Advice on buying an apartment in Berlin

Hello,

I'm going to be staying in Berlin for two months starting in September and will be looking to buy a flat there. I have spent a lot of time there over the past year and have completely fallen in love with the place. As often as I know I will be there, I know having my own place will be a better option than paying rent each time I visit. I am also considering staying there permanently someday.

My question is, can anyone reccommend a good real estate agent, or is it just better to look at the listings online or in the paper? I have found some resources in this forum regarding rentals, but I'm looking to buy.

My boyfriend speaks German and helps me out with that, but when doing business like this, I would prefer it to be in English so nothing gets lost in translation. I AM trying to learn German, but I've got a LONG way to go before I can master it. If anyone has any reccommendations, let me know.

Thanks,
-Paula

Hi Paula,

From what I gather if you want to buy in Berlin people will fall over each other to get your business. I would trawl through some of the following sites to get an idea of whats out there

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/immobilien/?ftc=11501
http://immonet-bz.berlin1.de/
http://go.immonet.de/search.do?objecttype=...federalstate=11

If you have an idea of what you are looking for or you find something you like email the agency and ask if they have anyone who can assist you in English. You will find most will oblige

I would sit down with your partner who can give you the basic rundown of how these online sites work as they all operate on the same principles.

Good luck

Thanks so much for those links, I will check them out!

Do you think it is reasonable to be looking for a maximum price of 80K? I'm looking for a 2 room (1 bedroom and 1 living room) apartment, preferably in Prenzlauerberg or possibly Mitte (though I know Mitte may be more difficult to find something). I would consider Freidrichshain or Kruezberg but I'm not very familiar with those areas yet and I'm not sure if I would like them or not.

It's not always worth it to buy a flat though as you will still have to pay hausgeld every month and this can be about 200euro a month for a 2 room flat (depends on the owners of the building and whether everyone else in the building pays, which in berlin means probably not). You'd obviously have to pay this even if you werent in the flat, which would make it quite expensive if you're not permanently moving in soon.

Hi Laura,

IMHO if you are going to buy property in any capital city in the Western world it would have to be Berlin so I am not sure I agree with you that its not worth buying in Berlin. Are you sure the Hausgeld is so much? 200 Euro per month seems very steep. I though the rule of thumb was about 1 Euro/m². So a 60 m² apartment should cost aprox 60 Euro per month. This would go towards the depeciation of the building and general upkeep. There is then the side costs (Nebenkosten) which covers the utility costs which is the same if you buy or rent.

Please let me know if it is different in Berlin especially P-Berg.

Thanks

my friend has one room and a kitchen big enough to sit in and pays 175 a month. Some of the really tiny ones i was looking at were 150, just because nobody else in the building was paying so they kept putting it up to cover that. that was near hermannplatz. i'm sure there were will be lots cheaper than this, but the cheapest i saw was 100 a month for a studio.
but then the flat might go up in value so you would have made/saved money that way.

Howay!

Me and the missus might be moving to Berlin or Munich depending on who takes which job and we'd rather buy a property. I've been reading a lot of the entries and it seems like you can only get properties through an agent? Do owners not sell directly? Is there a law that says agents must be involved?

I also see that initial payments run about 30-40% of the purchase price. Does anyone have experience with using a non-German lender for better terms and rates?

Thanks in advance,
Bob

the ones i was looking at were mostly private through ads in zweite hand, not sure if this link will work but http://anzeigenmarkt.zweitehand.de/php/rub...3&ts=1156929946

OK. I've made the decision. I love Germany and particularly Berlin. I love the dynamicism. I love the culture (maybe I don't love Angela Merkal but hey-the-ho not keen on Blair anymore either). I want to live and work there. I'm thinking of remortgaging my (UK) house to buy property in Berlin (preferably, but love Bavaria too) with a view to renting out what I buy until I can find a job for myself and my partner (I'm a website developer/programmer/ICT Manager, my significant other a professional photographer link to her website) can find jobs there. We are off to Berlin in particular looking for property on two trips in October and November. Stop us!!! Otherwise advise us please; where are the best (cheapest) areas to search in for property, what are the pitfalls we should be wary of, any job agencies recommended etc. We need ground-floor accom with garden because we have four cats BTW. Any comments thankfully appreciated.

Topics merged by admin

PS Thanks Editor Bob for the threadmerge!

Hi!

