Cultural differences between UK and Germany

I think you'll find the divider comment was from an American. We use dividers just as much in England .

My comment on food hygeine wasn't so much the preparation, but in the bugs that I see crawling all over the food everywhere from supermarket bakeries to fast food joints. Also dogs in restaurants. I know that out the back of British fast food places cleanliness can be terrible, and I've not had food poisoning once in Germany, but I never see flies crawling on the food in England. Here I have walked into bakeries and seen swarms of wasps crawling over the cakes.

Wasps in general seem to be a much bigger problem here, and I think it has something to do with the German attitude towards them. I sat down at a cafe in Coburg one summer afternoon, reached for the sugar pot, and saw that there was a wasp stuck inside of it, rolling about in the sugar. I took it to the counter and didn't even complain, just asked for another one. There were wasps crawling all over the cakes on the counter, of course. And the reaction? Tut tut tut! Such a fussy Englishman I was! It's only a wasp!

In England the town council will send a pest controller around to exterminate any wasp nests that you might find in your house, here I think it is considered cruel to kill a wasp nest.

But you are right, there are many awful things about England that I don't miss at all, and some of these things I often forget as I've not experienced them for a while. Not feeling safe walking around any town or city at night. Drunken yobs everywhere. Out of control teenagers. Terrible public transport, and a rail system so bad that it considers making it within 10 minutes of the scheduled time as being "on time". I do think the weather is better here, but it depends where you are. Frankfurt so far seems to be just like England.

I know what you mean about commuting on the train being a nightmare in the UK. For a year I commuted a short (45 minute) route to Oxford every day on a Virgin Rail line. For that year the company reported that it was late for more than two thirds of its journeys on that route (and you already know the definition of late). Cancellations were common, and the excuses were laughable. A regular excuse I heard the announcer make was "we are late because the train in front of us is late"!

Obviously you have never pass a newstand as that sort of thing seems to be forever on the front page of BZ.
I also speak to other mothers who actually watch German news and they are always going on about it.. Like: Did you hear about the little boy that was murdered, Did you hear about this and that...
I never watch the German news but I hear these stuff from everyone including my husband and as I said children have been nearly abducted at my daughter's school, a few of the parents even sued the school for lack of security some time ago.

Yeah, but everyone know that GG people can't drive - Gross Gefahr. Bit like OF - Ohne Führerschein

i see it now, its what you call a "bag lady"

But wasps are clean, compared to flies. Wasps only seek out clean food, whereas flies will go for anything! Sitting on cafe terraces Ive often had wasps divebomb my Apfelsaftschorle. They just love it. Trouble is, they climb in and then cant get out and so drown. Terrible way to go.

Thats what you use your "Bierdeckel" for. For stopping flies and wasps from diving into your sweet pool of food Golden nectar.

Morning,

With "plastic-bag-mania" I refer to the fact that they will give you a carrier bag for almost everything, even if you just buy a single pencil, they'll stuff it into a big huge bag! There just seem to be Tesco bags everywhere, hung up on the tree branches, on the side of the roads, and our cupboard is overflowing with them, because everytime we go shopping, we bring home a million new ones. You can actually take your used bags to Tescos now and leave them there to be collected for recycling. I think it's not such a bad idea to charge for bags, like they do in Germany.

One cultural difference is the obsession with faeces consistency. I thought it was just my wife's family but then my osteopath confirmed it (he's French and says it's the same with the French and their livers).

My wife seems to know exactly which foods will give you the shits or block your pipe (in her opinion anyway), and my father-in-law always makes a point of telling me wheher he has diorrhea or not, even though I told him it's probably a little bit too much information (he's pretty ill with diabetes so I just accept it now).

Ah, so that is what the shelves in the toilet are for!!!

Sounds like consumer heaven. Wish they would give you a free bag here in Germany. Instead you are made to feel like some sort of Umwelt-Schmutzfink if you ask for a bag.

