America or Munich - where would u rather live?

Hello all. First time poster. Just discovered the site and love this forum. Been to Munich many times and I love this city. However, I am still not sure if I love this city because I have only been a vistor so far or if I am genuinely bored with the US having lived there most of my life. I am seriously contemplating moving here. I dont need a job to live here because I am in a unique situation to be able to earn exactly same amount of money no matter where I am in the world (as long as I have the internet). So tell me long time munich residents, how is to actually live here? If you lived in the US in the past, how do you compare it? Thank for all your feedbak. Look forward to taking part in other discussions.

I personnally can´t offer any valid advice as I´ve only been here for 4 months and I´ve never been to the USA.. however...

What have you got to lose? Life is an adventure and living how and where you´ve always known is comfortable (and can be enough for many) but why not take the risk? Change is never easy but the payoff can be great.

Man, if you could live anywhere, why not Koh Samui, Thailand or Northern Queensland, Australia or some little house in the South of France.. Geez...

I´ve been here a wee bit more than 2 years and would´nt have it any other way.
One day when my husband and I start a family, we´ll do it here. I´ve been back to the states a few times since and when I´m there, after a few days I can´t wait to go home...to München. I do think though that coming here as a visitor or tourist is a lot different than living here. In the beginning it was a bit hard for me to adjust to the food, the customs, the language, the mother-in-law, but you know, you adapt, you grow, you open your mind... and you´re a better person for it.
Go for it!

i am an american and i am happy with munich. it's clean, safe, yes a Toytown, but you don't need a car: public transport is top. there are great bars and restaurants, has the single largest city park in the world (english garden), you're a hop, skip and a jump to the alps, in 4 hours you're at one of the best wind surfing spots in middle europe, paris is a night-train ride away, prague is only 5 hours east... i can go on!

and since most americans never leave their back yard, i'd say what the hell, do it. people will think you're on vacation the whole time (something about being in europe), but you can work hard and play hard too.

oh, and there is nothing like driving 220 km/h on the autobahn, albeit 160 km/h is normal! not only was i speeding when i was back home in tx this christmas, i was a horrible tail-gater.

A bit about my experience: I was doing some international travel for work and really enjoyed it, but I'd climbed about as high on the corporate ladder as I could for my age and I was starting to get bored. As a New Yorker born and raised, I also began having some issues living in Houston. These things came to a head when I was offered a job in Munich, and obviously I accepted the position.

I find it hard to believe you could be bored with living in the US; it is probably just your current location (which is where btw?). As for comparing Munich to the US as a whole, you just can't. The US is so incredibly geographically and culturally diverse that the comparison is apples and oranges (Germany is about as Geographically diverse as the Dakotas e.g. not very). I would instead compare Munich to similar sized US cities like Austin, Nashville, etc. Is Munich better than those cities? No. But Munich by nature of its location has different things to offer than Austin or Nashville.

Do I like it here? Usually. More times than not. The beauracracy, ubersocialism, xenophobia, lazy workers, and lack of service get on my nerves. Fortunately, those are compensated by a great public transportation system, great beer, bucolic countryside, proximity to lots of places, etc. I am happy with my move and I intend to be here for a while.

Hope this helps with your decision (I say do it!).

well I've been here for almost 5 months now. I still miss California quite a bit, but no regrets on deciding to move here for a while. Like you I think, I was starting to feel a little bored with the US (even though I've lived in NYC, DC and Virginia, as well).

The downside as I've seen/felt so far: If you don't speak German, or live with or have a significant other here who does, it can be really, really stressful in the beginning. A lot of simple things that take you 5 secs to do in the US can take you 10 times as long here - bank accounts, shopping, setting up your phone, etc. Then just dealing with the language on a daily basis can get you down sometimes as the weeks go by. [and before anyone starts crabbing at me about it, YES, I am taking lessons. Immersion in the beginning and as many as I can and still work the long hours associated with my job].

That said, I have no regrets, the upside far outweighs the downside, and I would definitely recommend you try it! As you know from being here, it is a wonderful city. Absolutely beautiful, fun, central to Europe so a great base for travel, and endless possibilities for things to do (the beer is a given - I still can't get over how much better it is here). And I have found the people - natives as well as the people I've met from this site - to be very very friendly. [Yes, you read that right, Germans too. I'd take a grouchy Bavarian over a grouchy New Yorker any day of the week.]

