Dual citizenship rules in Germany

Can someone please enlighten me on this?

I was born outside Germany to a German mother (my parents were married at the time). As I was born prior to 1975, and my mother failed to register me as a German before 1977, I am apparently disqualified from the right to German citizenship otherwise accorded under the German constitution to ANY person born of a German parent. Had my father been German, however, there would be no problem, plus I would be allowed dual citizenship. In other words, my mother is, as it were, ungültig.

In the meantime, I have lived in this curious country for over eight years, and would be entitled to acquire citizenship through naturalisation. However, one of the requirements is that you relinquish your previous citizenship, which I am discinclined to do in light of ongoing and close ties (family etc.) to my country of birth.

I must say I find this very frustrating. I feel very much a citizen of both countries; on the one hand, there is my country of birth, where I grew up, studied and still have many friends and both parents. On the other hand, I speak German like a native, my mother made me very aware of my heritage throughout my upbringing, and I have lived here for nine years and have no immediate plans of leaving. Just why I should have to waive my original nationality under these circumstances is mystifying.

My questions:

- to those constitutional lawyers out there, isn't this unconstitutional? I simply cannot believe that a group of people ("only2 a German mother, born prior to 1975) can be subject to such extraordinary discrimination. It seems that citizenship is not at all the basic right as described under the GG. Does anyone know whether this question has ever come before the BGH?

- if I were to go the naturalisation route, are there realistic exceptions whereby I could in fact retain my citizenship (the Act cites a few, but they are extreme and don't apply in my case)? In other words, is the authorities' bark worse than their bite? Moreover, what kind of proof do they require that you have in fact given up your old citizenship?

I would be very interested and grateful to hear from anyone who has had experience in this area.

Thanks and servus.

I think you and Hazza should get together and talk about this. He had similar problems a while back: trying to get German citizenship

You don't state what your current citizenship is.

Do you need German citizenship for practical reasons or purely to confirm that you feel like a citizen of both places. Not that it makes a difference I suppose - it is quite an annoying rule I guess.

My original citizenship is Australian. Apparently 25% of Australians carry two passports.

I would like it for both reasons. I think it is fair to say that I feel both Australian and German, and identify with both cultures equally. I know plenty of people waving German passports around who have far less of a connection to the country than I do, which is also annoying (they have a German father, but have never even been here). It frustrates me that I am being deined what is supposed to be a basic right.

On the practical side, an EU passport obviously carries benefits that I don't need to describe here. For example, I have to spend quite a bit of time travelling to former Soviet Union countries, and I can tell you it would be a hell of a lot easier with a German passport!

You should DEFINITELY talk to Hazza.

You and I are in EXACTLY the same situation. I too have a German mother, was born prior to 75, and not registered. I too have tried the dual route - NOGO. I find it highly discriminatory (blood of the father´s what counted then), unjust (I would have registered when I was 1 day old had I been cognizant of the go*damned german penchant for bureaucracy), and would have to now give up my US passport to get citizenship (sorry Herr Landratsamt, snowballs would have to freeze over in hell before I do that.)

If you want to tackle the BGH, I´m with you. Seriously.

Decline your australian citizenship, get german one and then resume australian one. I have a friend with 4 passports this way. US, UK, Germany, Canada.

There are always ways to cheat pig-headed people dude.

Koorosh! Are you insane ?? Give up the Australian citizenship in the hope you can get it back! That is not good advice. Fabmac - although not born of direct German parents (my great grandparents were infact German)! I have also written about our frustrations about being able to get German citizenship only if we relenquished our Australian citizenship. We have lived here now for over 20 years and would like to do the citizenship thing for many reasons but would never feel right about giving up the Australian passport - and why should we when so many other people can have dual nationality.

Right so from your logic others cheat so you feel you should get away with it? A lot like the many members here who don't pay tax but banter on about being left wing and enjoying the wonderful services here.

Load of toss - if one has the option to exchange one citzenship for another then ideas like "discrimination" and "rights" don't come into it.

Hang on a second Parnell...

Article 4 of the Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz says:


This, as far as I'm concerned, is a basic right.

That there are other regulations that then disqualify people born prior to 1 January 1975 of a German mother (but not father), which means that in actual fact the same rights are NOT accorded to everyone. That - at least according to my definition - is discriminatory.

If I'm missing something here, please explain it to me.

Just blame your mum for not registering you.

You are confusing the word "right" with the word "convenience". A right is something which is accorded to you by way of natural logic or need - such as life or enough food to survive , it is not something nor should it be that you lucked into and you are inconvenienced (but not seriously hampered) now due to its lack.