But the germans arent as umweltfriendly as they like to think. When you order broadband dsl from T-Online/Telekom, they give you a truly massive cardboard carry-box which contains just one tiny router and a couple of CDs. I couldnt believe it, its just 90% packaging. Reminded me of that Mr Bean sketch where he unpacks a tiny portable TV out of a great big carton.

From www.tesco.com:

"In 2004, we were one of the first supermarkets to introduce degradable plastic carrier bags in our UK stores. These bags break down in as little as 60 days into biomass, carbon dioxide, water and mineral water, with no harmful residue, unlike conventional plastic carrier bags. An estimated 719 million degradable carrier bags have since been used by our customers, which means that the equivalent of 6,035 tonnes of non-degradable plastic has been offset."

Personally, I think this approach is better than assuming that once separated, plastics will be recycled.

I read the Berliner Zeitung every morning. I also pass news stands every day. I think you'll find that the BZ, in typical tabloid fashion, will run dramatic pictures of the same story for weeks on end on its front page. This does not mean that children are being abducted every day, it means that the BZ is trying to squeeze more sales out of a story by frightening people.

Likewise, other mothers talking about 'the kid who was murdered' does not mean there are a lot of kids getting murdered in Berlin. I personally can think of one case recently, when about a year ago a 16 year old killed a 7 year old. Can you remember any others?

Do you want their names and pictures?

Well, I’d like to have some idea of just how severe this epidemic of random child murders and kidnappings in Berlin is. It seems to be quite the topic in the pages of the BZ, and you say that the other mothers are all abuzz. It would appear that the media outlets I rely on have been negligent in their lack of information.

Agreed. I also rarely see anything on the Tagesschau or Heute about this problem, nor do they report it on SWR radio which I get to listen to for a minimum of 2 hours daily on my way to and from work.

I could understand if Sky News or the BBC don't report about it - but I am very surprised that a lot of the German media, with the exception of the BZ, don't report about it.

A bit off topic but just to add my bit to the comments above: we had several incidents here of a young man attacking and twice trying to rape two elderly newspaper-ladies in the wee hours of the morning. Luckily for them they managed to fight him off, unfortunately one got beaten up in the process and ended up in hospital for several days.

The public was only informed after a child was attacked on her way to school. At the information evening that followed, it turned out a third woman had been attacked in the early hours of the morning on her way to work. After the two initial attacks, the powers to be had decided not to go public because they didn't want the community to panic. Thanks.

A drunk driver hits a woman pedestrian, her British boyfriend sees the incident, drags fat suited business man from his BMW and smacks him right across the bonnet of his car.
Polizei turn up.
German Business man wants to sue boyfriend.
German Business man has witnesses.
Polizist says that Boyfriend had just cause!
German gets loud.
Polizist reminds the drunk driver that he is the Bürgermeister!
Nothing in the papers... zilch.
.
.
.
The Brit walked without charges being brought, out of court settlement for the woman

Afraid thats the way things work here. There is zero accountability for people in senior positions - whether they are in public life or in business.

Unfortunately the sense of moral outrage that a Brit feels at reading something like this is particularly British. I recall Pres Blair elucidating on the defining characteristics of British - and one of them (which I have to agree on) is an inbuilt sense of fair-play, much more so than other nations

As severe as London or any major European city. Unless somehow the German race is incapable of producing pedophiles. Now if you don't agree with this just leave it at that...

Fear of crime is worse than crime itself. Obviously not for the individual who is a victim of crime, but for society as a whole. Fear of crime also increases crime - and that's not a fact, it's my opinion.

Jean-Pierre

Agreed. I recall reading a report last year about German crime. People perceived that crime was on the increase whereas the actual crime statistics were on a dwonward trend. And the report blamed the sensationalist reporting of crime in the media.