I've copied and pasted below a response i made a couple of weeks back to a similar post. I've just bought a place in Berlin (Tiergarten) as an investment. I paid € 25 k for a 42 sq metre 1.5-Zimmer apartment that could do with a lick of paint and a new kitchen but is otherwise fine. You wouldn't get a garden shed in the UK for that!!

Will be happy to answer any questions. Good luck

I agree that the German property market is different from the UK but in the case of Berlin I cannot see how anyone can lose out based on current property prices. I researched thoroughly before committing and after a very steep learning curve i would be happy to offer a few tips for anyone considering doing it.

1. Average price is approx € 1,000 per square metre in reasonable areas i.e. not the top locations but also not "little Istanbul". This price is comparable to nice areas of Warsaw, Budapest, Bratislava and Prague. In Berlin wages are about triple what they are in comparable East European capitals. This anomaly will not last forever. Market forces will dictate that.

2. Prices are pretty much rock bottom at the moment. Between 1989 and 1994 prices went up by ca. 40% and they have now gone back to what they were pre-Wende. Yes there is a glut of housing which has driven down prices, but there is still demand for rental property in popular areas. I would not buy anywhere in Lichtenberg or Hoeheschonhausen in a million years but if you stay in the central or western districts there is demand there.

3. Sooner or later prices will go up. Germans are negative about investing in property because they have seen their economy go up shit creek over the past few years. Would your average punter living in SE England have advocated investing in property in 1993. Probably not. But if he had have done he would've been laughing all the way to the bank right now.

4. Unemployment and lack of demand from the domestic market will not completely dictate property prices. Many large companies and the city council are selling blocks of apartments to foreign investors and funds. This will increase once the property boom in Eastern Europe comes to an end. Coupled with this, where else in Western Europe apart from France is property still affordable to your average joe? Germany (and Berlin in particular) is a unique case. It is not reliant on good weather and Easyjet flights to stimulate property investment from foreigners.

5. In some areas of Berlin it is cheaper to buy property than it is to build somewhere from scratch. This goes to prove that the price of housing cannot fall any further.

ps.
Sorry forgot to mention the Hausgeld on my place is € 166 per month but my tenant pays most of that in his Warmmiete.

This is great info, thank you. I am now in Berlin and have started my search for a flat.
The only difference for me is that I'm not looking to rent it out to anyone at this time. I want to have it for myself, for when I visit here, which is often. (and of course the possibility of living here permanently later on). I'm finding prices to be pretty high in Prenz-berg. I'm curious on your opinion of Kreuzberg or Friedrichshain. I haven't explored those areas yet and I don't know what they are like. Also, it seems unusual for a person to want to buy a flat for his/herself. Either people rent or buy as an investment. Do you think my situation will be difficult because of this?

Probably best off asking a local about which areas are best to live in because i am English born & bred and have never lived in Berlin. But from a capital growth / popularity point of view I think Tiergarten and Friedrichshain are both good bets. Both very central...Friedrichshain is becoming quite trendy in an alternative sort of way. Tiergarten is right next to the new Hauptbahnhof and loads of government ministries so housing is in demand there. Some areas are rapidly gentrifying as a result of this redevelopment of the area. Kreuzberg isn't a bad bet but do your homework because some parts are less desirable. Can't see you making much money on anywhere in Prenzl' Berg because the area is already very trendy and gentrified (also read expensive). Treptow is also a lovely area, still quite central, clean and cheap.

Even though i am an investor rather than a holiday home buyer i still think the same criteria apply. When i was looking i was thinking to myself all the time "could I live in this area / would my mates want to come here on holiday?". Plus when you are not there yourself you can make a bit on the side by letting it out for long weekends to friends and family, which is another reason why you would want somewhere in a good, reasonably central but not expensive area.

One last point - there are rundown and dodgy areas of Berlin but nowhere that is as dangerous as some of the ghettoes in UK cities.

Well, I've looked at 6 different apartments in 3 different buildings over this past week and have narrowed it down to one that I am very interested in. Question is, should I wait and see if I find something else? I'm afraid if I don't decide soon, someone will take this one out from under me and then I have to start all over. Is a week too short to make a decision? The one I like is in a very nice location in Prenzl-berg and the building and apartments are fully renovated. the inside of the apartment is brand new and all the finishings (floors, kitchen etc) are good quality, there is adequate sunlight during the afternoon, and even though it is just one room, it is bigger than the other 1 room apartments I've looked at. It also has a terrace. I'm going to look at it again today but he's also showing it to someone else so I'm getting nervous. What should I do?

