Life in London and tips for moving there

I am currently considering a few positions in London. I am Canadian and have never lived in London but already have some reservations. So many of you guys have lived or are from London I d like to know a couple of things.

1. Cost of living: the recruiters obviously say its not so bad and that you can live on the same money here as there. Most Germans I have talk to say you need to earn the same in Pounds as you do in Euros to keep up. What would you say?

2. How much does an apartment cost. I have a 2 room apt now 670 Euros. I have heard I should budget 1000 Pounds... Is it really that expensive? Is a 2 rooms excessive?

3. Where is the best place to live. (I don t have or want a car - like to be central with interesting bars and restaurants - noisy is ok but I go running everyday so would need some green space).

4. A salary of 40000-55000 pounds how much would you take home after tax?

5. Any thing else I should keep in mind?

1. Earn the same in pounds as Euros - tricky one, but not to inaccurate I would guess - tax is lower at only 23% below about 30kGBP.
2. Varies wildly from area to area, but about 1k should be about right for a 2 bedroom job somewhere OK in London - will be a small second room though.
3. For that I would say Islington - hardly central but not too bad. It can appear a bit rough around the edges tho, and be careful (or should that be Powerfull (sic))late at night.
4. Errr - 23% on first 30k or so, 40% thereafter - you do the maths! There is also a tax free bit and a small chunk at 10% tho I can't remember the thresholds.
5. Blimey - lots of things. For a start eating out, drinking and travelling on the underground - all very expensive and public transport is unreliable. More importantly tho, if you like cosmopolitan cities London kicks Munich's arse. Certainly a lot busier, smellier and pricier, but I always have maintained, and always will maintain that London has a buzz that Munich just doesn't...
Any more help, either post or PM me...

Cost of living:

a) I would say at least this, my monthly tube pass cost me €150

b) Accommodation will be 2-3 times as much (unless you compromise which is more than likely inevitable)

Apartment costs:

Rentals have come down as far as I know, however, If you wanted to be central i.e. SW 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 (these are central postal codes) 2 years ago you would need close to €2000 for a 2 room 50m² apartment. You could go further south or North and get a place for €1500.

Best places to live:

a) Not much greenery in London – The odd park and Hyde Park of course (not as chilled as the English Garden though).

b) € 2000 +/- South Kensington, West Kensington, Fulham, Earls Court, High street Kensington
€ 1500 +/- (further North or south) Putney Islington etc

c) There is never a shortage of restaurants and bars.
You may be able to get a central studio (30m² for €1000 or less if you move further out, maybe 700-800, Putney is probably fairly good value for money [/color]

Take home salary from 40-55k pounds: Just over 2000 pounds to 3000 pounds I think

Hi Powerfull. I just moved here from London 6 months ago.

To get an exact figure on PAYE use this calculator:

http://www.e-gismos.com/ukpay.asp

Take home on £50,000 is £2886 per month
Take home on £40,000 is £2395 per month

1. Cost of Living. For sure everything is cheaper here in Munich from beer to clothes to accommodation. I think 1.5 times for expensive sounds about right - depends what you spend your money on of course!

2. Apartments? There was a thread recently citing London as 2nd only to Tokyo on costs. Central London could be up to £2,000 a month for a nice apartment but most people share of course. A "2 room" over here is called a "1 bed" (1bed + 1 living room) in the UK! If you move out to the suburbs (see below) then budget £600-£700 a month for reasonable 1 bed place. You can get 2 bed for £900 which is why people share...but rentals are certainly down.

3. I am biased. I dont think you would need to go truly CENTRAL to get lively bars and restaurants. West London is the only direction to be. Putney/Clapham is a short tube journey to London but rent still pricey. Depending on where you work (e.g. is it close to Waterloo station?) then you could go for the London edge of Surrey/Middlesex such as Twickenham/Richmond/Teddington (my patch!). Plenty of place to run in Richmond Park etc.

Because London is so big compared to Munich (12 Million as opposed to 1.3Million) you almost have cities within cities. You will probably never step foot in East London for example (probably best actually).

£40,000 to £50,000 is enough for you to survive fine in London but you won't be living like a king!

