're just in the middle of it all with school.

one important thing to always remember - everything always works out in the end.

well aren't you all a supportive bunch of positivists? helps eek out a little restoration of my faith in the human populous

@lil96

Now I am stuck -- What was the name of the club in downtown Blacksburg that always had great live bands like The Kind playing, aaagh, it's going to be one of those things I will think about for days now until I remember...

off to email friends who still have short or long term memories...

I guess most people here recognize and understand that living in a foreign country can be very stressful sometimes.

There's no magic answer for this, but just go out, meet people and build yourself a cricle of friends. Then in the long run it might even almost feel like home.

Urban Angel and Lil - I know that most of your unhappiness probably comes from culture shock, but it seems that some of it also comes from the out of university blues. University rocks. I mean, you always have thousands of diverse people around you that are young and probably similar in some way. Life is not like that, but I think the English-speaking community in Munich is about as close as it gets. Everyone has the native english speaking thing in common, and when conversation lags, we can all fall back to complaining :-)

thanks you guys. I will keep these things in mind, now I have to hurry to my German class!! I was too sad and depressed to go before, but now you guys started brightening up my day. Thanks I will get in with those of you who want to do stuff. I just feel so trapped here by not knowing the language, well my fiancee says I do speak very good and so does my teacher, but if I am so good, why don'T the people understand me when I try to talk to them?? Anyway thanks!

oh, and i was about to say something negative. i was just telling one of my american compatriots how we dislike whiners.

but lil, you are not the only one who has been or is in such a situation. i hope you've gotten your emotions off your chest and can see there is a light at the end of the tunnel. think positive! you're making one of the most important steps: learning German. keep it up! it will save you cause one day you'll be sick of us english speakers. and second, go to the stammtisch tonight. get out! do it now b4 you sink back into despair! the first step is the hardest.

as far as your wedding is concerned. i would postpone it. why hurry. don't take a bridesmaid out of lack of better choice. you will regret it! it is your special day.

p.s. most of the TTers don't speak any german or hardly any. they've managed somehow. keep on speaking german. don't give up.

Yeah come on out with us !! you've done the hard part and got that off your chest. We're a frienldy bunch - we don't bite (well most of us don't !! )

Lil,

If you want to know what we look like (or what a Toytown meet looks like),
just check out Keydeck or Sparty's websites. Bunch of pics there. Might give you an idea.

I was in Munich for two years before I really started going out. And after meeting the TTers, life has become A LOT easier and more fun. You don't know any of us but you have to take our word for it. You will feel welcome regardless of where you're from, what you do in life and how you look like. (Except if you're a werewolf or something, in which case we would like you to stay home at that time of the month).

Memo
"Pick a nose, any nose"

I think once you meet up with the TT´s your fiancé will have a hard time keeping you home. Something going on practically every night.

wow I thought my website had alot of pics, I think that person has me beat! I really need to go to class now. So ok I'll check to see if they are anymore messages when I get back! Once again thanks for helping to cheer me up and find stuff to do

Hi Lil96,

U are experiencing my same situation! Even if I just moved here (2 months) I still dont have friends! I came here because of a new job and I left the best city in germany to get here, BERLIN! I really loved that city and I had several friends over there but workwise I had to move on and even if I do miss the city and friends a lot I do think I made the right decision... or at least this is I want to think!

It took me a lot of time to make real friends in Berlin, but in the end I made it and I had wonderful friends that I will never forget! I miss them all!

So if u want to get together u can count on me! At least we are sharing the same situation!

Anyway Munich is also a very nice city, I just have to get used to it! It will take some time!

Talk to you soon!

Davide.

My God, do you think good friends grow on trees?!

you have to make a bit of an effort and give it time, I was lucky as I came here with 5 fab friends who I had studied with... but after 4 years here I realised my life was so insular with "the family", so tried TT out, and it so soooo easy to meet like-minded people here.

I think it helps to come to regular events like TT tuesday and GNO, then you get used to the same faces faster...