Hope that helps!

OK, been here in Munich for almost 3 years now. Three years ago, while trying to decide whether or not to move - the same thing kept popping into my mind - 'Why not?' - you probably have nothing to lose. You can always go back if you don't like it, right? Having lived in New England all my life, I can tell you that living in Munich has been one adventure after another. My friends always write in their emails 'so, what exotic location are you off to this weekend?(after trips to Spain, Portugal, Prague, etc). Plus - hello - 6 weeks of vacation!!! I don't think I could ever go back to just 2!!! Now I wonder how I did it!!!

Everything is so close - Italy in 2.5 hours - the Alps - that needs no explanation, Paris, London(a short flight), Prague, Amsterdam...yada, yada, yada.

Yes, you will miss your friends and family for awhile - but it gives them a great place to visit!

I respectfully disagree In New York, people generally leave you alone unless you piss them off. Here, it is common for total strangers to walk up to you and comment on how you're not riding the escalotor correctly.

I'm with DW - being called an asshole for just crossing the street when the light was red??? If that happened to me in the U.S. I would have pulled out my gat and blown the mofo away...or whatever it is that you do in the U.S.

@ DW - remember - rechts stehen, links gehen.

DW, how many times do I have to tell you how to ride the g-d escalator properly???

So long as you hold your gat SIDEWAYS and say something like, "Oh yeah? Let's see how well you cross the street in a wheelchair BEEOTCH!" before you actually start dropping shells.

Reminds me of this game:
http://www.gopostal.com/

Of note: One of my good friends is German-American. He grew up in Frankfurt and Toronto, moved to New York during high-school, to Indiana for college, but also interned in Munich for a few summers. To my surprise, he didn't really care for Munich and despite a full-time job offer he moved back to the US (he currently resides in Connecticut).

Different strokes I suppose.

Never have I read a post of such clarity. You can go ANYWHERE, and you are choosing Germany?!?!? All and any of Presh's suggestions beat the hell out of Munich.

I'm an american and have been here a year and a half. When I first moved here I absolutely hated it. There are several reasons why I didn't like it, but I don't feel like complaining now. However, things have changed quite drastically for me. I really like it here now. It does take some getting used to at first, but once you do it is great.

It's a daft question. You simply can't compare somewhere the size of the US with Munich. Absolute nonsense.

You're thinking of moving, you say you've been to Munich lots of times and loved it, then there shouldn't be a question, especially not one as daft as that which you asked.

NIKE - Just do it!

I think it depends upon what you want from a city.
Munich is beautiful, rich, safe, clean, sound, full of bavarians, near the mountains, wishing it were cool and lovely place.
It's not exciting, friendly, dirty or gritty, cutting edge, near the sea (but does have lakes), cool or right for me.

What about the million and one other cities in the world? Check them out as well!

i know a few germans who were hell-bent on going to live in the u.s. once there, they say they can never come back. the reasons they give are cause they have more money there! they can afford a 2-story house with porch, patio, two-car garage, basement and a half acre of land for the price of a 3-room apartment in any big city in germany.

they'll complain the americans are superficial, materialistic, they have to drive everywhere, have no job security and no insurance, but the freedom and space they have is well worth the price.

and i'm with ya kitkat, i'll give up a lot of my freedoms for my 30 days of vacation a year and the right to have my job back after 3 years if i decide to stay at home and take care of my kid.

it's a great adventure, do it for two reasons.

1. you only live once, this is not a dress rehersal and sitting in your wheelchair when your 70 saying "if only", is just going to piss of the nursing staff.

2. and as someone said to me before i up and left england for munichs fair climes, you can always go back.

my reasons for being/staying
here you can work in the morning and ski in the afternoon. (ah i miss winter already)
here there a hundred reason to enjoy a drink.
beer gardens are worthy of the nobel peace prize, they are unique.
Bavaria is so unPC that you can relax your brain a bit more.
and just look outside the office window...



sunshine!!!

That's because they are all still bloody neanderthals!

no, the neandertal is near köln. if anything they are isartals

Are you a drug dealer ? If so I would like some free drugs please... I'm PMing u my address. Thanks.

Why not, start some travels!!!

no sorry, you'll have to go through your normal channels

just because i ONCE do not slag of the germans doesn't mean i'm on drugs, or able to supply them cheaply to anyone.

anyway barvarians are not germans. here just confussed austrians.
i work with alot of zugereister, and i much prefer the subtle exclamaitions and ways of our pleasant alpine hosts.