I used to work in the City as a foreign exchange broker in my 20's and PERSONALLY hated the whole frantic/busy/tourists/traffic/smoke/bars scene and couldnt wait to get out to clean air and less stress of the suburbs. Covent Garden etc for me is full of pretentious ****ers. That was 15 years ago, I was earning £mucho per annum, with company car, unlimited expenses and still had a huge overdraft!!!

So in a nutshell - go for it if you can commute from Richmond/Teddington area to work and then you can have the best of both worlds - but the full-on Kensington scene will be a culture shock compared to Munich.

All good points from JE except the one above - some parts are best avoided, but that could be said of any part of London. The East for example has Docklands which can be a good night out now and again (OK, a bit pretentious, but if you live in Munich you should be used to that). The docks aren't a bad place to live either IMHO - always liked the flats by the Royal Victoria Dock for some reason.

East London has its' benefits, here are 10 quick ones:
1. You can get home at night. None of that cab driver, "Nah mate, not sarf ova rivvah" malarkey.
2. When the trains/buses/tubes/cab drivers go on strike you can walk home (if you work in the city that is). The tube and bus network is also denser and you probably don't need to get a proper train home (not like to Putney).
3. Trains out of Liverpool Street run late (and the station shops are good).
4. M4 has more jams than Dartford Crossing.
5. Bluewater and Lakeside.
6. Markets. Portobello is hellish (in my opinion), Petticoat Lane is better (but hang on to your purse eh?).
7. Docklands (and DLR), you can get an ok place for not too silly money and there is a big Tesco nearby.
8. Clerkenwell's restaurants.
9. Hackney Empire.
10. Cheap flights out of Stansted.

Whenever I have the option to go and relocate anywhere I always ask myself:

• Am I leaving to ESCAPE?
• Am I leaving to CREATE?

Everything else is secondary.

Being Creative is the most interesting option.

What are you doing 'Powerful'?

PICSIE

To PICSIE:

but those are surely both good reasons for leaving. How does understanding which is the case help you to make the decision to leave or not?

Bah, I knew before coming here that I would want to create myself an escape route.

Katrina - I reckon if pushed I could come up with 10 reasons to live almost anywhere...like Baghdad.

Oh heck I'll give it a go:

1. Warm weather
2. Cheap housing
3. Plenty of employment for Westerners
4. Cheap cost of living
5. No speed limits
6. Interesting religious artifacts
7. Cheap petrol
8. Chance to make history
9. Excitement every day!
10. The only way is up...

Now if given the choice "Where do I live in London?" no-one with a grain of sense is gonna actually choose East over West, and more than you would have chosen East over West Berlin.

The West is the direction to Oxford Street shopping, Twickenham for the Rugby, Wembley for football, Windsor for horses and royalty, Theatres, Harrods, Eton, Richmond, Heathrow Airport etc.

What has the East got? Stansted Airport, Lakeside Shopping Centre and the Commercial Road. Docklands is just an artifical modern creation to attempt to tart up what is essentially a bit of dump.

Now expecting a serious flamefest from people attempting to defend...

(makes a nice change from Yank Bashing!).

I have never read such a load of crap in my life. But I'm about to get into my England shirt and clear off down the pub so I'll leave it. But tell me - Ruislip, better than Docklands??? Come on!

As it happens I have many fond childhood memories of days out at Ruslip Lido:

http://www.ruislip.co.uk/lido/

I assume being from East London you were busy at the same age learning how to hotwire cars, remove hubcaps and stereos, mug old ladies etc etc.

(JE retires to safe distance from PC screen)

Furthermore "The Young Ones" was made at Ruslip Lido:

(as it happens the old Botoxed Left-Pegger himself lives in Weybridge)

As always, I am really impressed with replies. You guys are great. Mind you I ll weigh in on the Docklands when I get back. I'm doing a week reconaissance in London to check it out. I think I ll print out your replies and check a few corners out especially Islington and Putney (well thats why I ll print out everything so I don t forget to much).

To create or escape? Well strangely I am liking Munich more now that I am thinking about leaving, but I think the oppurtunity to live in London a few years may be too exciting to turn down!

Again thanks everyone! I ll be cheering for England+Owen!

I'm with JohnnyEnglish here. Forget East London and stick with Richmond - a good place where you are close enough to central London and where you will maintain a nice standard of living in a decent area.