And if it helps, I for example am German but speak perfect English so if you feel you don't understand the people's behaviour here you can always ask someone like me about it. The cultures are very different and it might help if you understood why people act as they do. They don't mean to be impolite; they just act according to a different set of rules. I know how hard it is; I lived in Ireland for a while and was entirely miserable. But I didn't have the great opportunity that TT offers you.

We have the Sex and the City Night next Wednesday with people from all over the place, Cosmopolitans and only English spoken. Why don't you come along? The group is manageable, there will be some Americans etc, and the last time it was great fun without being too stressful - and we were all talking non stop. There were newbies there last week as well and they fit right in so don't be afraid.

A good way to meet Germans who speak good English would be to put a note up on the big noticeboard in Schellingstr.3 and to look for a language exchange partner - helps you improve your German if you want to and the other person to improve their English. Anybody doing English in college will already have tolerable English.

What are the things you would like to do? Post a thread with something specific, e.g. "on Wed afternoon I'd like to go to a swimming pool; where should I go and would someone like to come?" I guarantee you'll have loads of messages in no time, despite it being a Wed afternoon.

Last but not least, why don't you tell your fiance that you did him the favour of coming over here with him and stayed all that time and that in return you'd appreciate if he agreed to having the wedding in the U.S. That way your family would be there and you'd have your wedding somewhere you like. His friends might be more willing to travel; Germans generally are. And if necessary you could check the Internet for cheap flight suggestions as an extra incentive for his friends. Let's face it; he owes you that much!

Okay, everyone has been very supportive and given you a lot of great ideas. One question: Have you told your fiance how unhappy you are here? I don't mean that you should moan to him every day about how your life sucks, but does he even have a clue you are unhappy? Maybe he can suggest some things too, or support you more.

I didnt know that until the BBQ the other day, I honestly thought you were Irish

There you go

Conclusion...

When are we Meeting for Beers!!!

I suggest Saturday evening...

Location Must have a POOL table,

Not starting TOO early, as I tend to miss Sunday if I start Power drinking @ 20.00hrs

Anyone got any Ideas..?

Geoff

keydeck started a thread about Sat night as he'll be in town that Saturday; see TT Meet-ups. Will be a (fairly) quiet one, insofar as it won't involve dancing. Location has not been decided yet. I myself don't know many places to play pool, only Schelling Salon on the corner of Schellingstr. / Barerstr. maybe that would do? But it's not a very nice place. Alternatively, if the weather is nice, how about Max-Immanuel-beergarden?

@ grinner

a tip for you - try the schellingsalon, it got some of the best pool tables in schwabing, which are cared for regularly and you pay by the hour not the game; somebody should ring before hand and book a table or tables. staff are friendly, easy to reach, and unlike other pool halls its a relaxed mixed crowd (well actualy most are card playing old ausländer), but it's not a threatening atmosphere for ladies, ie they could go in alone without feeling scared.

EDIT:- badger was quicker...

I will just follow the Madding Crowd...

I dont want an early start, so I will catch up later..

TTFN

G

@ Badger... Whats ya done at your Knee?

Life here became ALOT easier once I started meeting some people from Toytown, honestly. Last night I went out and had a blast, with some people I had never met before- especially you joolybooly. Great fun night. Come out, drink too much, hurl abuse at the locals (Well, I will anyway ) and enjoy the beer.

@lil96

I can understand what your problem is, but I don't really seem get why you don't do anything about it. According to you, your big problem is the language, but there are so many American and other English speaking people here (i.e. people at TT) and as soon as you start meeting them, the language should not be a problem anymore.
I lived in Japan (and not in Tokyo) for four years and couldn't speak a lot more Japanese than being able to say Hello, Goodbye, Sorry etc., but I still got to know loads of people, because there was (just like in Munich) an international communtity there and naturally, these are the people that you become friends with, since they speak the same language. Of course, when I just walked up to some Japanese stranger, be it on the subway or in a bar, the chances of him or her being able to understand me were very low, but that is kind of what you would expect when you move somewhere, where you do not speak the local language.

