How long does Tengelmann need to transport milk?

Expats often complain about the fruit and veg in German supermarkets, but I've never had too much sympathy because such items are cheaper, fresher and tastier from markets or greengrocers. Dairy products, however, have always been a lynch-pin of German grocery stores, especially before the days they started selling cous-cous and other such fancies.

I often notice lorries from the local breweries making deliveries to the supermarkets and Getränkemärkte in town, but I've never seen a delivery from Weihenstephan (the dairy). I'm guessing that it all gets sent to some central distribution centre (Eching?) and redistributed from there. So far, so British. But why does it take so long to get the products redistributed? When I buy a bottle of milk from the shop at the Weihenstephan dairy, it's best before date is usually around 7 days ahead. When I buy one from Tengelmann, I'm lucky to get 3 or 4 days. On Saturday, the only bottled milk they had had a best before date of Sunday -- the very next day!

This is hardly a rant in favour of the British system (transporting an item 500 miles around the country and then delivering it to a supermarket just down the road from where it started its journey), but rather a plea that local produce be delivered locally. Why does it take Tengelmann nearly a week to transport a bottle of milk less than three kilometres?

I buy milk at Tengelmann and unless I am the last one on a Thurs-Sat evening shopper, I get milk with at least 7-10 days to expiry.

Christ have you seen a german cowshed? I dont think its the transport times you have to worry about. If its the taste your worried about, well tough, how do you expect milk to taste if it comes from cows chained up their whole lives, eating rotten grass and breathing in the fumes from their own shit all day? Just get the UHT stuff if your that worried about freshness, it lasts longer.

I buy Weihenstephan milk from EDEKA or Penny and it's usually a week to ten days to the sell buy date. Have you tried a different supermarket to see if it's the same?

tengelmann is not famous for its logisitics. the various shops are run by a local manager and depending on his/her management skills, deliveries (don't) take place. the tengelmann around the corner from my work is the best example of bad logistics and management. (having said that, the english supermarket logistics ie tescos is superior to any german one)
i usually buy berchtesgardner land and i like it. (i stopped buying weihnstephan products as they owned by müller now and müller doesn't take a stance against genetic modified foods.)

Depends on the frequency of deliveries too innit.
I live in central Munich and there is no storage room in the supermarket so there is a delivery of fresh food every day.

so can someone explain the difference between 49c milk and 90c milk please. thanks.

41c? What do I win?

a 49c carton of milk! congrats.

U do really believe that Weihenstephan provide every supermarket in Germany individually?

Apart of that, cowsheds in England do look the same like over here. Milkfarmers live of the product milk and the EU-subventions on milk. Because of these subventions the price the farmers receive per liter milk is about the same from Crete to the Shetlands.

This Tengelmann also has bottles of Berchtesgadener Land, which I usually end up buying because the best before date is a few days further away. Note I'm referring to glass bottles; you can also get Weih. milk in cartons, but it's pasteurised for longer to make it last longer, so doesn't taste as good.


I think I would actually prefer to piss on my cornflakes than drink UHT milk.

OK, maybe not.

Except HelterSkelter that there are obvious local differences within the EU.
How can a farm still function in Oberbayern with (say) 20 cows whereas they have all been driven to the all in the UK?

49c and 99c milk are different becasue of the branding.

Well for me local milk is local milk, except the UHT stuff stinks slightly less of cow shit than the normal. Neither really taste like milk though.


Taxpayer funded subsidys. You dont even need cows here to make a living farming, just get out and drive your tractor round in circles a few times per year, to make bavaria look rural, and reap the subsidys. Its all for show.

Ah, yes that's what I tend to buy, I don't use a lot of milk, so it's better that it lasts longer, I don't however buy UHT, that stuff is disgusting.

And whether or not the farmer gets a fair price for his product -- usually not.

as i drink about a litre or two a day, i've tried most of them and found that when drinking the 1.5% stuff, the cheapest is just as good as the most expensive and better than some of the middle-of-the-road brands (69c/79c), ie berchtesgadener.

it's milk, i drink it coz then my teeth are like titanium, my bones don't break and i think i'm addicted (if you can be lactose intolerant or allergic, is the opposite possible?).

ever since i saw the ad with milk makes me strong and this girl with good boobs saying it...i became addicted !

Hahahaha if the farmers here were offered the fair market value for the milk they sold, rather than getting huge bonuses at the taxpayers expense, they just wouldnt do it, they would sell their farms and become engineers or lawyers or government beurecrats, and we would be getting cheaper, better milk from countries whose economys are in a better position to engage in an efficient, non subsidised agricultural industry. I.E. Actual industrial farms, not just familys with large back yards and a few cows paid to sit there and make the countryside look nice.

Kza, you are talking out of your arse on this one.

The wholesale "market" price of milk is probably below what it actually costs to produce.
This is is driven by the supermarkets forcing the price down to sell milk as a loss leader.

I'm not a hug fan of the CAP by any means but without those subsidies farming would collapse.

OK, we could shift all of the EU's milk production to the deserted plains of Poland but tht wouldn't change much tbh.

