Telephone and Internet provider recommendations

Hi,

Just wondered if anyone has experience or knows of alternative telephone and internet providers in the Bremen/Hamburg area?

Have had unbelievable problems with DT wherever I have lived in Germany (despite giving lots of notice and speaking German!) and may shortly be in the situation of needing to access these services again.

Any/all help to avoid the DT route would be appreciated.

Please dont tell me I need to stick with DT, I will cry!

Sorry, DT are the best of a bad bunch..

Need help ?

Try these friendly chaps!

They are in Munich, but can probably help..

All forms are in English and they have a back door to T-kom and Tiscali for your DSL needs.

G

check with electricity and cable TV providers in your area - some of these may have telephony and/or Internet offerings.

Also, regional providers of telephone lines:-

http://www.teltarif.de/a/regio.html

www.teltarif.de also has a section on Internet providers.

One issue to consider about moving away from Telekom: many of the prefix numbers for cheap rate international calls are quoted for Telekom lines.

You cant always use "calling cards" with other providers..

DT still own and maintain the line and service, so , bear in mind that if you have a line fault, DT will sort their own customers first!

Eventful-communications can often get your number in a matter of hours, an the line connected in a few days...

They did my phones... I was very happy with their service.

Geoff

I'm in Hamburg and I use Alice(hansenet). Excellent service and I've never had a problem with them. No DT involved except for transferring your phone line over.

http://www.alice-dsl.de

Thanks guys.

I have about 2 months until I need to finalise all this, just like to be prepared, especially with a little sproglet on the way any day now! Don't think I will feel like doing anything other than sleeping for a while after that!

Think I may try jester's suggestion as that will be my local ish area.

One more question. Do you know who has the shortest notice period to cancel the service? Him in doors can get less than months notice to finish so although I always try and give more and pay accordingly (and ask about this when I set it up etc etc) there always seems to be a problem! Wish he could speak auf Deutsch sometimes!

Satman - don't suppose that websites anything to do with you is it?

Thanks again

Maybe!

Sussed!!! :$

Alice just requires a months notice. Not sure if you could cancel in 4 calendar weeks or if it means end of next bill month. Calls are an ok price within Germany but they raised the prices of international calls from 2c to 8c a few months back (which would be most of my calls) but they also reduced national calls at the same time... I now use VOIP for international calls, works good.

We have just changed our phone and internet service to Arcor and so far we are quite happy with them. Just check out www.arcor.de.

Hi All, before initiating this topic I have searched the forum and found tons of info so hard to dig into. so forgive me if it's a repeated topic.

I'm in search for the following services.

1. Mobile phone line with the lowst initial cost/lowst monthly cost/ no mobile device required/ lowst price per minute: I knew there is a Tschibo 10 Euro line with 0.25E/minute.

2. Fixed Phone line with lowst price per minute or flat rate for local calls if available, which at the same time allows calling the 0800 numbers or similar numbers used for reduced cost long distance calls. preferably comes with Wireless DECT phone equipment

3. lowst price DSL connection with the router (preferably Wireless) or at least discounted one.

My Question is:
1. What is the Suggested provider(s) for such services
2. Do you suggest DSL or Cable for Internet Connection/ is there a Cable service includes phone line ?

Your help is appreciated

Topics merged by admin

I'm interested particularly with #3..DSL connection. I am looking into Alice DSL at the moment (www.alice-dsl.de) and it's looking like the best deal in terms of having no fixed contracts, really high speed (ADSL2+) and includes hardware, which i think is just a wired modem.

The thing that concerns me is how long it will take before I am actually up and running! I do not have a phone line, and the thought of waiting FOUR WEEKS is just a joke if you ask me. In Australia it doesn't take longer than 1 week to get everything set up. So then the important questions re: Alice DSL...

1. Do they also take 4 weeks to set up?

2. Is the waiting time dependent on the city i'm in? (I am in Augsburg)

3. Do they have english-speaking customer service people? (I am fairly technologically proficient, but I do need some info provided in english sometimes...and that seems to NON-EXISTENT over here when it comes to ISP's)

4. How much does it cost to get a Wireless Modem router from these guys? Or should I just go get a cheap little wireless router myself and use that?