I have been following discussions an a message board for Germans living in Ireland. They constantly talk about pet hates in Ireland. For many of them, there are no differences between living in a third world country and in Ireland. Why are they still there I ask?!?! I live in Germany and love it but i do hate some things. My extensive list of pet hates about Germany can be found on their website. I was tired of them doing all the complaining about ireland, so I told them my what i think Lets see how they react. And do you agree with my pet hates!!!

http://www.irlandforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=12904

I could have written that list myself!!! Very spot on! One of the things that got me down the most is the staring, I swear I feel like the Elephant Man, Why do they need to stare and make you feel so inadequate, the amount of times I have ended up in a fight because of this!
Well, there's no point repeating all the rest, you have pointed out some of my own pet hates already.
But unlike you I don't love Germany and I do not want to be here, the only reason I am here is because my husband is German, we tried living here 11 years ago, I was so depressed all the time that after a year he himself decided we had to get out of here as I would end up jumping out of the window if we stayed so we went to London and problem solved.
After 10 years we came back to Germany because he thought we wanted to be close to his family again, I came literally against my will and now after being here for a year we are planning to leave the country again soon because this time is not only me but our 11 year old daughter (German by birth) that just can't 'settle' here.
I agree is boring for the ones that do like it here to hear others complaining all the time but unlike some other expats I know here I know what the solution is: Leave Germany!
I know a couple of very nice Brits here and although they have been in Germany for nearly 20 years they don't speak German and hate everything here, that's no life, I don't want to end up like that so I guess the only solution is if you don't like the country you live in, leave! Whether you are German, Brit or any nationality...
Of course a different matter is, even if you do like the country you are in, you have the right to question when something isn't right, the same as any native can...

20 years living in Germany and dont speak German!! Well, thats hardly integrating is it? In that situation its not surprising they have a neg attitude towards the country they find themselves living in .

i find no matter what i buy from a chemist, i always get a free pack of tissues, got a cupboard full of them.

i do like the fact if you buy painkillers they always offer a you a glass of water so you can take them straight away.

It pissed me off, that i can only buy painkillers from chemists, when i first came here and could not speak a word of german, it took a a few miles and many petrol station visits before i realised i had no chance and had settle for the alcohol alternative therapy method.

Lunchtime. Why do Germans refuse to eat anywhere but the canteen? And why do theyalways have to have lunch with a different person each day, booked up for the next 3 weeks. I like to get out the office, grab a sandwich, not speak German, check out the totty on the street.

bargals over here are definetly better , mustn't grumble.

ex brits over here are definetly better too.

don't know about the culture clash coming during the world cup, its gonna be fund seeing the old polizei deal with it.

I heard that whole villages around Baden Baden will be taken over by england fans. the locals won't know what's hit them ...

..although it's probably an empty Stella bottle

Dont get me going that, the estimates are getting more stupid by the day, around the bars here last count was expecting 16,000 english fans here in Karlsuhe.

They are going to put up 22 metre t.v. screen outside the schloss here, so will be watching the bottles bounce of that, its the rebounds i'll be scared of, i can see a culture clash coming. I hope they behave themselves, i found the police here are a bit too uncompromising, and i think will find it hard dealing with our drunken lot

If there is an Enlgand-Argentina quarterfinal in Berlin I may consider getting the hell out of town. I hope the police are restrained, but I'm not confindent of that.

I think it's a bit funny that people get riled up that Turks or other 'ausländer' (and they always mean the dark, poor kind, don't they) don't integrate fast enough, but a Brit can live in his own isolated world for 20 years without learning German and nobody is too bothered about it. I pass through Kreuzberg and Neuköln every day on my way to and from work. I'm amazed that 9 times out of 10, when I see Turkish teenagers together on the train they are speaking German. When I'm with other English speaking people I always speak English, and nobody cares. In the rare instances when I hear Turks speaking Turkish, I can see all the Germans on the train tut-tutting.

Diana: I'm sorry you feel so uncomfortable here. That really is awful, and I image it is that much worse with a child. I can understand that you would want to get out in that case. good luck.