How is that talking out my arse? You basically repeated what I said.. Sometimes inneficient industries SHOULD collapse. Would you like to see the government paying horse and carriage makers to lose money even though we have cars now, just so they dont have to be bothered finding new jobs? Or the textile industry in modern first world countries (where third world countries can bring a product to the market much cheaper).

No I already know we disagree on such matters. I see things in term of economic common sense, and you see preservation of loss-making industrys and jobs as being of the utmost importance regardless of who the costs of the losses are passed on to.

The most money in the milk sector is in the industriell use of th milk, since that's where the most milk flows to. The different prices are nothing but "branding". The actuall "milk" in the bottles and cartoons are often the totally same, something you can control by the productdata sign on every bottle, which states where the milk is coming from and where it was "bottled".

aha helterskelter, i've noticed that coding and wondered if i was in fact drinking weihenstephan (or similar) milk with a pikey name. now i know.

That code identifies the dairy but says nothing about the quality of the milk. There is nothing to stop a dairy selling different-quality milk under different branding.

@ Kza, where would we get milk from if we let the milk producing farmers all collapse?

The very problems the milk producing farmers face in that your beloved "free market" is actually nothing of the kind with a handful of large firms forcing the "market price" down below the cost of manufacture.

I think it is called a milkoholic and welcome to the club.
I just checked my Berchtesgadener milk that I bought on Friday and the expiry is the 17th. I would say that that milk loves me long time.

Well if it's from the same region, the same dairy, classifies as drinking milk (and not only industriell usage) and they get the same productdata ID, it's the same milk.

Weihenstephan was nearly broke 20 years ago. What did they do? Get a marketing team and change the product line. The idea to save the hole thing was to give the customer the feeling they buy something special, something exclusive... that's how they came up with the blue colour and the bit more elegant styling of their products. Their test bunny these days was their butter. Every single piece stamped and packed in blue. People back these days where going mad about it and didn't realize they were paying twice the price for the same product as before. The butter was the same, but suddenly it tasted like something very special...

Well I fill the fridge with a box of Aldi bio milk and it lasts ages. Longer than báck in Britain.

Now that my wife is stopping breastfeeding we will be buying milk direct from the farm in the next village soon. I already buy tasty eggs tghere. Bio of course.

Eww... I was almost sick then... I thought the Tea tasted funny the other day at your place

Never mind the taste, it simply isn't as good for you as bio milk - http://environment.guardian.co.uk/food/sto...1862942,00.html

i live in central munich too and i know that the tengelmann around the corner doesn't get milk every day.

No need for them ALL to collapse, but the agricultural business here is just not set up in a way that can survive without government assistance. One good approach would be to consolidate, larger farms buying the land of smaller farms and adopting modern methods of the business of agriculture. The land currently used to support dairy farming just has way too many people trying to be supported off it. One farmer should run the land that ten familys currently pretend to make a living off. However given the lifestyle that people here demand, and the large salarys that non-agricultural work provide here, I dont think farming will ever be as efficient or attractive here as it is elsewhere (without subsidies), even after reforming the agricultural industry here. Its the same as making clothes, or plastic toys, some countrys just have the demographics to do things much more effectivly than others. Most of the industrial milk powder could come from eastern europe say, or even new zealand, its probably still going to be cheaper once you include the transport costs, and the fresh stuff that needs to be delivered locally can be taken care of by larger farmers who dont need subsidies, they can offer it at the prices consumers demand it at because they dont have as many people per land area trying to make a living off it. Basic supply and demand economics really.

Conglomerate farms are not the answer. It is actually one of the biggest problems and if you don't think they are getting huge subsidies already, then you may want to do some research.

Oh am sure they do get subsidys, but they shouldnt, no business should. And no, they arent "the answer" either, the answer is to let different places specialise in the different things that they are most efficient at. I did suggest larger farms would be one way of being able to support a local agricultural industry by needing less subsidies though. I would be interested in why you think they are one of the biggest problems though. I know for a fact NZ wouldnt be able to engage in agricultural commerce if every farm was split into 50 little hobby farms each one trying to provide a whole family with a middle class first world lifestyle, like they do here, except perhaps for a few luxury niche export products.

Co-op farming is much better. Many farmers share the capital outlay, but retain the rights to their land and product. I come from a farming family and worked on the farm every summer growing up. It is the conglomerates that put the small farmers (not conglomerate hobby farmer like Sam Donaldson) out of business. Environmentally, they are the worst thing possible for the land. Production goes up, but quality and people are left in the dust.
Farmers know that they will never be rich, but they shouldn't be subsidied out of business by the likes of Sam Donaldson, Ted Turner or Scottie Pippen: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/EdFeuln..._of_the_country

Re: How long does Tengelmann need to transport milk?
The shortest possible distance.

I live in Berlin. We go to Viv Bio Frischemart now, or BioCompany, both chains of human-sized stores; the milk is bio, comes in dark glass liter-bottles, and costs 90 cents. I think it's really hard to argue with that price when Bionade is 59 cents, quite a bit smaller, and made up mostly of mineral water.

