Munich road accidents involving cyclists

So, minding my own business on the way to work this morning at 7:30 am, barely three blocks from my house, I see this kid (maybe 15) on his bmx jump off the sidewalk, down the curb and across the 4-lane street about 10 meters before the intersection.

Now, the two lanes in front of me were clear, but I still thought that was pretty gutsy, he was really zipping along, as was the white car next to me. What is it about this weather that makes drivers of all sorts so reckless?

Next thing I hear a very long and loud screaching of tires and look to my left in time to see the kiddo bounce off the hood of a volkswagon.

So I think about it and pull over, then pull up onto the sidewalk, and ask the guy whose buddy had just run across the street if he thinks the police have already been called and gave him my number if they needed a witness. Within minutes the cops were there anyway so I went over.

None of the witnesses who stopped (and who I spoke to) saw the kid ride into the street! They didn't see anything until either they heard the tires or the impact. (Except for the driver of course). So I waited and waited, and all the other witnesses were interviewed, the kiddo was taken to the hospital (he was awake but definately broke a few things) and another set of cops showed up and started measuring distances and speculating - while I was jumping up and down saying "I SAW it!" (Silly cops). Anyway, they finally did interview me, very nice they were as well, and after just over an hour I was free to go to work during the height of rush hour. (In the meantime my car battery died because it sucks and I left the radio on low). So, I got to work at 10, feel sorry for the kid but also for the driver who had to take a breathilizer test and was looked at by some of the witnesses as if he were the devil in person for hitting a kid.

The bike is locked up there still - a trick bmx style bike with the poles on the wheel hubs to stand on and spin the bike around, do tricks etc. I hope the policewoman took the key with her.

So, welcome to the first day of summer in Munich!

Anyway, I guess I needed to post it to get it out of my system, I was totally expecting to look over and see a huge blood puddle on the ground. But the kiddo was awake and could move his head, thank goodness.

Thanks for listening. Carry on.

Little punks.. might teach him a lesson..

I'm not sure what the age limit is for kids, but basically, if any driver hits a 'kid' they are in the wrong!
I was also told that sometime last year the laws were tightened even more on behalf of the 'kids' against drivers.

The way it was explained to me was that no matter what, the kid is always in the right.

This immediately prompted me to ask "What if a family stop on the motorway, sorry autobahn, at a rest place, or as a breakdown and one of their kids decides to wander off for a walk into the fast lane?"

Technically, any driver who hits them would be in the wrong and facing a jail sentence!

Geez, what a rotten birthday present!
Just goes to show that if kids are around on bikes, be ready to brake. I know that they should stay on their paths/sidewalks (if young enough) but what with the bad examples set by many grown-ups and the belief in their own invulnerability you can rely on them for doing something stupid. Tragically, not all incidents end as positively as this one and the driver is - as you said - always blamed for killing a kid or disabling it for life, no one wants to hear the full story.

They were very good about listening to my side of the story and writing it down (I even got to sit in the police van, but I thought it might be bad form to ask for a photo with a police hat on) It was also fairly obvious from where the accident took place that the kid was in the wrong - I just hope the driver doesn't get too much grief for it (well, I also hope that the kid is more shook up than hurt and has perhaps learned a lesson). I honestly don't know if I would have been able to brake that well if he had come at me from that angle. The kid's actually lucky that the driver was paying attention to his left and not his right at that very second.

You should have told them that it's your birthday today!

I think that is exactly the way it should be. Driving is not a right, it is a priviledge that comes with responsibilities. A driver should always be aware of any potential dangers including a child biking or running out right in front of them and if this is too difficult then they shouldn't be driving. IMO far too many people are given drivers licences.

Kay , I really did think about that, even after he asked for my date of birth and didn't blink. But decided against it, chicken I guess. And I did want them to take me seriously. A bit at least.

There are limits to being liable for another persons idiocy though. It could have been you or me that the kid rode in front of.

a coupla years ago i was waiting for the bus to go home from work. near the bus stop, direction into town was a school & home for blind people. the bus stop coming from the city was practically right across from the school for the blind. but b/c it was the industrial area, they put in a traffic light that would turn red automatically if someone pushed the ped button. i'd seen them do this year after year. no incidents.

anyhow, this day, i watched a girl get off the bus, press the button, but saw that the light didn't turn red. the girl waited and waited then just took off running across the street. of course a guy had at that moment turn left onto this main road right as the girl was darting haphazardously across the stree. she almost made it across. now, he saw her and braked a good 15 m from the girl, but it was raining...

i gave my statement to the police and the police told me, it's still the guys fault. he saw she was blind (her white stick and all) and she as a pedestrian had the right of way.

i called the school the next day to see how she was. just a broken arm, some scratches and the director tells me they know the light is broken! has been for weeks. i hung up.