I shouldn't post here as I am german and I love Munich!
I recommend Munich to everybody!
But of course it depends what is important for you.

Again its the ppl not the location.
A lot of complaints are about the locals.
The Bavarians (I am one of them) are actually lovely and friendly, laid back and helpful. yes I know... I get battered for saying that now.
right, they are not really tolerant on the other handside. Munich is a Toytown or as we call it the "onemillíoninhabitants village". So village rules apply.
People watch you to do everything right and will have no problem to approach you to tell you that ur not doing it right.
german is a harsh language and especially Bavarian is a harsh dialect.
bavarians are also very loud in generell. So bavarians talking to you with not really a friendly face on can be pretty intimidating.
And there are many many rules here to take care of
But as most of them stick to the rules, there is not much trouble. As keydeck mentioned before that Germans actually back off as soon as u say anthing to them.
So peace is safe

Once you actually clicked with them, they would give you everything.
Even the old "bitchy" lady from next door.
Bavarians are very very direct and that might be strange for someone from the US as we do think that many Americans hence to be superficial.
I know many Americans and i know they are nice and friendly and clever, so I will not say anything bad about them.

Life in Munich in generell is pretty easy going though. peaceful, I would say.

And in Munich nearly everybody speaks a bit of english and of course the language might me a barrier but when ppl see you try they are happy to impress with there pieces of english. (And u still have Toytown to start a rant, if you're really pissed off about something) It is not like Spain or France where ur lost without the native language.

There are 1001 advantages, so just move here, you can always go back.
And you will not regret having ever come here.


Munich actually is High tech location no 1 in Germany.
But is very hidden. I love Munich because u see business men with there laptops sitting in the beer garden with a mass or just coffee or water in front of them.
Munich is the city with most science and technology companies.
You don't have industrie here. Thats why you hear birds and church bells on a sunny sunday morning in the centre of town.
Munich has hundreds of hidden treasure in the centre, left alone the outskirts or the surrounding area.

As always when u move abroad it is different than home. And you will have a hard time to get used to ALL things.
But I know many expats who came here for travelling and they love to be here even though they are making their jokes... (and mostly it's not even funny but the truth )

@ gideon

Nah man , I was referring to the original poster - lots of dealers now operate from remote locations using resenders and other nifty tricks to ensure that they can earn huge buckets of money as well as travel at their leisure - it's a nice set-up I can tell ya - a lot of the so-called "online pharmacies" are just that.

@parnell

sorry my missunderstanding, but maybe the guys liggit, not everybody out of america does nasty things. some are actualy kind.

A little off topic - sorry.
I saw a little chart in Newsweek that illustrated the response to the question:
"Are people from your country better off if they move to the US?"

Don't know how many were polled, but the answers from different countries were interesting.

U.K.
Just over 40% Better
About 35% Worse
About 10% Neither

Pakistan (not wonderfully pro US)
About 28% Better
About 27% Worse
15-20% Neither

I somehow think that the 27% who think they would be actually worse off in the states are somewhat clouded by their anti Bush sentiments

France (Pretty anti US of late)
25% Better
10 - 15% Worse
60% Neither

Germany
12/13% Better
15% Worse
60%+ Neither

I would like to see the results of such a question before the Afganistan/Iraq stuff happened. I don't know if Germany is just very very anti US, and the respondants let that affect their decision, or if it is due to the blinkered German nation refusing to accept that country is anything other than the most perfect place on the planet.

Because obviously only anti-Americans wouldn't want to live in the US.

"Germany for the Germans" should work both ways I reckon.

My point actually being that anti US sentiment would negatively affect their responses to the question.

Does this mean financially? Or in general?

Had to be in general. If they meant financially, there wouldn't really be much point in having a poll (for most countries at least). Only people with specialist jobs like German to French translators, or German tax lawyers would not be better off financially. On second thought, even they would probably find something else and still be better off. That being said, financial well being is only a small part of general well being...

I actually found this to be the attitude of Americans more than Germans.

A few times when I was in the US and was asked if I like the US better than Australia and I said "Australia", they were astounded - admittedly though, none had been to Australia and so had no idea what they were missing out on!!!

