My Aufenthaltsgenehmigung is expired

My Aufenthaltsgenehmigung is expired and I haven't gotten around to getting my brand new Neiderlassungserlaubnis sorted out yet. I realize that's a small problem- but do you suppose I could get in trouble if I, say, left the country and then tried to get back in with an expired visa thingy?

What nationality are you? Are you married to a German?

You are American right? I think that if you leave without renewing your visa, then when you come back you would revert back to tourist status (3 months, no visa but you can't work).

edit:... looks like you're a US citizen. Is probably the case that you'd revert to a "3-monther".

You'll be granted passage regardless of your visa status when you come back, but if you're worried you can go down to the KVR and they'll issue you a temporary one right away.. I did that last year. They just give you a print out with the information about your visa and sign it, then you just bring that along.

hmmm crap. Ok. Yeah, I'm American, married to a German. I had my Aufenthaltsgenehmigung for 3 years and so forgot to renew it on time, then I just got lazy/didn't have time/etc and never got around to renewing it.

@MoiLV- Thanks. I've had temporary ones issued before- but always done while they were processing the new one- never had one expire on me.

I called the service desk at the Ausländerwesen and the guy was really nice and helpful, so I think I'll be fine.

You can check out this site. Seems US citizens don't need any visa to enter the coutnry, so you'll be OK to return...especially since you're married to a German anyway...

If you are living here permanently and have your Wohnung angemeldet, but you don't have a valid Aufenthaltsgenehmigung then you are living here illegally. You can't rely on the tourist 3-monther, because you are clearly no tourist with intention to leave following seeing the sights. The KVR/Police used to be pretty strict on this. If you were caught without a valid Aufenthaltsgenehmigung there were hefty fines, but nowadays they are a little softer, a) if you made an honest mistake and seek to rectify it as soon as you spot it, and b ) if your Genehmigung expired only recently.

If you get thrown in jail, Id recommend you rip the sleeves off your shirt. It would be better if you had a denim jacket. That looks tough. Then Id suggest slicking your hair back, really, really tight. That way no one can pull on your hair when you go to beat them down.

ps: same thing happened to someone i knew in frankfurt, nothing happened to her as far as I recall. have a good trip.

-- sigh --

How long ago did it expire? Mine ran out once and I didn´t renew it for about a year. I was told that I would have to pay a fine, until I explained that I had been travelling back and forth between England and Germany a lot.

Get it done. At worst a small fine (assuming it's only been a few months), at best nothing will happen.

Although it might not be a problem travelling on it to countries where they don't check it, Austria for example, I wouldn't recommend letting the issue slide.

Ok, it's been expired for not quite 2 months. Quite honestly, I didn't think about it for a long time, then the expiration date snuck up on me and have been meaning to go in and get it taken care of for a few weeks now. However, I find it a seriously major pain the ass to go down to a place that's only open at best a few hours a day only to deal with an ill-tempered Beamter and fill out pages upon pages of forms and then have them yell at me because I don't have all the necessary documents with official stamps and seals. Yes, I'm just being lazy and whiny- but I just dread doing stuff like this. Anyway, Friday's doomsday. I'll go in at 7 when it opens, have my grandparents babysit the kid and hopefully have it all taken care of within a couple of hours.

I once lived in Germany an entire year without a valid visa. I didn't realize I needed one and nobody organizing my exchange program bothered to mention it to me either.

YL6- I very much appreciate your extensive knowlege on a variety of subjects. The information you offer is always valuable. However, every time you post on my threads you make me sound like a horrendous criminal. It freaks me out.

jml- Should I be sentence to do some hard time, I'm going to go for the Hinter Gittern prison bitch look.

Have a friend of mine that goes to the KVR---has a service, and he does not charge a fortune. Just in case you really don't want to go...hopefully he is not on vaca...PM is interested A

They would be more concerned about you working without a valid residence permit. It happened to me once, our secretary forgot to update our permits (this was back when there was separate residence and work permits) and it cost the company around 5000 for each of us kiwis that worked there (5 of us) , and cost us individually each 500 euros (of which the company refunded us since it wasnt our fault).