Cycling on a public street also involves responsibilities.

Idiocy? It's a child. Maybe in this case the child should have been old enough to make better choices but in many cases the child isn't. How often have we seen a toddler randomly run out into the street or as above a blind or mentally challenged person? OK not all the time but it does happen.

Actually it couldn't have been me. I don't drive because amoung other reasons I don't want the kind of responsibility that comes with driving. I have a license in case of emergencies but I don't use it if I can help it.

Bet you were pissing yourself laughing really.

i have to disagree with ER. kids should not be on street cycling unless an adult is with them, if it's always the drivers fault. i am a cyclist in munich, if i cross the street with red light and car hits me, it is my fault. it's my risk.
kids and city traffic don't mix. as the kid is weaker component, it should stay out of it.

It is natural selection in action.

Legally speaking a child can not be held responsible for it's actions (rightly or wrongly so) but an adult can.

He was about 15 or 16. A big difference from a toddler playing near a busy street. (Who lets a toddler play near a busy street anyway).

There are different levels for kids of varying ages. For example, if a child under 6 damages property while the parent is not looking the insurance handles it differently than if the child were between 6 and 10 (I think it is 10). Case involved was kids throwing stones off a balcony when the dad went to go potty.

That is a big difference.

My personal opinion is that if the incident had involved an adult (personally I think a 16 year old should be considered an adult legally but that's another issue) the driver is still responsible financially and legally because his negligence caused the accident and as a driver you must at all times be aware of every possibility. I also think that the adult cyclists bears some responsibility legally perhaps in the form of a charge for reckless endangerment or whatever. But I think the charges need to be dealt with seperately.

Sounds like BMX boy couldn't tell the difference between his XBox and a real street.

Not sure how seriously this was meant, but that is exactly what it is.

does this mean i can paint massive teeth and tiger stripes on my car and round *hunting*?

I don't know what it is with boys and bikes today, on the way home (yes, home office time) a kid about 12? was on his bike, on the path, riding along towards effnerplatz (from leuchtenberg) and throwing individual sheets of paper up in the air (which were flying onto the ring in the construction zone). I don't know if it was advertising or his homework, but he turned off towards the arabella Ubahn / rosenkavalierplatz. Lots of other drivers shaking their fists and pionting at their heads at him - they were almost as dangerous.
If anyone finds one of those papers, let me know what was on it?

Look anything like this.

Hi Guys,

I just saw this thread and I thought I might write about what happened to me a few days ago. I actually need a good hint on how to deal with the whole thing, so let me first tell you what it's all about:

I was going along the street by bike (actually it was on this separated part of the pavement that is for bikers only), with moderate speed and I saw that there was a truck going along on my left hand side. Just a few meters in front of me there was a street on the right and I noticed that the truck was about to turn into that street. I assumed, of course, that the driver would see me and stop, but he did not. I realised that he wouldn’t stop in the very last second, so I used my brakes as strong as I could and that caused that I kind of sprang off the bike. My bike finished under the truck’s wheels and I hit the ground quite strongly. Luckily I didn’t break any bones; I just had a light concussion, big bruise on my knee that is still swollen and doesn’t seem to be going better, and a few scratches here and there. But, of course, before I knew I was fine, the ambulance took me to hospital and the police talked to the driver (who took the blame on himself). I was later asked by the police if I want to make an official complaint for the driver and put him to court, which I could not decide on on the spot and kept the right to think it over.
Now I simply don’t know what to do next. I would like to get money for a new bike, as the old one is just trash, and also get money back for the fees I had to pay at the hospital and at my doctor’s, plus for the medicines I had to buy. I just have no idea if I should talk to a lawyer or expect that the driver informed his insurance and they will contact me? Should I talk to th driver himself?
If any of you could give me a hint what to do in this case in the first place, I would really appreciate.

No idea about the money back - though I assume his insurance will cover a bit if not all of it.
Never ever assume that cars can see you - even if you are in the right of way. After all, cars and trucks are bigger than bikes.