You wish to avail of the lucky fact that your Mom was German , this despite already having had the ridiculous fortune to be born into the first world with full citzenship rights to another first world country. Sure you could have even more but I think you've done more than a little well already. Now you're coming here looking for a way to get something else because of a technicality you've missed out on - I think fortune has already smiled enough on you (and I) sir.

I would hardly describe it as a 'basic right'. It's just a rule/law, which has another rule/law about 1975 tacked on to it

I understand the annoyance and see why you want both citizenships - but I don't think you'll get very far with the 'basic right' argument.

as others have suggested though, you may want to speak to Hazza and see if he has had any luck

You could always give up your Australian citizenship couldn't you - that probably wouldn't cause much inconvenience (although I understand the emotional attachment to it)

You need to speak to Hazza about this, but apparently this is all a German thing. You basically need to give up your Australian, get your German and then get your Australian back.

Only the inconvenience of having to get a visa every time you wanted to go back to visit friends and/or relations and if you should want to move back and get a job the answer would be "Piss off - you´re not Australian!"

Edit: Btw I´ve got no grudge against Australians, it´s just not very easy to find work there.

do EU people need visas for Oz? Crazy

I was very surprised the first time I went to Oz, that even British citizens need a visa for Australia even though it´s still part of the commonwealth!

If I recall the statistics correctly, something like 55% of all Americans claim to be of German decent. Now by your logic, should they all be entitled to now (3 generations later) be able to claim dual citizenship? On my mom's side, we are almost totally of German heritage, while on my dad's we are Irish, English, and Cherokee- should I get passports for all of these countries? There is sort of a point of being a citizen of and having allegience to one country- and while some have the lucky technicality of dual citizenship (like my daughter) it certainly wouldn't strike me as being anyones right.

Trying to get German citizenship because your great grandmother was German is just plain stupid.

But I'd be pretty pissed if I was fabmuc, seeing as he's not allowed it cause he Mum is german and not his Dad, or because he wasn't registered and further to that because Germany will not allow you to hold two passports.

I you are stateless you can gain german citizenship(if you meet requirement). Having 4 nationalities or more is not a disadvantage but makes it so flexible for you to work and live wherever you want.

Just giving up my Australian citizenship is more than emotional. There is the visa issue, the fact that both my (no-longer-so-young) parents are in Sydney, and uncertainty as to where I will be living in the long term. At present, I spend three months a year there, and I obviously want to be able to move freely between both countries. If I renounce my Australian citizenship, then I am facing all kinds of hurdles if I ever want to return to Australia, which seems ridiculous.

Parnell: I can't follow your logic at all, and I'm not too sure why you have adopted such a patronising tone. Your meandering contribution doesn't actually address the issue. Are you jealous of something?

And citizenship is a right, and not, as you claim, a convenience. If you can read German, then read the Ausländergesetz. The fact that my preferred route of acquiring German citizeship is called "Anspruchseinbürgerung" clearly indicates that it is an entitlement.

One other detail I should add: My mother recently obtained dual citizenship (i.e. an Australian passport) after getting an exemption from the BVA allowing her to do this. However, this process is completely unrelated to acqiring German citizenship as a foreigner. That certainly rubs a bit of salt into the wound...

@ fabmuc
Fact that BR posted on the forum pretty much in line with what i did proves you're being daft , and in calling my post patronising may i suggest you're also being defensive and childish.

The idea that you're MA got something and you didnt which is making you sore reinforces this belief. And Aussies call the Brits "Poms". Having DUAL citzenship is certainly a luxury , not a right (and personally i think should NEVER be allowed).

Parnell, that's an interesting stance coming from an Irishman...Ireland went through a phase of handing out passports to pretty well anyone who could spell potato.

again, I sympathise with your predicament (although the petty comments about Irish lessen the sympathy), but I don't see how you can't understand that it isn't a right as such


how can it be an entitlement when there is a law saying it isn't (for pre-75 people)

well good luck with sorting it out

Good man , and as soon as you can back up your bigotry with a source of that information I'll begin to consider you a worthwhile specimen of a single passport , let alone 2.

Didn't mean to cause offence to the Irish. However, Parnell has been strangely aggressive from the outset, and I was getting sick of it.

To add to my character development in this story, I'm a lawyer, so I have a fair idea as to what is or is not a right. However, I've never come across anything like this. There are several ways in which German citizenship can pass, but irrespective of that citizenship is indeed regarded as an inalienable right.

It is completely bizarre that this right should be qualified in this way and that they didn't make the amending legislation ("validating" mothers from 1 January 1975) retroactive. That's why I'm seriously wondering whether it isn't unconstitutional, as I don't see how you can reasonably deny a specific group of people a right to which everyone else is entitled.

