Police problems regarding UK driver's licence

Hi All,

just thought I would tap into some wisdom from this board.
Our friendly local cops are giving me problems for not having a German driving licence, they claim I am driving illegally. I have a full UK licence (latest plastic card with photo type) and I have been under the impression for the last 5 years that this is valid in Germany. I have checked out some EU docs and I believe I am still correct as a directive covering this was passed in 1996. Therefore what the hell is wrong with these bloody cops??

Your problem is not with the Jerry oinks but with the British filth. Law passed in the UK a couple of years ago will slap you with a disproportionate fine for having an out of date address... and you can't have a German address on a UK licence. I know. I changed to a Jerry licence after I got warned on pickin' up a hire car from a UK airport 18 months ago.

It's clear from the German rules (here) that an EU license is valid in Germany until its' expiration, so the police should not be hassling you:
However, Sin is right - UK licensing rules require you to register your license to a valid UK residential address (German licenses don't need this), and you can be fined for not registering any permanent change of residence. BUT, they won't accept non-UK addresses, so officially at least according to the UK police you have broken UK law. This should be of no interest to the Germans, however...

I had this problem 10 yrs ago with the boys in green just tell em to fcuk off, cos they re wrong! They dont even know their own laws.

Yes, you're in the clear if a letter sent to the address on your license will ultimately find its way to you. I use my mother's address. You're in deeper shit if they send you a bill/fine/court summons/birthday card and you claim 'I didn't get it because I don't live at that address any more'.

I've still got my UK address on my (valid) UK pink licence, and I also hold a (valid) German pink license. Although I suppose they could cancel each other out as its only legal to hold one or the other.

The EU went out of their way to clarify that any valid license from one member state is valid in any other (i.e. the EU format license is no longer necessary).

I wrote to the DVLA to clarify the situation regarding the address some years back and they stated that this was a recognised issue, that there was no way to change the address and that it was still valid. If you search this forum, you should find the exact wording when I answered a similar post some time ago.

I seem to remember there was something about a time limit for trading your overseas licence into a German one - and then after that time you have to take a test over here?

I have no interest in switching my UK photo licence, but my wife has the older UK PINK version and not a photocard version - so are these still legal over here?

We have been here 2.5 years and don't wanna find out that she has to switch within 3 years or resit the test!!!

(Just to really confuse she is German and took her test here of course, but switched 15 years ago to a UK licence.)

When I moved over here I asked many questions about this and was always told that my UK (Pink) license was valid.
I believe that licenses issued outside of the EU are only valid for a certain time before they must be changed or a test re-taken, but not EU ones.

I wrote to DVLA (or whatever it'S called these days) and as people have already mentioned, they refused to issue me a new one as I now have a German address. But they did send a form which I can give to the German authorities along with my UK license to be exchanged for a German one.

I think its ok if its an address of a relative though probably

The official line from the EU:-

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/home/driving...aq/index_en.htm

...and specifically about Mutual Recognition (of Driving Licenses):-

I already have a driving licence issued by a Member State and I am taking up residence in another Member State. Will my licence be recognised ?

According to Article 1(2) of Directive 91/439/EEC, the licence must be recognised in the host Member State. Therefore, you are no longer obliged to exchange it if your normal residence is henceforth in a Member State other than that which issued your driving licence.

Will old driving licence models still be recognised ?

Yes, the old driving licence models have to be mutually recognised by the Member States.
Despite Directive 91/439/EEC having established a principle of mutual recognition of licences, the periods of validity of driving licences are not harmonised by Community legislation. This means that a very large number of different driving licences (more than 80 models) are still valid and circulating in the countries of the Union and of the European Economic Area. The majority do not ressemble the Community model.

About the DVLA and change of address... The law says that you can be fined for failing to notify DVLA of changes. It follows that if you write to DVLA, informing them of your change of address and your intention to exercise your right to retain your UK license under EC Directive 91/439/EEC, then you have complied with the law. The DVLA's lack of a procedure for handling this situation is not your problem. If you ask them how they intend to recored your new address in another member state, their response (in the negative) will be proof that you have complied with the letter of that law.

You are only supposed to hold one EU community license and should surrender any others. Apparently, a newly agreed EU license scheme aims to stamp out "driving license tourism" - i.e. where someone uses a license from another member state once their original license has been suspended or withdrawn.

If you have to renew your license for any reason (loss, expiry, etc.), the law requires that it is renewed in the EU state in which you are currently resident.

P.S. I can vouch that the German authorities have no problems sending fines to the address where the vehicle and it's owner is registered - they don't need the current driving license address. :-(

And if you receive penalty points in Germany they will be stored (and accumulated) in the German system, not the one in the UK or shown on your license (which has advantages if you have a UK license, as you can collect points in both countries independant of each other...)

So...following on from jg's comments...has anyone tried writing to the DVLA with a change of address to Germany? Was it just a straightforward letter...and how did they respond?

when i last asked the dvla by phone (about 18 mths ago) they said that as i didn't have a current uk address and since they couldn't change it to a german one, i could keep the last address in the uk. they don't have a procedure to handle this as jg says.

So, if I ask them to put my old UK address on the new licence will they post it to my German address, or what.?

Conversely, if I surrender my UK licence to the German authorities, will I be required to take a new driving test.?

Thanks for any informed replies.

Raffles.

If you have to change your license for any reason - loss, change of name, etc. - then you are obliged to get one in the EU country in which you are currently resident - i.e. Germany.

You don't need to take a test - they should swap your license directly and should transfer all the groups that your are entitled to drive. I have heard of some people having problems with not all groups being transferred, partly because there are sub-groups of vehicles which you can drive on a normal UK license which apparently don't exist in Germany.