I agree. Never rely on your right of way on a bike - I almost got splattered by a white van this week; I could see that the driver was on the phone and therefore distracted so I approached the crossing very warily.
IIRC, any accident that results in physical injuries is followed up by the police who may or may not decide that the fault is grave enough to hand the case over to the prosecuting authorities.
You said the truck driver already admitted fault so there should be no problem in getting all of your material damages (including any lost income) off of his/his boss's insurance. However, if you want immaterial damages e.g. for pain or mental stress you might want a lawyer's help. The insurance covers the costs within reasonable limits.
If the guy who caused the accident refuses to admit fault you should press charges for negligent injury and damages as some (ok, most) insurance companies refuse to reimburse the victim unless there is a criminal conviction.
And don't forget to wear a helmet!

@sarabyrd: in England a man in a white van is now a synonym for a bad driver!

Well, from now on I will definitely be over-sensitive while cycling... ;-) But I still don't know what to do, I mean to talk to the driver or to a lawyer first? Who normally informs the insurance about such an accident? Do the police do it or shall I assume the driver did it? And how do I learn about it?
I'm afraid if I ask a lawyer for advice, s/he will charge me horrendous money just to say a few words...
Would never expect anything like that to happen to me.

I'm no expert on these matters, so take this with a huge grain of salt (it is just a comment for you to think over). but I don't see any problem if you talk to the driver first. Of course, it would be best to approach the person with a good, "hey, let's work this out between ourselves" attitude. surely he doesn't want to have a bad mark on his driving record, and all you want is to get financial coverage for your out-of-pocket costs, right. there is a good chance of making a deal there; so why get a lawyer involved now - you can always do that later. and if it goes that route, then it looks good on you that you tried to resolve things out of court. well, at least that is how it would look in the US system.

hope you heal soon.

Thanks Chicago, that's sounds reasonable. I thought of doing it too, I was just afraid that if the polic is involved in that, I need to do everything officially. But on the other hand, if I don't contact a lawyer and solve it out of court, I can also ell the police the case is closed and the driver might be happy about it. I will try that.

That's an international standard. My no. 1 is the French white van that lost a ladder on the Nationale 7 right in front of us.
Kasia, was this a work truck or a driver owned truck? Did you get his insurance details? That's your contact, give them the license plate number and the date of the accident. If you don't have this info, get the "Tagebuchnummer" (registration number) off of the police station that recorded the accident and apply to see the files. As I said, he admitted that he's guilty so his insurance shouldn't hesitate to cough up. If you were in medical treatment be sure to release the doctors from their patient confidentiality so that they can inform the insurance company of the extent of your injuries and how long you were in treatment. Your health insurance can claim on the driver's insurance for these costs, even follow-up costs such as physiotherapy etc.
If you still have the receipt for the bike purchase, hand it in. Any clothes damaged beyond repair, claim for them. Any missed work if you are self-employed, charge it. Or have your employer claim it, if you are employed.

Sarabyrd, thanks for your suggestions. As far as the police told me, the truck didn't belong to the driver, it was rented. I have its plate number, but no information on the car's or the driver's insurance. I only know the car belonged to Hertz Autovermietung. Most probably I should contact them as well. I tried to call the driver last night and today, but no one answers the phone.
Anyhow, thanks for the info, it's very helpful!

my tupence worth. as he the driver was responsible for the accident. is insurance will pay for your lawyer in for his efforts in recovering damadges. so stop messing around and contact a lawyer. the get the info from the police and sixt. forget contacting the driver and doing chicagos way. your costs will be covered. i dont know if the police here are allowed to give you any legal advice, but maybe the rental company's insurance covers this, ask them. you may of course out of politeness ring the jerk off driver once more and ask him about his insurance.

PRESUMPTION, THE MOTHER OF ALL FUCK UPS.

i've seen the firebrigade at a junction hoseing off the blood from somebody whose last mental sentances involved the words "presumption - large moving thing - my right of way".

Rented van, easy as pie - contact Hertz. Make them do the work, all you do is provide info on your damages (material, physical and mental).

Well, well, it's a little early in the year for it to start - looked off my balcony onto my little 30 km side street in schwabing.



(Ok, picture of bicycle under mini taken at about 200 meters distance)

Not even a siren on the ambulance when it left.

A friend sent me this video - An awareness test. Quite amusing.

Good one! Thanks.
ff

A little lecture about the importance of being helmeted, to be read in a remorseful wiser-after-the-events tone:

I've happily cycled around Munich every day for nearly 3 years, remaining both accident and helmet free. Until recently: Within the space of less than 2 months I had two accidents both of which landed me in hospital with nasty injuries, the last one being a particularly unpleasant head injury which left me with a very nasty cut, concussion and whiplash.