Hello, I stumbled here because I am in Berlin in January 07 and i will settle there and look for a small flaty to buy. last time I was in berlin I had trouble finding properties for sale. I am wondering if any of you have advice to give... is it best to leave it all till I am there, or should I start right now doing some reserach (it is almost january!), if you have any good contacts that i could relay on, i would appreciate those aas well!

Thanks!

riccardo

Some excellent advice here, i run a company that advises clients looking to buy in Berlin, we charge a fee to search and locate the best property for your budget sort finance etc, but it's all something you can do yourself with a little time and good planning, my tips ARE:

1) and this is the golden rule IN bERLIN, get finance first, then start to look for an apartment, if you do it the other way around your dream apartment will be gone as somone with finance in place or a cash buyer will snap it up, if you are a cash buyer fine, no prob.

2) once you have finance set out your wish list ie size location facilities etc, on location think about re sale or rental, what is cool to you may not be to others.

3) set aside time to view apartments during the day, that will give you a head start over many people.

4) take care over areas, safe potential hot spots in the west side I think will be Tiergarten, my tip for the West area with most potential is Bellevue, to the east PL B very good but will it follow through, who knows, my tip for most potential in berlin is Schlesisches Tor going into town, both sides of river but south side has some great buildings, anything on river in that area will prob double in value in next 5 years or so, think about ir on the river and very close to airport, so brits will pay a fortune for a weekend pad in a few years, and when tegel closes down, where they all going to fly into on a friday night???

5) set a budget as I see you have done and 100% stick to it, it's easy in a rising market to get carried away, don't do it, it's like drinking and driving a little over the limit and you are in big s**t

6) work out your running costs, don't assume, find out, if the apartment is for sale somone must be paying the bills you will have to so get the agent to give you the information.

7) go for it, you might pay less if you were renting but if you move out at anypoint then in 20 or so years time the rent somone pays you will be your pension, and you will own the property outright. whilst other in 20 years time will still be paying rent saying yeh was cheaper this was, and in 40 years time they will be saying the same thing...

8) good luck, and whatever you do don't give up searching for your dream property, it's out there..

John

Some excellent posts on here. I've just come back from a trip to Berlin to further my research on the property market there, with a view to investing in an apartment block. I must say that it didn't go entirely as expected. I contacted a number of agents out there but most seemed uninterested in my business; some didn't even bother responding to enquiries. I am of the impression that it is a sellers market - at least for apartment blocks. I am still planning to purchase and have the finance in place. My question is whether anyone can recommend a good agent?

I agree with previous posts re location being key – I am only looking at central established areas such as Charlottenburg, Mitte, Tiergarten etc… had a look at a place in Kreuzberg but the area that I looked at was very run-down – that said there seemed to be some good pockets in Kreuzberg nearer the river.

I am considering two investment scenarios 1) buy with tenants for long-term (10 year + for lower tax liability) capital gain or 2) buy building in need of renovation, develop and then sell-on individual units - Does anybody have an opinions / advice? Also if I were to go for the 2nd option, as a UK resident, am I liable for both German and UK tax or are there ways around this? If anyone can recommend a company that can help purchase and manage building work that would also be really useful.

There is a thread under another topic that has some info that might be helpful as well. go here:

Buying Berlin property - local knowledge required

I also described my own experience in purchasing an apartment which I did in October this year.

Does anyone know how to find out which buildings are going to be redeveloped so one can buy with tax breaks?

We live in Prenzlauer Berg and always find out about a building too late, after the renovation construction starts.

Is there some sort of list or does one just stumble upon them? I know of a couple of real estate offices that do some this work (came across them from their ads in immobilienscout24.de for other properties) but it is like pulling teeth to get some info from them. No call backs etc.

We have been really frustrated by the market and I was hoping there was an easier way so if anyone has experience in this, I'd love to hear anything.

Hi,

I am visitng Berlin in the next two weeks with a view to buying a house/flat big enough for three people and two cats. I have sold my house in UK and having spent most of my holidays in or near Germany, I thought this country would be an interesting place to live for a few years. I like Munich buy I am not sure that my budget of 400,000 Euros would bring me much value.

To get the most out of my Berlin visit, I wondered whether anyone could offer me some advice as to the following:

1. The areas of berlin which are reasonably quiet, not too far out, leafy and clean which might be nice to buy a property with my budget.
2. The name of an local Agent who might be able to assist me (my German is poor) and who doesn't just specialise in investments flats.
3. Any other advce that might assist me.