So go out and meet some people. Your attitude will have to be a lot more positive than it is at the moment though. There are enough English speaking people here, so the language cannot be an excuse. Just look at all the events organised by TT. There must be something here you like. Even though, the place where you are from might be a lot different from here, I think that Munich is a place where everybody can find new friends, even though some local people might not be as "open" and tend to hang around more in little groups than elsewhere.

Dan

Hey hey where are all these places you guys meet up???

in munich city???

i heard a huge crowdoverly drunken sods one night at zoozies and myears were glued to the group standing at the bar... My friends were like "dont tellmeyou can uznderstand them" i waslike "yes and hes irish - shes from the states shes really pissedandsounds italian...etc etc" but i wasnt sure if it wasyou guys...

do you ever meet up at zoozies...???

To those who cannot understand not going out looking for friends;

depression is a certain state of mind which can have nihilistic qualities, take things out of perspective, and make you less open to new experiences, sort of 'lazy' in a certain way. of course it might not seem evident to you, it's so simple just to step outside - in a normal frame of mind. much harder when you're feeling down, as i'm sure most of us know.

just trying to keep a lighter note against aggressiveness towards lil for not 'trying hard enough'...

@ Grinner: I did explain about my knee but I don't seem to be allowed to - off topic I guess.
@ robbieinmunich: it does happen... We did go to Zoozies at some point in the not too distant past. loud Irish guy sounds like keydeck. You wanna run into people, look at the meet-ups. Usually there's an inflatable blue guitar involved to help newbies find us.
So, lil and all the other desperates: check out the thread for Sat in TT meet-ups. you need to look further down; it's not top of the page. That seems to be only regular events.

hi lil!
well yea ur definately not alone! i'm only in munich for the summer cuz i am doing an internship here (and my bf lives here..i usually just visit every other week for a few days)... but during the rest of the year i live in vienna where i study and i also get VERY depressed there even though i have some friends froms chool there... but still.. its really hard to meet people in town and at bars and stuff because of the language barrier... my german isnt too bad but i hate speaking it and dont do it unless i absolutley have to. anyway... i'm really surprised i haven't gotten sick of my bf yet this summer... i mean anything we do its together... or with his friends occasionally but i don't have any of my own friends here and it is starting to suck. the people at my internship (at a small environmental proctection agency) are pretty boring..and no one really interacts there at all its like independent work..so no one really knows anyone else. i met a few ppl in my german class and we planned on going out after class once but didn't work out.. and then i skipped a few levels and now the class i am in is filled with duds pretty much...
anyway...
i haven't done any of the Toytown events... mainly cuz i do feel weird walking up to a bunch of ppl who already know each other... theres a similar site for expats in vienna and i only went to one of their events but i made my friend come with me (we only went cuz there was gonna be free alkyhol there).. anyway it was for a Friends marathon but i didn't watch too much of it cuz i got so wasted really quickly.. never been so gone in my life... but eitherway i felt lame for getting so wasted when everyone else was sober and plus the ppl were pretty BORING so yea, that was the end of that.

but anyway.. i guess i am getting kinda used to not being surrounded by friends like at my 1st uni... there was always someone to hang out with...but thats one of the benefits to living on campus i guess.. anyway, yea i guess thats one of the reasons i'm nervous bout living here forever if i decide to do that... not being able to meet ppl as easily as back in the states.

ooops i rambled ... sorry
soo uhhh anyone wanna play mini golf?

It's not too hard to find something to do. And there really is something for all tastes.

A quick search reveals:

Dinner

Rollerblading

Movies

Clubbing

Barbecue

Beergarden

Gay and Lesbian

Dancing

That's just a small sample. There are other events happening all the time. There are sporting groups you can join...anything from Ultimate Frisbee to Aussie Rules - and it's all here. I wish that TT had existed when I first arrived in Munich. Take advantage of it and go to as many, or as few events as you want...