Also, the milk really tastes great! The UHT stuff you can keep. Sometimes I find a liter or two of the bio pasturized boxes, and since it lasts forever (thank the Japanese scientists), we keep it in the fridge in case we run out. We used to live in Friedrichshain, and the local BioCompany had refrigeration problems in the summer, or they run out in the winter; I think badly managed.

Milk in north america was shit. Later on, after I had already wisened up, and decided to buy milk again, I only bought Bio, when I was in the pacific northwest; lots of bio farmers. North America has followed the Industrial Agriculture idea forwarded by some of the forum topic posters, and has some of the highly toxic, poorest nutrient, worst tasting farm products in the world because of IA. And the FDA as a complete rotating door for IA, a sham front, not for people or principals. Don't believe their sham food pyramid or you'll end up just like north americans: the largest collection of toxic, obese people in the world by numbers!

Fruit and Veg, and fresh at that, and milk products untainted, from healthy happy animals, are what's needed. Closest link from the farmer to the person eating the food. If they have CFA here, I think it's a good idea. We also belong to a local food coop, and order some food once a week from a local farmer.

-s2s2

I'm babysitting a friend's flat (and cat) in the country right now and I get my milk from the farmer down the street. It's still warm when I get it. It has cream on top.
Jealous?

No, as cream makes you FAT !!! '*lol*

@ Small Town Boy:

Have you tried sending Tengelmann an e-mail?

Absolutely not! You've just made me retch!

So it turns out that it's not only the milk that takes a week or longer to be delivered, but in fact all their fresh food. Last week I bought two jars of yoghurt. The first, I later noticed, was only a few days off its best before date. Actually, I noticed that two days after its best before date, but it still tasted OK. Today I started the second jar, which had a best before date of 21.12, and the Bratapfel flavour had a distinct mould taste to it. There was some mould on the inside of the lid to confirm my suspicions. This supermarket is also the only one I know that has to regularly discount fresh produce that is about to expire. Why aren't they getting their supplies delivered fresh?

German supermarkets DO export discount fresh food that is about to expire.
I'm far too much of a "pikey" to go there but my ex gets reduced stuff from tengelmann a fair bit.

The cheaper supermarkets tends to do it less as they have a smaller range.
And its more likely to occur in larger stores outside inner Munich that have storage space.
My local PLUS has NO storage space so the fresh stuff comes daily.

Given that Tengelmann's central warehouse for the Munich region is is in Neufahrn, the journey times caN't be that long to Freising and any warehouse should be on FIFO, PARTICUALRY for fresh food.

I suspect the purchaser at that particular store has over ordered so is flogging off stuff just before the expiry date. Store staff DO check expiry dates and I have less expeirence of OUT of date stuff here compared to the UK.

If you get mould on a yoghurt on opening it before the expiry date complain like hell.
BUT, once its open its a bit iffy. I often have grated cheese that is the whole time in the fridge butgoes mould within the expiry date but they can claim that's my fridge.

You probably get the stuff out of the packet with your grubby mitts mate, thats the problem.

*as a poncy foodie note, don't bloody buy ready grated cheese. Ever. Just don't

I know ready grated cheese is shite, but its for work, where I even use instant mash.

Tengelmann have solved the problem of it taking so long for the milk to travel the two kilometres from diary to supermarket. They've stopped selling it altogether. Although offering milk from several different diaries (including Weihenstephan), they are all in plastic containers of varying shapes and sizes. The only milk in bottles comes from Berchtesgaden.

I asked the woman why they weren't selling milk in bottles from the local diary, and she mumbled something in Bavarian along the general lines of Tetra-Pak being the future and no-one wanting to buy it in bottles anymore. She didn't explain why, if the store was still going to stock one line of milk in bottles, it should be from a diary nearly 200 kilometres away, rather than from an equally large one just down the road that employs local people. But that's capitalism, I guess. And at least it's fresh - I have until Sunday to finish the bottle I bought today, a period of time unheard of when they were selling bottles of Weihenstephan milk. All most strange.

For better or for worse , that's the way it is going.
The supermarkets don't want the hassle of returns process.
the volume of milk they were selling this way was tiny compared to the drink containers they have to handle.

But why they have Berchetsgardener Land...?
I SUEPECT Weihenstephan might have left the glass bottle business itself, not the supermarkets choice.

Rememeber, Mr Stoiber privatised the dairy and it was bought by Mr Müller.
You know, the guy that get millions in subsidies for the net DESTRUCTION of jobs.
And gives money that he gets from selling milk to kanacken like us to...the NPD.

Weihenstephan milk = fascist milk.

No no, I can still buy Weihenstephan milk in bottle from the baker's or from a proper supermarket.

i am not the only one who is boycotting weihenstephan/müller products.

hm, well my uncle is a dairy farmer in North Germany and his cows aren't on chains and he doesn't just 'drive his tractors around a bit for show' nor does he live off subsidies. He works bloody hard, gets up at 4 every day and doesn't stop until way past most of our 'home-times' ...nor does he get 30 days holiday entitlement (I honestly can't remember the last time he had one.

Presumably, Tengelmann has the same supplier for the whole region, and doesn't contract with suppliers on a store-by-store basis...

Nope.
It might be interesting to find out which busineeses and events frequented by Toytowners use their products.