It goes through in the taxes etc, so if you have been working through those 2 months you might be getting a fine in the mail. Otherwise you can possibly stay off the radar.

EDIT: Actually those numbers were most likely Deutschmarks.

right. Thanks for the offer, Annie, but I think it'll be easier to do it myself.

So are you going for the loose shirt or the butch overall look ?

Not sure yet. Might go for a look like this.

Just make sure to flex your arm every now and then in case the circulation gets cut off.

Yes, good point, Yeti. I have the feeling isometic exercises will be a vital part of my prison workouts considering the restircted space of a prison cell.

Well, JennyL, TT will miss you if you get locked up, I understand you are very restricted online!

restricted internet use?! Noooooooo. Give me liberty or give me death!! PS- Thanks, Carm.

We can keep your spirits up, even if they lock you... just go online...

{You can still do your home-based business from the cell, I am sure... it will be no problem... you just need a good internet connection - they will help you out with their "discipline services" there... in case you felt lazy or anything... and after that, there will be nothing else in the way of your success in entrepreneurship!
Looking at the positive side, always... }

Back in 1981, I was living in Germany with a valid 5-year "Aufenthaltserlaubnis", and went off on a holiday to Turkey and Greece. At that time the Aufenthaltserlaubnis was a separate document, not a stamp in the passport, and I reckoned I didn't need to take it with me on vacation, as I would have no trouble entering Germany again with a British passport. However... on my return to Munich, the passport control officials wouldn't let me back in. I had a stamp in my passport from a previous Aufenthaltserlaubnis which had since expired, and they needed to see some documentation that I was still entitled to residence in Germany. When I asked how they knew I was still resident in Germany, they pointed out that if I had ceased to be resident in Germany, I would of course (huh?!) have gone to the Einwohnermeldeamt and deregistered, and this would have been indicated by another stamp in my passport. In the end it was all sorted out, they checked their computer records and found that I did have a valid residence permit, and I was allowed to re-enter Germany. But I don't know what they would have done with me if I hadn't had a valid permit.

I got my unlimited residence permit in 2001, and it still is a sepereate document, which I have stapled into my passport so that I don´t lose it.

That's odd- both my initial 3 year and my permanent residence permit were put into my passport as big "stickers" with an official stamp- definitely not a separate document!

Different rules for different countries. Uncle Nick has a British pass, and they being EU have a whole different set of rules as us NON- Eu peeps!

Feel free to lose it at leisure. It's no longer needed.

Aha- that makes sense then!

I thought you were British? You don't need any of this shit!

But he did in 2001...

Just a quick update: I went in to the Landratsamt for Landkreis München, fully expecting to be arrested, deported, fined or similar. They didn't really seem to care one way or the other actually. Got my paperwork turned in, they gave me a temporary Aufenthaltsgenehmigung for 3-months while they're processing my Niederlassungserlaubnis (or unbefristete Aufenthaltsgenehmigung- depending on which Beamter you talk to). Easy Peasy. But thanks all for the responses.

Quick note to anyone living in Landkreis München, not directly in Munich-- don't go to the KVR, you need to go to the Landratsamt München, Mariahilfplatz 17. I got confused and wasted a few hours at the KVR before they pointed out I was in the wrong place.

glad you weren't deported , we haven't even gone out for a drink yet!!

Tell me about it. Thanks, hw.

Bit late in the day on this one, but thought I'd chip in to reassure any other illegal aliens: don't lose sleep over expired Aufenthalt stuff - just play innocent.
I worked for 18 months in Jena (which remember is in the ex-commie, Gulag-loving DDR) on an expired AHG. EU Citizens don't need work permits but used to get 5 years AHG at a go, provided they don't leave the country for more than 6 months at a time. I had violated the latter condition, but was simply rewarded with a permanent one (not for my loyalty & services to Deutschland, I should add, but because Mrs FG is German).