Thanks
Renzo

Topics merged by admin

Have you looked at this, at least as a start: (Berlin) Recommended residential city districts?

If you want leafy in that price range you could look into Friedenau the areas near Perelsplatz or RudensheimerPlatz are both really lovely, quiet, old buildings and big trees. It's hooked up with the U3 & U9 and S-bahn and just a 10 minute subway ride from Rudensheimer to the Ku'damm. Parking is tough and the streets are really narrow which add to the charm but are a pain, opposing cars can't pass each other without one pulling to the side. It is more of an old style german area, not so trendy and you're more of an outsider as a foreigner than in some other neighborhoods. Rudensheimer Platz though has a great park with a childrens playground on one end and a lovely beer garden on the other. We moved from there to P'berg, we feel more accepted here overall but it's more expensive and not quite as lovely.

Re agents, I was under the impression that there are no "buyer's agents" here - am I wrong? I don't think you'll find an agent who can show you all the stuff on the market because I don't think there is a Multiple Listing Service like we use in USA nor a split commission situation, I think you have to contact each agent individually who is selling a property that you are interested in and ask them to send an "expose" to get the exact address - but I'm not 100% sure so someone can correct me on that.

I think the best way to search is to look on www.immobilienscout24.de, I think agents list most of their stuff for sale on it so it acts like a Multiple Listings Service. It's in german but pretty easy to navigate - assuming that you don't know any german, to look for apartments for sale, under WOHNEN click on the subheading "Wohnung Kaufen" then select "Berlin" and so on. The rest is pretty self-explanatory. Best of luck.

I don't agree with whoever said that Prenzlauer Berg is expensive. I've been looking at apartment prices and it's STILL way cheaper than Victoria/Vancouver (Canada.) Prices are still low here in relation to everywhere else and still have a lot of potential to rise a lot, ESPECIALLY since it's such a desirable neighbourhood.

Everyone tells me that Prenzlauer Berg is expensive.

Hey thanks for all the great info everyone has put up here - just one thing that I have been researching and haven't found an answer for - does anyone know what "provisonsfrei" mean - the legal terminology - is it like a cavet or something? (a condition to the sale of the property)

Ya it is if you're comparing it to Neukolln...

Here's what I think about buying apartments in Berlin: getting advice here sucks. Everyone has a different idea about what is best. I personally see Mitte and southern P-Berg as the best investments because despite whatever everyone says about them being expensive, they are STILL cheaper there than in the rest of the western world, and as the literal center of the city it has the most potential for business growth. HOWEVER you may want to live somewhere more residential and in that case you have so many options and everyone has a different idea of what is good, and if you haven't spent any time here at all it's pretty useless to you. For example I HATED living in Kreuzberg with a passion, but others love it. Some people really love the atmosphere of Wilmersdorf but others find it stuffy, while some would prefer to live in one of the outer districts of the city.
That's my 2 cents. My advice is to move to a short term rental for a couple of months before you buy and get a feel for the city if you are wanting to move and relocate here. If you are buying purely for a business investment, you have to look into which part of the city has the most chance for economic growth.

Provision is commission...it means that there is no commission.

If you don't know what provisionsfrei means, then I reckon you really need to get someone who speaks fluent German, probably a lawyer, to look over your stuff before you even think about buying..

Is it acceptable to haggle on your purchase - or is this a no-no in Germany? Is there a website that private sellers advertise on, so one can avoid going through an agent? Thanks in advance...

@mendyh


split commission is possible on a case-to-case situation
but in general what you said is right.

the german real estate market is object/property driven due to the fact that by law german brokers can only charge you a commission by success =e.g. renting a flat or selling a house to you.

I was wondering about those points too - I have seen houses up for sale for around 6 months so wondered if the price would be negotiatable to attract a buyer.

Also can anyone help with this statement that I read in some housing details today?
"Der Erbbauzins beläuft sich zur Zeit auf € 6.385,52 p. a."
Does this mean that an annual ground rent is payable? This was on a house for sale, so it seemed odd. But is this normal in Germany - or have I completely misunderstood that statement?!

Hi Callie,

First point - Negotiate if you want to. If you think you can, then go ahead and try to get a better price. Reactions can vary, but I'm not aware of it being excluded from the normal purchase process.