The View from Richmond Hill:

Typical View of the East End:

LMAO! The East End is not where I would suggest any foreigner lives - and I have to confess, Richmond is indeed very nice. In actual fact I'm an Essex boy who grew up just inside the Hertfordshire borders - so I wasn't hotwiring cars or mugging old ladies, but playing golf, drinking in over-priced wine bars and learning to laugh through my nosey with the horsey set.
Nevertheless, I rate Islington pretty highly - there are some great bars there, and if you pick the right flat you'll be on the Victoria Line straight into the West End - about 15mins away to Oxford Circus. If you live in Richmond you'll have to use a train would you not? And is the line through Richmond not one of the worst in the UK???
If you live in Docklands you'll be 30mins from W1 (but nice and close to the City and of course Canada Square). The thing with the docks is that from the window of your trendy loft conversion you can see Canning Town, Barking et al - not a nice part of town and not far away - more than once I caught young Chavs eyeing the neighbours array of expensive German sports cars whilst I was there - though in fairness I never heard of a theft or saw any evidence - I figure hotwiring a Porsche is more tricky than an A-plate Nova SR...

I grew up in Essex and am still registered as an overseas voter for Basildon.
That is why I like East London, I know the place.
Not that I ever saw much daylight, wot wiv being up all those chimmneys guv'nor.
Richmondzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - it is not for everyone. Mate of mine lives there and the place appears to be a management consultant ghetto (and she is one as well). But horses for courses, innit.
Islington can be very nice too, some nice bars about, an previous dalliance of mine lives there ha ha but don't let that put you off.
Katrina
PS *hot news* Tesco now stocks Erdinger Weissbier!

True - rail is bad through Richmond, but it's bad pretty much everywhere in UK. Besides on 50k, depending on where the askee works, he might well have no need of trains having invested in a set of wheels innit. I suggest a Capri. Aiiite.

I grew up near Richmond, it's pretty nice there.

Have the tube (District line) plus the train. Fast train regularly from Richmond to Waterloo.

When I go back next year, this is the area I want to live.

I would have to agree that even though Richmond is very beautiful it is a little way out and also quite boring. Islington (Angle tube stop specifically) is quite central in fact, other than there being loads or restaurants and bars up there, its only 3 stops form bank tube stop if you work in the city and one change to the west end. This is heavenly when living in London where the commute is the killer, or alt least one of them.

If one would like a more relaxing quiet time then Richmond is perfect, if one is looking for more of a party then Islington is probably better among other places
(Putney,Clapham, Fulham)

the great thing about Richmond, although it is out a little far, it does not take long to get into London centre, and there is always the N97 back again !

The great thing about Islington though is that nobody from proper London will think you're a t**t, unlike if you live in Richmond

I grew up around Richmond/Kingston.

So just what are you saying ?

People from London will all think you're a posh t**t. I'm from Hertfordshire though, so they all think even worse of me mate (and arguably they're right).

Well, I didn't grow up in London and have only been there a few times, but my brother-in-law lives off the Mudshute stop on the DLR and it seems nice enough. It's just a walk under the river to the park and shops, Tesco is right around the corner and it's a convenient location. His apartment is a bit industrial looking, but they houses in the neighborhood seem nice enough, even rather quaint. I could definitely handle living there, though his apartment costs about 1.5X what I pay in Ismaning, and my apartment is twice the size.

Mudshute. Heheheh. And you think the German's have funny names.

Who cares where you live as long as it's near a Tescos!!!

Quite amusing this really.

Just considering Jimbo that if someone comes from say Islington then they would think that people from Richmond are posh twats, and of course the Richmond folk will think people from Islington are common twats. Just the way of the world.

I met a mates bird with a really weird "posh" accent once...turned out she was from Birmingham and had tried to adopt the accent. Now THAT is a twat.

Although to be honest when I was an FX broker I worked with all Essex boys - and spoke almost 100% "allright-fella-howzit-goin" all day long.

What's Stoke Newington like? I'm moving there in September, was told it was "real" London and full of Hasidic Jews (don't really see how black clothed Jewish men make London real, but rock on), is all of east London slightly dodgy or just the Phil Mitchell-like part?

I used to live in London, in Camden Town. It was really good, because it was cheap (866 pounds a month for a 2 bed apartment), but was really central with the tube and lots of buses into cerntral london. I used to bike to work in Baker St in 10 minutes through Regents Park and rent there was over twice as much..