Some pepople chose to use a UK relative's address to renew their UK license instead. Note that you have to have a photocard license in the UK now which means either sending off your passport or having the forms and passport checked at a post office (in the UK). The latter option means it is possible to make an application for a photocard license during a weekend visit to the UK.

Anyone applying for a change of address, change of license or replacement licence in UK has to complete a form where questions are asked about your permanent residence, if you have lived abroad and where, and when you returned to UK. Faling to answer these questions truthfully is subject to a hefty fine and possible license suspension. I'm not saying you can't do it, but beware if you do. If extended checks are made (e.g. on the electoral role) it may throw up a costly problem.

is it straightforward to exchange the UK license for a German one. Does the UK license need translating??

I would be interested in this information as well. I have really no intention of going back to the UK now, so I may as well get it swapped over.

afaik, we 'should' all have eu licenses (therefore no translating as it is an eu common document and agreement), therefore as jg says, it's relatively straight forward. the only thing is that changing from a uk eu license to a de eu license means that you lose a lorry driving allowance or something (not too sure exaclty but you do lose one of the lesser used allowances).

So, where do I have to go to have my licence changed for a German one.?

Raffles-

Depends where you live

Last time at an "allgemeine Vekehrskontrolle" I didn´t have my license with me, so I was given 4 days time to present my license to the police. When I showed it to them, the officer read my license and only got as far as A: any vehicle... he didn´t read EXCEPT... and just said "Alles klar, Sie dürfen alles fahren!"

I'm in the process of changing my UK license to a German one (I'm going to pick it up tomorrow). If you live in Munich you need to go to the Kreisverwaltungsreferat on Eichstätterstr 2. You'll need to take your driving license, a photo and your passport. It costs 35EUR and takes about 4 weeks. More details can be found at:

http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/kvr/strverk...8498/index.html

They will take your UK license and give you a provisional license that (you can only use in Germany) until your new one arrives.

I went with my german friend the other week to some building in Lörrach! have got no idear where i went and who we spoke to LOL

BUT she told me they were the peolpe who did the driving licences in this area??? I don´t know!

I was told and they checked it, that my UK driving licence was fully valid in Germany. I have the wrong address on my plastic card but they told me it did not matter as it was not a legal requirement to have a valid address on the licence in germany. The same applied to my husbands licence which is the old pink paper version, i took it along as well and made sure..

The problem from there point of veiw was if you went back to the UK and tried to hire a car then your address matters and you are then driving against the law.

So the end conclusion was, here my UK licence is legal in the UK it is NOT legal LOL

They would change it to a german licence and i think??? it was going to cost 30 Euro.

It was documented that i went along, and so now no one can moan at me. Unless i am in the UK
hope that helps
Tracey

Thanks to everyone for the advise but I have now sorted this problem.
I checked out The EU website and it clearly states since 1996 it is not necerssary to change any licence from another EU state.
I also had this verified from The British Consulate in Munich who kindly phoned the stupid copper directly to put him straight.
Sorted.

I had a big problem with this some years ago. When I moved here you ould keep your license for up to 3 years but had to change it to a German one before that time. When I arrived here, although I had my license in my pssoesion, I was actually banned. Once the ban ran out I bought a car and drove for a few years until one day I just happened to be stopped by the police. According to them I was driving illegaly as I didn't have a volid license when I arrived here and was subsequentially fined DM2,000 (which I had to pay to a local charity.) I debated this with a number of minor officials in various amts, nearly coming to blows once. In the end it was decided by them that it was a grey area and they had absolutely no idea what to do. Their suggestion was to wait until I got stopped by the police again and see what happens, brilliant eh? I drive about 45,000km per year and in the last few years have only been stopped once, in Kreuztal last year, where the officer looked at my license, saw it was British and sent me on my way. I have accumulated speeding fines and 3 points though with no ill effect. (Actually my license is both pink and green and opens out rather large.)

@darmstadt: see my previous post, when I was checked I´d already been living in Germany for over 12 years!

Just out of interest, does anyone know what they do with your UK license when you replace it with a German one? Do they keep it? Destroy it? Send it back to the DVLA?

If you leave Germany can you return the German license and get your old UK one back?

They "retain it to send back". In practice they do keep it, but almost certainly do not send it back or advise the DVLC they have replaced it, as most people have been able to declare theirs lost and get a replacement (fraudulent though that is). Your German license is equally valid long-term in the UK, but can also be exchanged in the same fashion.

@YL6: so why didn´t they retain my license?

Also a quick note... German driving licences are in German only and so if you rent a car in a country that is not German speaking then you are going to require an international driving licence too for the translation into english (you will need your original german licence with you too as international licence is not an actual driving licence but just a legal translation document)

I wouldn't mind getting my British license changed for a German one. The only thing is I swapped my Australian license for a British one when I was living in England.

On the back of my British license it says "AUS", which I assume is there because of the previous swap.

In Germany you are not able to swap an Australian license for a German one. Does anyone know if I will have any trouble swapping my British for a German one in this instance?

Tigress: This may be true in theory (I don't know) but in practice I've rented cars in the US, Australia and New Zealand on my German licence only.

Dunno. When/where did you change it? Did they invalidate it in some way? Is it a British license?
Rubbish. Although I have an international driving license, just in case, the only time I have needed it to supplement my German license was in the former USSR. The newer German licenses are practically all pictograms in any case, following a European model. I was once caught in a speed-trap in Massachussetts, and the cop was more than happy with my German license alone (without understanding a word), and rather than give me a fine spent a pleasant 20 minutes with me in the back of his car explaining American road-signs to me s-l-o-w-l-y... (I forgot to tell him I could speak English...)