Second point - On the ground rent issue, it looks like the house for sale is built on a site that has separate ownership than the house. If that is the case, you will have to pay the ground rent. If you entertain this kind of a purchase, be sure to get someone (capable) to look through all the documents and be sure that you are okay with the terms of the agreement concerning the expiration of the ground lease. You have to be aware of the compensation flowing back to the owner of the building when they have to hand back the property (if there is any), and also special clauses governing renewing the lease, among other things. Myself, I would stay away from any property subject to ground rent - but that's just an opinion...

Hope this helps - and good luck!

this is comparable to the US-System known as leasehold.

Normal terms: 99years
but if you buy a used house this period is for sure (much) shorter.

advantage: you don't have to buy/finance the land.

normally the "renter" is a public authority (like the town of munich) or in most cases the church or one of its subsidaries.

actually I am not sure what happens after the 99 years because I am a "urban" Berlin based realtor, and in the big cities this type of contract is very rare.
In 10 years in biz, I have never done it. But I will check and post my insights here. Just give me a few days (and don't bother to remind me ;-))

thanks for your replies Newfoundlander and Akorte.
Newfoundlander, I agree it certainly isn't what we want. Our plans are to pay cash for somewhere with the capital from our house here, so getting stuck with a ground rent to pay is not at all what we'd want.
Akorte, thanks, look forward to hearing what you find. I have actually noticed this on some new build properties for sale also - and like you say, financed by the Church or city. I assume if its not stated in the for sale details then there is no such applicable agreement and its just standard purchase, ie house and land included in for sale price.

I am looking to buy property in Berlin for Investment purpouses. Does anyone know if it easy to find lodgers and if there is a good return in doing so.
Is it also better to purchase an apartment or house in this case.

Thanks

Hi , lots of useful information here . I just posted on another section of the site and then found this section. I'm looking to buy a property in Berlin for investment as prices really seem rock bottom right now.
What are the up and coming locations that are becoming trendy/are likely to give good rents?

Does any one know any good websites to read up on rental law? What about any agents that specialise in renting out properties as I hear that being a landlord in Germany can be tough. Given that I live in London I really want to continue visiting Berlin for pleasure and not have to be on the phone trying to find a plumber!

I'd very much appreciate any feedback from anyone who has already gone through the process of buying a property for investment purposes in Berlin, what reading do you recommend? What are all the costs involved in renting out a flat, what ongoing costs does that landlord pay (e.g local taxes)/ what can be passed on to the tenant etc etc

I've seen a couple of websites that are offering properties that 'guarantee' 10 year rental returns of 5% and costs covered. It all seems a bit to good to be true so any advice on pitfalls would be very much appreciated

Chickenmadras how's your rental going? Orangerabbit, did you end up buying in Berlin?

im looking for advice on buying a flat in Berlin, having visited the city last weekend to get an idea of the certain areas of interest, id welcome some feedback from local people on good/bad areas and where are all the agents, couldn't see any when working around, so whats the best way of searching for property. iv seen the various companies who offer the all in package i.e buying with 10yr tenent let and all maintenance costs included, but did not like the properties they had on office, i would like to check out the normal way of buying in Germany and what this means for non-residents, all advice welcome, but id like to search out like minded people who have done just this.

regards
buzz

Topics merged by admin

Here may be a good place to start. Otherwise the Saturday papers have the property sections in them.

Lots of great advice here, thanks. I live in Manchester at the moment, having spent a year in Trier as a student about 8 years ago. Since then, I've been going to Berlin at least once a year on holiday and just got back yesterday. I now have my heart set on buying a place with a couple of friends, mainly so we can go out there more often, but also as a bit of an investment gamble. I've just started researching today, and this forum seems a great place to start. But before I get carried away, can anyone answer a couple of questions?

1. What do you think we could get for £25,000? Is that budget too low to bother? (some places seem too good to be true, but then they are in areas that seem quite far out)
2. Roughly how much do utilities, like electricity, water, etc cost? Is there an equivalent to council tax? A list of expenditure would be great just to get ball park figures.
3. The main idea is to use it ourselves and rent to friends and family now and then. If we decided to rent to travelers, is it possible to get agents to look after it for you?

Lots of research to be getting on with. Keep the great advice coming!

If you are planning to buy an apartment in Berlin which needs work doing on it, my company organises the renovation and decoration of apartments in Berlin on any scale. We can take responsibility for everything if necessary and assume comprehensive liability for any damages. If you're not living in Berlin, we document the work carried out on photos, so you will be able to follow the progress of the renovation. I'm a British citizen, so communication problems shouldn't occur. Here is our website:

renovate and decorate