Problem with violence at a school in Berlin

Did you see about the school in Berlin in which the teachers asked the local authority to step in and do something about the violence? Apparantly it has quite a lot to do with foreign children making up something like 70% of the school's population. I was wondering what you lot thought about it all?

The media has hyped this out of all proportion. Yes, there is a problem, but there has been very little intelligent discussion and a lot of 10 page sensational spreds in the newspapers.

Its not the Kids that cause the real problem, its the school system here.

If you go to a Gymnasium school, you are part of accepted society, and you will more than likely go to third-level education, and end up with a white collar job.

If you go to Realschule, then you will become a plumber, builder, baker, or something else in the blue collared sector.

If you are sent to Hauptschule you are doomed. you have the worst label imagineable, and you can thank your lucky stars if you get a job as a bin man.

Its a dark-age system, and it needs to be scrapped. Kids should be given a chance to decide on their own futures in a one-school system, as opposed to the current three-school sytem currently in operation here which decides their fate from day one.

I noticed the government is trying to smoke-screen the real problem, and trying to make out that its a language problem. Sad.

Where does the Gesamtschule fit in to this synopsis Maisflocke? Is it more like a comprehensive?

I really do not know! I find the current system to complex and non-workable. Why they need so many types of school in this country is a mystery to me..

Wikipedia gives this information:

* Hauptschule (the least academic, much like a modernized Volksschule) until grade 9.
* Realschule (formerly Mittelschule) until grade 10.
* Gymnasium (High School) until grade 12 or 13 (with Abitur as exit exam, qualifying for university).
* Gesamtschule (comprehensive school) with all the options of the three "tracks" above. "

Mais

Your evaluation is not entirely true (ref likely employment prospects).

Gymnasium does not entitle you to go to University, the Arbitur does (as you said). The reality is, that there is a significant proportion of kids attending Gymnasium who later are either 'demoted' to a Realschule or do not get good enough marks in the 10th class to enter the Oberstufe (to get the Arbitur and go to Uni). These kids get the Realschulabschluss and get the same kind of employment opportunities as the upper-half of Realschule kids.

Realschule is not only for butchers, bakers and candlestick-makers. I've seen plenty of adverts to train as an 'Anwalt' or mid-level office jobs if you have good results in the Realschulabschluss. Normal result for Realschule I would put at mid-level office jobs.

For Hauptschule, it's certainly true that your prospects are not so good. Manual work or no work.

I think that the problems in Berlin are a self-made problem (mostly by the structure of the German school system).
As Mais pointed out, your prospects after Hauptschule are pretty dismal. At 10 they're marked as losers. The kids know this, so why should they give a ****?

Wie immer, alle Angaben ohne Gewähr

Individuals do and of course have the chance to change their labels and jump ship, my opinions are of course pretty general and do not represent the whole scenario. However, most people who achieve something better after Realschule are more the exception to the rule.
There is a certain high amount of snobbery in Germany when it comes to Gynasium & Realschule.
80% of the people I work with have been to Gymnasium & university... as soon as they find out someone did not "study" general opinions and respect towards that person change dramatically

Agreed. The problem is not tracking, though, the problem is limited points of entry into the top track.

It would be madness to put the brightest students in a classroom with the, uh, not brightest. All that does is hold kids back.

The trouble with the German system is that moving up from one level to another is so difficult, so as Adi says, you tell a young child that they can look forward to a life as a cleaner and that it is nearly impossible to climb up to a high level of education.

That's far too young to be making decisions like that, and it makes it too difficult for a poor student at age 12 to develop into a good student at age 17 and go to university.

Completely agree. And with Ami. On paper, the system is flexible but in reality... it's a different story.

It's been very interesting doing this course I'm on at the mo. The first thing most people have asked me (we all come from different backgrounds, most are "umschuler" or on a Arbeitsamt-paid "weiterbildung") is whether I studied or not... they do seem to be very keen on making distinctions between a normal "ausbildung" and a degree... but I did my degree 10 years ago, so it's completely not relevant to what I do now, is it?
All v. snobby. Makes me want to tell people I'm a qualified binman...

This country needs one big kick up the arse where education is concerned. Ridiculous school hours etc etc...ooooh I could rant on but won't bore you!

Back to the school violence:

Well according to my morning paper, journalists, among them Spiegel TV and ZDF apparently paid off students to fight for the cameras.

That's what I mean by overblown in the media.

As for the education system as a whole, just one more example of innate conservatism and inflexibilty in Germany society. The source of nearly all of this country's problems, if you ask me.

Just one more example of innate conservatism and inflexibilty in Germany society. The source of nearly all of this country's problems, if you ask me.>

Unlike the liberal good old U S of A, eh?

When this story first came out I read many articles trying to find out what sort of violence was occurring. Was it pupils attacking teachers or one another, were weapons involved or not? I couldn't find a single article that described what was actually happening in the school. zero information and tons of hot air.

I did learn that the head of the school had been off sick for 10 months and there was no deputy head. It sounds to me like it should be the local education authority that should be the focus of criticism here and not necessarily the kids.

Not really germane to the discussion, but yea, if you mean liberal in the classical sense, yes, unlike the liberal good old U S of A.

The billboard advert at my bus stop this morning:

Tokio Hotel Kämpft gegen Gewalt an der Schule!

That ought to clear everything right up.