Edit: @YL6: Since when was the AHG was redundant? I got mine renewed in May 2004 after losing it.

Since 2005 (for EU citizens)

But - If you would have gone to the KVR you would have gotten it the same day... I did - it was sometime last spring, took about 30 minutes and 20 euros or so..

If you have all the documents you can renew it just by popping in and joining the queue (EU anyway)

I get a 7 year one each time! It is in fact a 5 year one. But I kind of forget, then don't want to face going there. That usually takes another 2 years before I manage it. Entering and leaving the country will-nilly in the mean time. (EU you see)

Last time I went, the lady was nice. So next time I won't have that fear like the old days where they really hated you!

Hi Ian - really? A seven-year one each time? Have they changed something? I got a five-year one when I first got here (pretending, thanks to my Brit-born dad, that I was a real UK citizen), and after the five years they gave me a permanent one...don't they do that anymore? Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic, as EU-members definitely get simplified treatment..but Ian, from one "Brit" to another, now I AM confused..?
Victoria

What are you talking about a seven or five year thing? Like YL6 says, you don't need this shit at all if you have an EU passport!

Since 1st Jan 2005, citizens of an EU member state no longer need to have an Aufenthaltserlaubnis. You are supposed to have now a Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung which is basically a piece of paper that says you have an official right to stay here indefinitely.

But they wouldn't let me. The woman at the KVR told me that since I had done my Anmeldung by the Einwohnermeldeamt in Ismaning, there was no record of me at the KVR and I had to go to the other place.

Ah well... whatever.

Oh, that sucks. I suppose that's my reward for battling it out at the KVR back in the day when they posted guards at the number machines...

Mine is in there as a sticker too - Austrian "Niederlassungsbewilligung" having married an Austrian way back when (it is "unbefristet").

The reason I am even posting this is that the sticky one on my friend Peter's visa (he, American, married an Austrian also) got holepunched when his passport expired, and then he applied for a new sticker and now he has to apply for a short-term Niederlassungsbewilligung every few years.

Maybe this is different in NF-land (Germany).

it depends why you are here and how much you earn etc (well in hessen anyway) even though im a brit cos im studying and not earning that much im given a new one every 2 years til im finished and onl;y when im self emplyed someday or get a "real" job will i get a "freizuegig wotsit"

You are not "supposed" to have it at all. You have a right to apply and get one if you want one, but it really isn't a lot of use, unless, perhaps you need to persuade a non-EU state of your residence entitlement.

I had this issue once in the USA.
I was checking in at Denver airport to fly to Frankfurt & onto Hamburg & they
wanted to see my ticket to the UK. I said I didnt have one as I didnt intend going
there: my residence & job was in Germany. So they ask "where was my visa for Germany"
to which I responded: EU citizen, freedom of movement & residence...

I had some time on my hands so I let them run down this rathole - I cannot recall
details but maybe I pulled my tattered umlimited Aufenthaltserlaubnis to settle the discussion

Actually I was asked to produce a copy of the Aufenthaltserlaubnis when registering something
in germany but that was almost 20 years ago & may not be needed now...

So what is the deal with leaving the country for more than six months at a time as a US citizian? Can you lose your Aufenthaltserlaubnis? I just called the KVR and she told me I need to go in and tell them how long I am leaving for and they cancel it for a certain period of time or something. Or that I get a shorter one (mine is unbefristet).

I dont know too much, but I did a mistake with not going to the police where I was registered. It caused a problem with health care and insurances. Aufenhaltserlaubnis?can you lose it, good quesiton. I would think not. But I strongly suggest talking with the authorities.

Put it another way. If someone died (I hope of course not!!) then you have to leave, maybe for a longer period of time. So I dont think they would take this away from you.. would seem strange, as getting it in the first place takes time I also think the exchange between the governments/relations is good so no problem there.

Good luck