Well Rc just make sure you don't tip your beer down the back of someones trousers!!

@Leky

You've got me laughing again, god i am never gonna forget that.

Well when they are staying at home mums that never had to work because their husbands have a good job, their kids are at a Brit school, they only watch sky, all their friends are Brits, etc... There's no need/oportunity for them to speak German as their whole world is in English. I could do the same, I thought about it for a bit but I don't really think that's a good way to live and my husband has realised is just NOT going to work for us, it was only a temporary thing anyway.
The good thing is that he became so unaccostumed to Germany while in London that he complains quite a bit too and will have no problem leaving the country.
One good thing I have found in Germany... The Britboard!

Hi kennya

I'm German, and originally from Gross-Gerau. Beside that I do know Nauheim quite good. Currently I'm in Glasgow to make my LL.M.

Just some suggestions in regard to British food: You will find a lot in the big Asian store in Büttelborn. Think it is called "Choudry Asian Food"? It's huge and you will find most things that you miss there.

Besides that the Wal-Mart in Gross-Gerau stocks a lot of cheeses like cheddar, chester and so on.

If you need further help: just drop me a line!

Cheers,
Andy

Christ Almighty...will everyone stop fecking moaning about how "crap" Germany is please. Just feck off back to the U.K if it's so shite. Getting on my tits.

Oddly enough it was when my daughter was born that I did start getting to know more local people and practiced my German more. For a start the neighbours who had barely spoken in 3 years couldn't resist a quick look in the pram and felt they had a safe topic of conversation with us, and the typical German reserve seemed to melt away when I turned up at babyswimming without a spare nappy. I agree with you Diana about the expat bubble - it's no way to exist. For me getting to grips with the language made all the difference but I am living in area which is generally quite Auslander friendly.

Here is a short list of what to avoid in Germany. Learn it by heart and you will have a wonderful time.
Beer tents, Carneval, East Germany, Stau, Rote Wurst mit Senf, Alcohol, the Heat, and jokes about the war.
What to remember: Always bring empty bottles to the Bottle Bank. Do not forget your Kehrwoche. Drive on right hand side of the road. Try to get a German Foster Mum and ask her to cook for you and do your laundry.
To be continued...

A few differences i noticed when i first arrived :

No minimum wage. I've worked for 6.68euro an hour and seen jobs for 5 euro an hour. That came as shock.

400 euro jobs too. Big surprise at that one and the sheer amount advertised too.

The length of Ausbildung for various jobs. Kik have recently been advertising for trainee staff. 800 a month for 18 months i think. Have you been into KIK? What on earth takes 18 months to learn? The most complicated thing appears to be the till as they don't have to order stock from competing suppliers they just order from their own warehouse! My fiancee completed a 3 year Ausbildung for the Deutsche Post (including a stint on a picket line once) to deliver post. Apparently they had to learn about every product and service including prices for everything just in case someone asked them on their round. Bit different form the UK there! Oh, and when she'd finished they told her the only job they had was in Kiel!!

Cigarette and sweet machines on the street too. Our village has about 1000 residents and we have at least 4 cigarette machines dotted around. The low cost of them compared to the UK was surprising.

Having to buy almost anything medical from a chemist and the number to choose from in even a small place as well.

People standing waiting for the lights to change before crossing regardless of whether any traffic is coming. My fiancee tells me that it's to set a good example to any children around. Perhaps, but isn't that the responsibility of the parents to make sure their offspring are capable of negotiating such places before allowing them out on their own?

On the driving front:

Tiny road signs that are very difficult to see before you're on top of them. No problem when you know the way but a nightmare for those that rely on them to arrive at where they're going.

Not being thanked for allowing someone out of a junction,lane etc can be irritating but i've had that plenty of times in Britain too.

Indicating to go around a 90 degree bend even though the road goes that way but not indicating when driving straight on but leaving the road for another!