Overall it is in almost every respect more expensive than Munich, however if you are getting 55 grand, I can tell you that you have nothing to worry about! Unless you have a family, but even then you will get by without any trouble..

Oh yeh, and don't go south of the river, that is a rule I alway stuck by since actually going south of the river

i wouldn't call east london dodgy, but it's a long way from posh
if you like posh, you'd be best off moving to richmond or somewhere
personally, i lived in richmond when i first moved to london (because i'd been advised it was a "nice" place to live) - i lasted 6 weeks, couldn't stand it, full of hooray henries, i had nothing in common with those people, i just stayed in of an evening and cried
you're better off living somewhere with real people, and stoke newington certainly qualifies (i ended up in brixton, which also qualifies as "real" - and i loved it)
i think there are new vegetarian restaurants and trendy cafés popping up every week in stoke newington, this is what i'm led to believe anyway
it's one of the safer bits of east london (it's officially north london, anyway, innit?)
not on the tube, though
get a bus down the road to hackney, you can have some good nights out in hackney (i did), and cab it back home
it'll be a bit of a shock to the system after the fluffy cotton-wool life we live here in munich

A little late to the party here fellas but I'd say east not west on 50gs a year in London. Trying to live in Richmond on that wedge would not be amusing for you - perhaps for the neighbors.

Cotton wool isn't all it's cracked up to be, it causes chafing in the summer. Nice to hear Stokey's one of the safer parts of east London, no need to sleep with a knife under my pillow then. My flat is actually pretty close to the tube, about 5 streets over fron Manor House. Ooh, it's nice to know I will have a social life close to home, I live in Feldmoching at the moment where the most exciting place is Pinoccio's Mucis Cafe that closes around 11

what will really get on yer tits is the commute. it is a bitch. if you work in the city, DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES MOVE TO SOMEWHERE LIKE TEDDINGTON OR PUTNEY OR WIMBLEDON. people will tell you "it's only 20mins into waterloo" and forget to tell you that at 8.30am it actually takes another half hour to walk from your train to the waterloo and city platform

convenient locations if you work in the west end and do not want to spend south ken or notting hill money are pimlico or bayswater. you can rent a decent furnished one-bed ("zwei zimmer") flat in pimlico for 250 pounds a week which is like 1,100 per month. bear in mind that you will have to pay council tax.

bayswater and pimlico are westminster. expect to pay 55ish quid council tax per month for a 1-bed. other boroughs (camden, islington, etc) will charge twice as much and you will be further out so your travelcard will be more expensive. bottom line: live in the cheaper parts of zone 1, it is worth it in every way (e.g. pimlico: walk home from the west end, do not look for a cab, do not pass go, do not pay 20quid for a 7mile journey)

on 40k you will feel rather poor. on 55k you will be a bit more comfortable but by no means the king of mambo. 55k should equate to just over 3 grand a month after NI and income tax. it varies a bit depending on whether you have a company pension, contract out, contribute AVCs etc

government health "insurance" (read: NHS) is free. usually your company will pay for private health (BUPA or the likes)

generally, expect your money to dissappear faster than it does in MUC. that is not just because stuff is more expensive. in MUC, a lot of the fun stuff is free: hang out in the englischer garden, go hiking, go cycling. in London nothing is free, and you can't go hiking, cycling, etc unless you leave town

leaving town is a bitch. from zone 1, expect to drive for at least an hour to see some proper greenery (no I do not think hyde park or hampstead heath are "proper greenery"). if you play golf, surrey is a dream but it is a bitch to get to on the weekend since you have to cross south london which is a maze of one-lane streets

generally expect to feel poor not only because money evaporates at the speed of light, but also because so many people have so unbelievably much of it and you can see it everywhere. "relativity theory" if you will ;-)

I love London. when my Munich gig ended I instinctively went back there. now I am glad I don't actually live there because the logistics of life in London are just sooo much hassle. however, I would not want to stop going back there at the very least once a month.

What are you talking about? Do you have a 100 pound a day coke habit?

I have friends that live in London and work in pubs on 10 grand a year! You will be living it up on 30 grand let alone 40 or 55!

As you said, for 55k you'll probably get about 3 grand in hand each month.. factor in 1000 for rent and council tax and you still have 2 grand left each month..