Somebody get Robbie a new keyboard!!!

Lil96: Don't Panic!

You say the "main thing today is I no friends" - and it also sounds like your biggest long-term complaint is that you're unsatisfied with the planning, and a bit fearful of your upcoming wedding. I think the advice from Badger and showem was pretty relevant - talk to your fiancé, and consider having the wedding in the U.S. - where you can more easily manage your family and friends joining you on that great day

For easy cameraderie, I'm betting the various Toytown events are pretty good. I've been to one, and everyone was pretty friendly (though the islanders were a bit taken aback when I introduced myself as 'Hi, I'm Randy'). One point though - don't give up trying to make friends with the locals. Especially if you're trying to make a life for yourself and your husband here. I have many fantastic German friends, and only a very select few I've finally broached into the lifelong friendship category. It's been said that it's hard and takes a long time to make friends with Germans, and that is both true and false (IMHO, of course). Casual friends are pretty easy to make; dinner invitations, visiting weekend trips, etc. But the real reward comes in gaining that lifelong dedication of friendship that is almost even ritualized here. That takes a long time - years, in my opinion (maybe Badger can speak about this). Totally worth it though; it's a richness that once gained, you'll not want to give up. Meetups of ex-pats can certainly help you get out and about; get active; and enjoy yourself - but keep in mind many people you meet there may be here for a limited time only; you'll need something more permanent if you're building a life in Germany.

I also like Hazza's post: choose an activity! Pick something you're interested in, where other people will be interested in the same thing. That should pick your interest up quite a bit. There are amateur actor's groups, improv nights, sports groups (The Hash Harriers are interesting!), rollerblading (good for flirting, but I hear there's a sporty aspect to this as well ), etc.

If you want to meet more interesting people at bars, try going to the Haidhausen and Sendling areas. Stay away from the shicky-micky Schwabing or center of town. This website has some reviews of bars by locations, which is pretty helpful. Of course, since you worked in a bar - you prolly know this, but chat up the bartenders wherever you go. It's the best way to integrate yourself into any locals there, have a good conversation, learn the gossip, and get a cheerleader with power working for you :^)

Actually mate, its not simple, its anything but. I was here just as long as Lil before I met some of the best friends I have ever had though TT. As she has said, she has no problems meeting people, in fact her log in suggests this is the first she has heard of TT.

@Lil96, looking forward to meeting you at an upcoming TT event.


I've offered him one already

On how to make friends:
Here's where cultures clash. It's true that it takes time to make friends here. It also takes courage and hard work. But it's worth it; they'll be your friends for life. The people you first mentioned, randy, that you meet with to go hiking etc - I'd probably classify them as acquaintances not friends. A friend is someone you share personal information with.
And that's what the key is: if you feel you're clicking with someone don't stay on the small talk for too long. Germans find that superficial and will soon lose interest because they get the impression that you're not a real person with real issues. (I KNOW you are. But many germans might not know.)
You have to let them in on your lives. That starts with one very simple thing: When they say, how're you, they mean it. They expect an answer beyond how're you. They want to know how you're really feeling. So if you're a bit depressed or have a headache they want to know. They wouldn't ask you otherwise. Germans are really that straightforward.
That's also true for the good old "I'll call you". In Ireland for example that's a very typical polite phrase. Germans mean it and expect you to mean it to. If you say it and then don't call or if you don't show up to an event after you said you would, you will not be forgiven easily - the german concept of politeness includes keeping your promises. That's how "I'll call you" will be considered.
In short: Germans don't waste time on politeness. They prefer to get down to business and not make anyone feel better just out of politeness. If you like someone you have to open up more quickly than you're used to and always mean what you say.
That's from a German point of view.
Sorry if I'm wasting some people's time with these basic observation; they might help newcomers, I hope.

Actually answers a couple of questions for me. I was puzzled last year when a couple of German friend never spoke to me much again

Your answer is still there, in the other thread where Grinner also asked. (Saturday evening drinks - 10th July 2004).

My apologies to the editors.