Company to shut down and move to Eastern Europe

Hi,

My company have annouced that they will close down our department totally, with all the work being transferred to an eastern european country resulting in the loss of about 40-50 jobs.

We basically want to make this as difficult as possible for them to transfer the knowledge to the east and to shut us down. But I would appreciate some advice on how to best do this without breaching the terms of the contract.

I have heard about a "works council", but don't really know what it is or what it can do.

Any advice?

dj.

Be very careful... If you go ahead with such a plan, they can severely limit or screw with what you get when you leave, and can
make it hard for you to claim unemployment once your gone.

Step 1. See if your Company even has a works council. If they do then go speak to one of the Reps.
If the company doesn't have a works council, then seek out the advise of a Lawyer specializing in Workers Rights/Law.

We don't have a works council but are thinking about setting one up.

The split us off as a separate company a few months ago to make it easier to shut us down.

How exactly can they do that? Assuming you've paid into the system, I don't think there's anything an employer can do to prevent you claiming unemployment benefits.


If there is a works council, they should be able to help you to get the most out of the situation. A company I worked for a few years ago closed down, and the works council made sure we all got decent payoffs.

You must speak to your works council ("Betriebsrat") asap. I think they should already have been consulted and if you know about it then they have probably agreed it with the company (their duty is to all the employees, not just your department, so they may have been convinced by the company that this move is necessary to safeguard even more jobs in the longer term, in which case they have to agree to it). Still, it doesn't hurt to try. If the company haven't done it then they're on a sticky wicket indeed.

Then find out what you'll get in return for going quietly. You never know, it might be worth while keeping Mum and taking the money, particularly if you think you can get a new job reasonably easily.

Maybe its because such high wages are expected here that your company is forced to look for cheaper ways of opperating.. We were going to move our office to Banglastan, but the commute each day was going to be a bit too much for us!

Get over it... start looking for another job.

and if your company doesn't have a works council yet, it is too late to set one up anyhow.
get some legal advice so you know what to expect. it could be you are thrown out in 3 months or 3 weeks, but don't fret.

Our company did something very similiar a while ago - the works council put up a fight but it didn't stop the decision. However, I think they did end up with job offers within the corperation but a different company and some got nicer pay outs...

Why would you want to do this? I understand that you're pissed off (commiserations, by the way), but the decision was obviously made a long time ago. Rather than trying to fight the inevitable, devote your energies to negotiating a good payoff.

You should also not post on Toytown that you want to do something "bad" to the company as you may be posting for jobs in the near future.

Not necessarily. Our works council was only set up after the closure was announced, if I remember correctly.

...or of course you could accept that economic migration (which perhaps brought you here from the UK in the first place) should work for others as well, allowing them to work their way out of poverty and earn enough money to buy whatever is the product of the company you work for next.

Just a thought.

Communist

When you say "transfer the knowledge," are you talking about intellectual property?

Because I believe what the workers produce for the company in terms of "knowledge" belongs to the company, not the workers.

I have sympathy for your situation, and maybe IP isn't relevant here, but if it is, I don't think you have any recourse.

No doubt they know how to do things, and these things probably aren't written down anywhere..

The problem that we actually have is not the move itself, as you said we have to get over it and move on which it is time to do anyway. The cost savings is why the want to do it. Somebody in Germany doing job x earns about 24-28k pa, but in the new place it would be about 7 pa. So this is understandable.

But we have actually been proactive and found 2 or 3 people who are interested in actually buying us and our experience so that they can expand but they don't want to sell, with no real reason given! So they could sell us for x million which would be pure profit and still achieve there savings and goals but instead they want to close us down and pay 1-2 million for the privilege of doing it! So they have the change of providing long term futures for 50 people and make money but they are not interested!

So then why makes things easy for them? I am not talking about doing anything illegal or sackable, just more a work to rule approach. Where we do the minimum of what is required and make sure that they treat us right when we do go.

Something else we have discussed is of course a mass resignation, which would cripple them overnight. But this is a bit extreme and people have families to worry about, and it's not good having your pride if you have no food on the table.

By knowledge transfer I mean the knowledge of how to run and operate the day to day operations, so that they can also do this job.

Yeah, I hate it when companies think about the long term rather than opting for a quick, short-term profit.

No offence, but I'm sure the company knows what it is doing; after all, they have more experience and have more information than you do. Like I say, you need to accept the decision and work towards a good payoff. Mass resignations or work-to-rule won't achieve that.

View this as an opportunity; get a good payoff, spend the money travelling the world, then come back and find another job. When you look back on this, you'll probably be thanking the company.

@Small Town Boy: would you care to define "a good payoff"?

Maybe they hope to make good profits in the new location.

One thought... Could you get one of the two or three potential buyers to setup a new firm in the same location afterwards with the same people? The buyers would not have to buy the old business or its name, only setup in it's place. You would all still get your payoffs as well...

@UN: That would be a relative term taking into consideration average payoffs in Germany and in that field of work, plus the number of years spent working for that company, plus their wage. I couldn't put a figure on it.

That is another option for us! So we have to see.

The making more money in another location thing doesn't work, because they are pan-euopean, and they will still keep offices here in DE, just not for our jobs.

I have been working for them for nearly 10 years, and I have seen that they have made such bad decisions and don't care about the people working for them at all. So I don't have faith in them at the moment.

Until a couple of years ago the company was great to work for. But the business environment has changed and they have failed to adapt, if they continue this way they will be in serious trouble within 5-7 years.

It wouldn't be the first time dissatisfied employees leave a company and set up on their own, but in Germany??? You'd have to have a financial backer or backers that were with you 100%.

I suspect they didn't sell because they don't want you guys, working for a spun-off company, competing with their new endeavor. If you all get jobs at a variety of other companies, it doesn't threaten their new business so much as all the same people still working together. Customers might be tempted to stick with the workers they know rather than giving their business to the same company, different personnel.

I've had a word with an ex BR representative I know

She says the original company's BR might still feel responsible for you (speak to them) and might even still be legally responsible for you (she doesn't know what the law is in this case, there is some time limit but she isn't sure what it is). Even if only the former is true, it is then the BR's problem whether the company will negotiate with them or not. It really is worth talking to the BR and asking whether there is anything they can do (they are unlikely to be able to save your jobs but might be able to get you a pay off or something).