It's all relative, but my household income is more than 55k and we don't feel particularly rich and neither of us has a coke habit (and we have a company car too). We live in a 2 bedroom house in Bromley - leaving a 25 minute commute to Victoria (so about 35mins to W1).

Will you lot shut up! I'm feelin' homesick.

Don't believe a word. If I were ever to go back it would be somewhere between Putney and Southwark, and somewhere close to the water (couldn't be doing with livin' with all those foreigners norf of the river).

I always had this dream about restoring a handful of Thames pleasure boats and converting them back to steam (I worked on the conversion of Streatley - volunteered for love). Then running trips from Westminster to Hampton Court... maybe even back on the original service to Folly Bridge, Oxford. S'in me blood, see. Always wanted to convert a tug and turn it into a home. Then again, I always had this dream of becoming a billionaire and buying Sheen Gulls. Time is tickin'.

@Jimbo

I might agree with you on the household income, if you have someone else to support but he was talking about his salary alone being 40-55k.. that is a pretty reasonable salary really..

@K1w1

I like Stoke Newington. Some friends of mine used to live there so was often out and about in the neck of the woods. If the Yucatan Pub (121 Stoke Newington Road) is still there then that was always great for a lock in. Often there until 3am. Couple of really good kebab shops there and a corner shop over the road that is open and sells beer 24 hours a day.

There are also some really nice pubs and restaurants up on Church Street (think that's the name of the road). All in all a good area. Occasional nutters and a few fights here and there but can always be avoided. It's a case of aggro attracts aggro. Stay mellow and no problemss.

As far as I know they still have the Stoke Newington festival at Clissold Park and all round Stoke Newington. Always used to be a good laugh.

Oh and avoid Clapton - it's evil.

hutcho I stand by what I said namely "on 55k you will be a bit more comfortable but by no means the king of mambo." what that means is: looking in from the outside 55k sterling looks like loadsamoney. in London it is not.

a one-bed in sw1 will set you back between 250 and 300 a week plus council tax 55 a month. that is 40% to half of your 3k gone

then comes transport at 18.50 a week. bills 100 a month. couple of mobile calls, couple of pints. couple of meals out at never under 30quid a pop, and floops. all gone...

and then if you add my coke habit of course...

Picking up on this topic, if I were to compare a London salary to my own, I would (according to this thread)

1) convert it to €€s
2) divide by 1.5 for the cost-of-living difference

So let's say that the London salary that I want to compare to my own is £55,000. £55,00 is approx. €80,000. Then €80,000/1.5 is approx €53,000.

Did I get that right? I know that the taxes are also a bit different, but I'm not sure by what percentage I should bump the € salary up by. Any ideas?

if you earn 55k yoyos here, you would want to earn about 55k ye olde engerlish pounds in london to be able to maintain the same lifestyle.

hope that helps.

this may also be of help.
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servlet/A...=199&internal=T

and, to add to jordingo's comments: a friend recently told me "no one can save money in London if they make less than 60,000."

Or spend half their lives commuting. Hence the rather busy trains.

Well actually it's cause my company was advertising for a position similar to mine, but located in London instead of Munich. I'm trying to compare the advertised wage to my wage, to make sure I'm not getting ripped off. Of course I can't compare the wage directly because of the currency and the cost-of-living adjustment.

Hello everybody!
Having finished university in July I am now sunny_me M.A. and a new stage in my life will begin! After careful consideration I have made a decision about what to do– and believe me it has been a very hard decision –I will leave this perfect life here in Munich behind and move to a city where I don’t really know anybody but which I truly love – London!!!

I hope to find a decent job there and a nice safe (!) place to live! I am aware of the fact that the cost of living will be a lot higher and I will probably have to struggle - at least in the beginning as I don’t expect my entry salary being very high – but I will give it a go!

I have read up on all the London related threads here on TT and of course done a lot of research on the net but I would still be happy about any recommendations about how to make it a good start over there. So any tips about how (and where!!!) to best find a room (nice, safe location, reasonably priced haha), a job (I would like to start my career in Public Affairs (Political consultancies), etc. will be highly appreciated!
Thanks a lot!

Topics merged by admin

I think the 'where to live in London' question has been done to death - certainly in the last six months. I would look at what people say on those threads for that.

Regarding political lobbying have a look at the Association of Professional Political Consultants. They are the trade body of lobbyists and political consultants in the UK.