(To deep_schismic)

1. Yes. Sometimes more
2. Yes
3. Unlikely but not impossible
4. Take any of their free, cheap or subsidised offers. Buy other equipment (cheaper) elsewhere

Read the small print. Check how long you are locked into any contract and be aware you cannot use alternative phone providers for international calls.

I think Alice has an offer going on at the moment...they seem to be waiving the setup fee or something. I can't be sure as I dont know german...so reading the small print is going to involve lots of Leo.org and babelfish usage haha

What ISP are you with?

And re: not being able to use other providers for international calls..do you mean the use of phone cards?

FWIW: I'm with Telekom for DSL and phone, and I guess I'm in the minority as they're 'expensive'. However to some extent you get what you pay for: The setup was quite quick and easy, the connection is very reliable, support lines are free & do get answered, and their contract is flexible. If this is worth you paying for is up to you. Some friends are with Alice and are also happy with their service but read the contract carefully to know what you're signing. Getting telephone support in English from any company is always a lottery.

You really have to read the previous posts to figure out what companies do what and see who is complaining about whom. The special offers come and go so fast you'll have to read the local papers to see what's current - this may come to you as you'll probably start getting junk mail in your post box too.

I would always recommend Telekom for phone and DSL, then someone else (i.e. NOT T-Online) for Internet provision. Helles Angel sums it all up. You may pay a Euro or more a month (and that's really all it is if you do a detailed calculation!), but you get much more flexibility and service...

To (Deep)
I reviewed the Alice site, is it 50E for both phone flat-rate and DSL flatrate ?
3A) any obligation for minimum period of contract?
3B) do they allow making alternative provider int'l calls [it's not the cards, it's the pay-per-call service numbers]

Correct - €50/month, includes flatrate 16Mbit DSL and unlimited free calls to German landlines (not special or premium numbers, cellphones or datalines). Free connection setup and modem if you order before June 30. No minimum period, 4-week cancellation.

You cannot make alternative provider calls of any type. Calls to European numbers cost €0.08 to €.20 per minute depending on destination (most alternative providers are less than €0.02). Call outside of Europe range from €0.08 to €1.30 (!!) per minute (most other providers €0.015 to €0.20). Calls to German mobiles cost €0.22/minute (other providers €0.13).

They do have additional call packages - for an extra €19.90/month you can get flatrate calls to all of Europe. If you want paper invoices (instead of email) add €2.50/month.

A Telekom based lined will cost €15.95 (analogue phone line), €24.99 (6Mbit DSL) and around €5.00 for unlimited internet access in the city - total around €46/month. Plus calls of course, but with typical calls to anywhere costing less than €0.02/minute (so 3hrs 20minutes of calls per month to anywhere before you exceed Alices monthly cost) or even free with some VoIP services, then the comparison is close, and you can get a Telekom line in 3-4 days. If you take a 4 week vacation then Telekom saves you at least €4...

To (York)
Thanks for the enlighting comparison
as i'm primarily concerned with int'l calls using 0800 numbers, and german mobiles, and not too much into the internet connection speed...according to your comparison I would better go to Telecom, as I understand they have the normal tariff for 0800 numbers and mobile phones, am I correct ?
any suggestion regarding the mobile line ?

I don't make recommendations. 0800 numbers on both services are free. Calls to mobiles are (using call-by-call services) around 40% cheaper with Telekom.
Mobile services are a minefield. Choose one that you think does te business for your circumstances, step back and hope you have not been taken for a ride.

With mobile phones be very careful with the lock-in time to get a handset cheaply. These periods are often up to two years and you can't walk away early without paying the remainder. Read all contracts very carefully.

Another gotcha waiting for you is the automatic one year renewal if you don't send them a letter cancelling your contract 3 months before its expiry. Again covered ad nauseam in previous posts.

To (Helles)
I dont like to get a new handset, so I think I would better go for the prepaid contracts. (which will also prevents me from the 3 month notice perid) but I hear a lot of stuff coming the tariff point. I can't actually understand all these humongous number of price plans for the different companies...Tschibo was easy for me 10E line/ 0.25E/m for all netz...any other opportunities ?

To (York)
do Telecom provide the DSL modem? and the a phone equipment?