In both cases I was cycling at a leisurely pace on routes I do every day. In the first case, a parked taxi pulled out without indicating or looking in his mirror and ran right into me. In the second case I was cycling slowly (having literally just got back on my bike after the first accident) on a newly gritted cycle path on a morning when temperatures had suddenly fallen loads. I must have hit a patch of black ice because the next thing I knew I was lying on the ground surrounded by helpful strangers. Apparently I was the second cyclist to fall on that patch that morning and they had gritted it after the first one thinking it would now be safe.

I've only been back on my bike once since and wore my shiny new helmet. I never actively decided not to wear one before, I just didn't think much about it and if the topic came I'm sure I said things like yeah, probably a good idea, then did nothing. After the first accident I said I'd DEFINITELY get one, but, stupidly and complacently, didn't do it urgently enough thinking it was really unlikely I'd have another accident so soon, especially not on my usual simple, short route; it could wait til I had more time at the weekend.

So, donning mammmy voice here, get yourselves helmets folks, don't put it off, accidents can happen anywhere anytime no matter how careful you are, no matter how familiar you are with the route, no matter how good a cyclist you reckon you are or how fast you think you react etc etc etc. It might be a bit of an annoyance but if I could turn back time...

Definitely with you on that one. As I posted here at the time, I had a bike accident last July which was not my fault. I was doing absolutely everything right - cycling in the correct direction on a cycle path that was part of the pavement, when somebody opened their car door directly in front of me. Luckily I "only" broke my elbow and required stitches in my knee. I had a helmet at the time, but had forgotten to put it on that morning, and couldn't be bothered to turn back and go and get it. I dread to think what could have happened if I'd landed differently...

I ride to work every day and wouldn't go without the helmet. I had an accident when I was younger once where my helmet was completely shattered, which would have been my skull without the helmet. In Australia it's compulsory to wear a helmet on the bike. I don't like laws like this, if you want to be stupid, you should have every right, but more people here should wear helmets.

and you dont even have to worry about not looking good.

for the stylish amongst us...The Hair-met

Hear hear, pity it took so much to literally knock the stupidity out of me. Since then I've been paying more attention to how many people wear helmets - not many. Almost all the kids I see do, but not many adults and fewer women than men as far as I can gather.

HELMETS folks!! (especially for people with long hair... not fun having it shaved off around the brand new cut so they can stitch your head back together and not fun still trying to get the dried blood out of your hair a week later (which in the meantime has left a lovely layer of dried red blood-dust everywhere) and not fun when they pull a few of the new little hairs out along with the stitches. Not fun having a random stubbly bit on the back of your head either. All not fun, HELMETS HELMETS HELMETS HELMETS!)

Eight years and counting - cycling every day, approx 30,000Km around Munich, never had an accident involving anyone else, only once came off on ice and suffered no injuries, but I wear a helmet every single yard I cycle. Every single yard because you never know when it will be your turn to get unlucky.

I wear a helmet for biking and skiing. So far, my bike helmet has not been put to the test (Ok, save for a couple of low hanging branches while mtn biking). My ski helmet is another story. I bought it because 1) I've had 2 concussions from skiing and 2) everyone in the States had them and it was cool. Since then, I've had my bell rung 2 or 3 times and I was damn glad that I had on my helmet because, without, surely another concussion or worse. So, if you think that helmets on the ski slope are for people who ski in the trees or ski racers, think again - each concussion was caused by my head connecting with the ski slope.

Helmets, helmets, helmets!

Skiing without a helmet is even more crazy than riding without one.

I know, I know. At least when you are riding a bike, you are less likely to get in an accident with another cyclist...but skiing...not so much. I good friend of mine (who is the Chief Crash Investigator for Sikorsky Helicopters and, thus, a safety freak) always said 'why do we not wear helmets when we ski but we would never ride without them?' I very good question.

I've been skiing for 37 years, been an instructor and ski patroller, and have never used one, ever. I recommend you learn proper technique and ski within your abilities, and you'll be fine. A helmet can actually be dangerous - get hooked on branches in trees, get snagged on someone else's gear, you name it.

I've heard the exact same arguments made against wearing seatbelts.

I never wear a helmet to ride a bike or ski, but they have got to be the most ridiculous reasons for not wearing one I've ever heard.

I was referring to skiing, where if you're skiing through the trees, a low-hanging branch snagging through a helmet strap could lead to a serious neck injury.

I agree, but what are your reasons?