I find that Germans and Americans essentially have the same attitude. The difference is that the Americans have no qualms about telling you how they feel whereas the Germans tend to keep it to themselves but nevertheless DO think that Germany is the best place in the friggin world. When pressed hard or extremely drunk, they will admit it too. I'm talking about stereotypical Americans and Germans here of course...

@Moodoo
Haha!! Of ALL the places in the world you could move to, you are choosing for Munich... This makes me laugh!!

Isn't that true of most people who haven't really spent time abroad?

I had the same experience in the UK - people who had travelled a bit could chat about the positive and negative aspects of the place, whereas people who hadn't seemed to be really offended by the idea that it wasn't the best place on Earth.

Its not? Your fucking kidding.

If you can travel and still work/get paid then do it. Spend a couple of years here, then move around.


Right, why would they be astounded when they haven't even been there? It's like 95% of people who say that they hate opera admit to never having gone to one.

@ gideon

first post was a piss taker of sorts - i kno loads of decent Yanks - far more than negative types from that country - and in any case I wasnt saying drug dealers were good or bad - there is a decent argument there - albeit dependent upon the particular types of drug supplied.

@parnell
i also was taking the piss, maybe the guy is really dodgy? who knows?

Even if he is not a drug dealer, there aren't that many other jobs that let your earn money just being on the net.
Day-trading is one of them. That makes him dodgy.


Oh and if I may: I have travelled a bit, lived in the US for one and in Spain for half a year, and I have never found a people to be as self-critical as (educated)Germans are. So I would like to humbly oppose the view that Germans think of their country as the best there is. I would guess half of my German friends would love to live in another country (Australia being no.1 for the girlies).

Nevertheless, if you find the right people, Munich is a great place to live, for all the reasons given above.
---
What it comes down to as well, is that you always want what you cannot have. It's that thing that nags at you, making you think that you still haven't found what you're looking for. The thing that keeps you going and going and never leaves you satisfied... anyone with me?

@ketchup - No I mean relative wealth. Obviously you get paid more in US than Pakistan, but stuff is cheaper in Pakistan.

I go to bed for a few hours and geez, this board is on fire. I was stumped at the number of responses to my last night's post "America or Munich -- where would you rather live?". I want to thank everbody for their feedback.

I apologize for not being too clear about certain details. One, I am from Washington DC area, and two, NOOOO I am not a drug dealer (lol) -- I have a legitimate 100% e-commerce business that only requires me to stay in touch with my people online. The reason why I am considering Munich is because of my romantic involvement with a German girl from munchen. She doesn't care much for America so I it is upto me to change my life around. Anything for the gurrll huh?

Don't get me wrong, I have traveled in many parts of th world-- lot more than an average American. Ko samui? I was there. It was fabulous but really now, would you actually live there? Some places are fantastic to visit but living is a different game altogether. I still need a city life witha rustic touch and thats what I liked about Munich during my short visits.

So, some of you guys actually meet somewhere? If so where?I would like to make some new friends and join you all for my favourite weissbier.

Nochmal, danke schoen alles.

good to see that nothing ever changes...
did it been there bought the t-shirt, but i dont talk to her anymore

Drugs and women - least you can dump the syringe guilt free ...

Anything else???

I agree with your first assertation but your conclusion doesn't follow. I was generalizing based on the average Joe (or Joerg in this case) who is neither well educated nor galavanting about in foreign countries. None of the Americans that I know here would say that America is the best country on the planet but yet it still holds true that Americans, on the whole, do indeed believe it.


So did I!

Point is... America sux0rs, and Munich rox.

I live in NY and I hate it. People steal, too much crime, not a safe city, and it's the dirtiest city Ive ever been in.

Munich, however, is clean, beautiful, SAFE, and people wont mug you in mid-day to steal 5$ for a hotdog. Oh, and Im only 18, so the drinking age thing sorta works out for me. Now I know I can drink without being arrested. ...yay freedom of America.

However... Germany IS pretty ghetto. I mean, I was dumbfounded when I heard you actually had to PAY for a bag to put groceries in. Plus, Germans cant market well, all their stores close at like...6 I miss going to the store at 4 am to get f00d.

The answer to the topic however, is America. For this reason... live in america to DEPRIVE yourself of ANY fun at all... so Munich is that much better when you take a vacation.

Ive been ALLLL over the world, so, despite my age, I feel I hold a good standing in my opinion