But thanks for the offer of good luck, as I dare say I'll need it.

deffo contact Hazza

Parnell, a quick look at your posts in reply and I find the following keywords directed towards me: load of toss, ridiculous. daft, defensive, childish, bigotry, plus a bizarre rant about my (allegedly) incredibly privileged background. That I lose patience with you is not especially surprising.

Not one constructive or intelligent contribution on the question I raised. Why do you even bother? You might at least tell us why you disagree with the notion of dual citizenship.

@ fabmuc
LMAO ... ok "lawyer" - go look at the my first post on this thread - "load of toss" is not directed at you personally - here it is

"Load of toss - if one has the option to exchange one citzenship for another then ideas like "discrimination" and "rights" don't come into it."

bigotry - well that's plainly obvious from your own post on potato spellers and IRish citzenship unless you can back it up with a source of such info... I'm waiting...

The rest kinda just follows but keep postin - Im sure you're winning over the board with your remarkably powerful arguments about how you're being discriminated against you poor victim. Contact Hazza ? Contact fuggin Oprah more like.

despite being a dual citizen myself, I can sort of understand why some countries are reluctant. Difficult to articulate but I suppose a state feels they are granting you a privilege (sp) and so you should somehow be committed to them by not going off and pledging allegiance (sp? again) to a bunch of other places. Bit old fashioned perhaps but I can sort of see the thought behind forcing people to relinquish other citizenships

that's our lovely parnell. i would call him brusque not aggressive.

Speaking as someone who has 3 passports - French, Canadian and German - I can say that they are incredibly convenient, there's no doubt about it. And, if my mother had been German instead of my father, I would be in the same situation as you are fabmuc.

I don't feel like I am abusing anything because my parents and ancestors gave a lot to their countries - France and Germany - like military service during WWII, and the lives of their brothers and sisters in that same war.

If Germany has a thing as the German citizenship being transferred through "blood", than it should be equally valid for the men and the women of Germany. Anything else is discrimination.

I don't know how to get around this however. I wish you luck.

If one has an Irish grandparent can one acquire an Irish passport? I have 2 paternal Irish grandparents (but no ginger hair).

If you are: Then you are:
A Born in the island of Ireland on or before 31 December 2004 Entitled to Irish citizenship or you are an Irish citizen
B Born on the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 Entitled to Irish citizenship if your parents are Irish. Entitled to Irish citizenship, if your parents are non-nationals legally resident in Ireland for three out of four years immediately prior to your birth
C Child of A, born outside the island of Ireland An Irish citizen
D Child of C and a grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, but you must first register in the Foreign Births Register
E a child of D and a great-grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, by having your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register, but only if your parent D had registered by the time of your birth.

For once I think Parnell may be wrong on this point. The fact that the legislation allows you to assume citizenship if you have a German father, but maintains that you must register in Germany within two years to gain that citizenship if your parent is female is discrimatory and sexist; it is one rule if your parent is a man and another if they just happen to be a woman. In that respect I can see why fabmuc feels exasperated.

Minimissi has the good fortune of having three passports and good luck to her. He/she was born in Canada, Mother is French and Father is German. It does not matter whether her parents served in WW2 or not, this is what she is entitled to and I say fair fucks to her. To be honest i think she was goaded into her remarks and that it is not a troll. Maybe Americans do think you should earn what you get not inherit it, I don't know. But I do not think you have to be American to have a case of "The Poor Mouth" or in this case the poor mouth in reverse.

On the subject of the Irish state giving passports out left, right and centre, it is a true statement although there had been some tightening of the criteria required to become Irish in the last two years mostly because of the referendum on citizenship. I think it is a positive thing, not a negative thing, to allow people that live in your country and contribute to it, to qualify for citizenship and to build a life and future there. I see the German system criteria as quite restrictive.

Having said all that i am Irish and i have no desire to become any other nationality, if i was born in australia I would be Australian, if i was born in germany i would be German, if i was born in Argentenia i would be Argentian and i would want to remain so. If someone is adopting a new nationality or looking dual nationality for purely personal gain then I can see parnells point, but then a framework defining who should get citizenship should be implemented for all countries. The problem is countries are like people they often do things for self gain and not for the common good.

But also I think many of you who have EU passports are missing the point. It is an added burden when living in Europe long term to have a non-EU passport.