As above but not indicating their intention on roundabouts. I realise that they're taught that (i believe) but it just adds to the confusion as roundabouts are supposed to speed up the flow of traffic which clear signalling would acheive.

Pedestrian crossings only a cars length from a roundabout!! The two local towns near us both have this. Is this normal? It seems an almost intentional way to get people hit. Designed by a personal accident lawyer maybe? It's not a problem for me but i've seen a few close shaves from drivers going too fast to stop in time that could well have been avoided if they were placed a little further along the road. Not to mention the possibilty of being rear-ended when you do stop!

Lack of white lines or white lines on very minor roads but not elsewhere which leads to people driving down the middle of the road towards you.

7 kmh when driving around a bus with it's warning lights on at a bus stop for cars in both directions. I only found that out looking through an ADAC members magazine.Seems reasonable to me that one but then i don't have too many to go around usually.

Tailgating on icy roads just because they have winter tyres on. Not funny at the speed they travel either.

Tight bends before the slip road to join an autobahn thereby making it difficult to reach a reasonable speed to join. I'm used to the nice long ramps from Blighty i'm afraid!!

I hope this doesn't come across as moaning but just some differences that have taken awhile to adjust to for me.

On the other hand you get more exits/on ramps for motorways than the UK. While this makes the Autobahn intrinsically more dangerous (UK motorways are the safest in Europe?) I appreciate the better access.

Many, many years ago plastic bags in Germany were free!! Supermarkets had huge piles of them at the tills, all you did was grab what you needed and off you went. A couple extra for the waste bin as well.

They started charging for them because they were beginning to pollute the cities and countryside - bags were everywhere.

Consumer heaven??? came and went.

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/german/abinitio/whygerm1.html

sums it all up I reckon

Yes, it is. The reason for this is the lower crime rate. Germans don't expect crimes everywhere.
I have been living in UK for a few months only, and I have not yet decided whether to believe UK being unsafe or the British being hysterical about crimes. Personally, I hope the latter.

A few weeks ago, I had a chat with an Englishman who used to work in Zurich and Munich. He told me how strange it was to see women on their own at the U-Bahn and in the streets at around midnight. Locals told him that Zurich and Munich respectively are not dangerous for women, but he refused to believe it. I don't know why. Can anyone explain this to me?

It is my opinion as well, Jean-Pierre !

To be frank, I think that someone who is determined to commit a serious crime, will do so anyway, and you will not keep them from doing so.
So what is this fear, this anxiety good for? It is good for nothing, takes freedom and good feelings from your life.
It makes sense to correspond to the actual risks, but not to the risks at other places or to the sensational stories in the media, especially in these reality-tv shows which show US-crimes in German tv.

Look at English and American cities. Does anyone really thinks Germany has as many crimes as these countries? Why should I be anxious to go for a swim in a German river? Because there are crocodiles in Australian rivers? It is not stupid just to jump in the water assuming nothing will eat me. It is not careless to walk in the streets at night either, even if anyone might have been assaulted anywhere hundreds of miles away the other day.

What the media doesn't say is that at the same time when a crime happens hundreds, thousands or ten thousands of people have no problem while doing similar things, walking on their own at night a.s.o.

"Why should I be anxious to go for a swim in a German river? Because there are crocodiles in Australian rivers? It is not stupid just to jump in the water assuming nothing will eat me. It is not careless to walk in the streets at night either, even if anyone might have been assaulted anywhere hundreds of miles away the other day.

I spoiled my punch line.

I meant to say:
Why should I be afraid of going for a swim in a German river? Because there are crocodiles in Australian rivers? ...

Sorry, I have to practice a lot more English knowing that I make stupid or embarrassing mistakes. Last time I wrote in his forum, I mixed up whine and wine.

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents says:


Here's a whole page about how easy it is to drown:
http://www.rospa.org.uk/waterandleisuresaf...watersafety.htm

Ideally you should stay away from any kind of water, including baths and ponds.

Fence off the sea I say.