Also, (KK and a few others who got a bit hot and bothered) pre 1990 Germany did give citizenship to all those people who could prove blood ties to Germany. If we were able to document my great grandparents citizenship and even my husband's German great grandparents - we would have been at that time legally and fully entitled to German citizenship. (Unfortunately at that time even if we had applied for German citizenship under the blood tie rules - we would have been forced to reliquish ourAustralian citizenship because at that time Australia hadn't yet seen the light and would have demanded we give up our Australian citizenship. (They have since ammended the law) Fortunately, times have changed, thinking has changed and thus the law, made by people, has also been changed to reflect "modern" thinking.

Rules are just arbitary decisions made by people and when enough pressure is applied rules can be changed.

Okay, another twist then! I have 4 grandparents- not one was Canadian, but my parents and I are born in Canada- so technically, what you are all saying is because I can prove my grandparents citizenship I should be entitled to 4 more passports besides my Canadian one? (grandparents are- Icelandic, American, Russian and Ukrainian) Then my grandmother that was born in the US her father was Scottish (her mom was First nations) so should I also be entitled to a British pass?

I do agree that only allowing citizenship due to fathers birth nation is sexist and should be changed.

It has indeed been changed. The problem is that it doesn´t apply to those born prior to 75.

that is also wrong!
like what was 75 some special year for German birth rate or something?

sorry I cannot help you more!

Hi Fabmuc

I was born in Germany but lived in Canada from the time I was 4 until about four years ago; well over 30 years. Probably since the time we got to Canada my mother was trying to get me dual citizenship. I continued these efforts in my adult life without success. In those thirty years there were no exceptions made that I am aware of.

Over the past three years I have realized I am more Canadian than German but I have lost my landed immegrant status in Canada. Lucky for me I am not desperate to go back.

Those are the rules of the country you have chosen to live in. As far as I am aware most countries require you to choose one citizenship.

actually, i think you will find most countries allow dual or multiple citizenship.

Of those that allow dual/multi citizenship, I think the majority only allow it in the cases of one having parents who are citizens of other countries. Most countries will require you to relinquish citizenship in former countries if you want to become a naturalized citizen.

I'm not so sure. Marriage, for example, often (usually?) results in the acquisition of a second passport.


Do you have a reliable source? I'm not nitpicking, I am genuinely interested because the only examples I know of concern (Western European) countries that don't have such a requirement.

Actually I could be wrong- it was just my impression (perhaps based on the Western European countries I'm aware of) that it was the case. Wikipedia states that some countries require a renunciation (for those becoming naturalized citizens) but that it may not in fact revoke the other citizenship. I could stand corrected.

What happened to all the posts here? I was really enjoying reading the back-and-forth. I hope it's just a glitch or perhaps they were moved to another topic and that they weren't deleted intentionally. I guess one could argue they were slightly off-topic, but were definitely related to German dual citizenship rules (I was only through page 3 or 4 out of 5+, though, so maybe the discussion veered away from talk of citizenship).

Regarding the topic at hand, the German courts have ruled, I believe, in the tax context that the law could not disincentivize female employment by taxing it differently. It may have been an EU court or a German court ruling with regard to new EU rules.

Therefore, it would seem that the same standard could be applied to citizenship requirements that differ by sex. But, the argument is a bit more difficult because the topic is so far removed from taxes. Sure there are financial burdens, but the overall topic of citizenship is so handled and categorized so differently.

One question with regard to dual citizenship: isn't the traditional reason countries didn't allow dual loyalties/citizenship is because they wanted to know who you'd fight for if they went to war with the other country? Dual citizenship seems to be a very modern concept that our grandparents' generation would have great difficulty understanding (at least if that generation went through war, which is probably true of the vast majority). For those who really favor dual-citizenship, are you only in favor of it with regard to certain countries or should the rules be equal without regard to specific countries or their recent history?

Whoa...censorship alert! What happened to all the posts?! I certainly hope there´s a good reason because to just delete a whole block out, leaves the remainder disjointed. People respond the way they do after reading the thread. By taking out part of it, you mislead the rest of us...

I am currently an American citizen my Grandmother migrated from Germany During WWII (1943) i still have family back in Germany and ive heard about claiming heritage to get citizenship does anyone know what steps you must take to gain German citizenship(I am willing to waive my American citizenship although i was told i would have until age 23 to decide that)

thank you for any help you can provide me

I don't know where your figure of 23 comes from, I believe its 18..

and as for the heritage citizenship, I believe it only applies if your country fled Germany because of persecution from the Nazi's..

I have heard 18 and 23 and other numbers from officials at the German consulate in Toronto when I was inquiring about retaining my German citizenship. I was naturalised Canadian at very young age and had by the time I was 23 to decide. I tried renewing my passport at age 20 and they told me I would have to decide. Who knows?

Anyways, it's fun having parents of different citizenships because I've always had British too, so I never lost any sleep over it.