Yes, Telekom provide all the boxes. Sometimes they charge for the DSL modem but there are enough of these around that you should be able to get one cheap. They'll also give you a basic phone free too (at least they did 5 years ago), even if you go with ISDN.

Edit: And they'll also come out free of charge and set it all up if you can't work it out for yourself or you get problems (providing you took all the stuff from them).

to York and Helles...Thanks very much for the info, I will consider Telekom.

So just to clarify here...T-Online is SEPARATE from T-Com right? And they both have SEPARATE DSL services...is that correct?

Edit: Does T-Com (Telekom) have a minimum contract term? For me this is an important issue since I will not be here 12 months...at the most another 5-6 months.

Just looked up T-Com...from what I could tell on the Tariff calculator's very fine print..the minimum contract term is 12 months. Am I right?

I mean the only way I could get out of that contract without paying any severance fees would be if I just closed my bank account and left the country never to return right?

Telekom's naming is pretty confusing... I'm not entirely sure how it works, and if stuff goes wrong with Telekom it can be often difficult, even for them, to work out who's to blame. This is the major failing with Telekom. A word of advice - pay your bills manually until everything is working smoothly, then switch to the automatic direct debit if you like. Getting money back from Telekom is practically impossible.

For cancellation terms you'd have to check what contract they offer you. On mine they require just a few days notice (I think), they're also happy to freeze contracts if you go away for a few months.

I think Alice is still lookin better...since they they are not charging the set up fee (is that 59 or 99 euro??) till end of june..the connection is ADSL2+ which is wicked...and no lock-in contracts.

I wonder how long it will take to get it set up given i am in augsburg.

Mindestvertragslaufzeit 12 Monate; automatische Verlängerung um je weitere 12 Monate, sofern keine fristgerechte Kündigung mindestens 3 Monate vor Ablauf der Vertragslaufzeit eingeht.

Hmm, this looks like the 12 months + 12 months deal if not cancelled 3 months before the end deal. This is the complete packet T-DSL FLatrate.

@helles :
Is there something called installation fees in Telekom
is your last post means I got 1y free if i made 1y deal?

Sorry for the confusion! No, there's rarely anything truly free... What that means is if you don't cancel after 9 months of your 12 month fixed contract it will automatically (and bindingly) be extended for another 12 months. I didn't know Telekom did this, and what I found there was for a 'special tariff' so it just goes to show you must be very careful when signing anything, typically the cheaper the deal the more hidden surprises there'll be.

In their AGBs I found that for their normal ISDN tariffs you must give them six days notice. I assume this goes for their 'normal' DSL rates too. If you go for a special, be careful.

8 Kündigung
8.1 Kündigungsfrist
Das Vertragsverhältnis ist zum Schluss eines jeden
Werktages kündbar. Die Kündigung muss der zuständigen
Niederlassung oder dem Kunden mindestens sechs
Werktage vor dem Tag, an dem sie wirksam werden soll,
zugehen. Der Samstag gilt nicht als Werktag.
Wird das Vertragsverhältnis über den der Rufnummer
zugrunde liegenden Anschluss durch den Kunden gekündigt,
so endet damit automatisch auch das Vertragsverhältnis
über die Aufnahme in das Kommunikationsverzeichnis,
ohne dass es dafür einer zusätzlichen Kündigung
bedarf. Der Kunde hat dabei die nachfolgend beschriebenen
Bedingungen der unterschiedlichen Medien zu beachten.

About the installation fee - there's sometimes a one off charge for equipment, or for connection but these are often waived to get your business. Be cheeky, ask them to waive these charges, you've got nothing to lose. It is confusing, your best bet is to go to a Telekom shop and talk to them. Always ask about the contract period, cancelling and automatic renewing, get them to point it out to you in the small print.

The magic words to avoid are:
Mindestvertragslaufzeit 12 Monate - You're with it for 12 months minimum.

automatische Verlängerung um je weitere 12 Monate - They will continue to charge you for 12 month blocks until you write to them and tell them to stop.

sofern keine fristgerechte Kündigung mindestens 3 Monate vor Ablauf der Vertragslaufzeit eingeht. - And you've got to tell them 3 months before the end of your contract or your request is invalid (not fristgerechte). Miss this deadline and you've got to pay for another 12 months. Some contracts do allow you to break this in 'exceptional circumstances' which may or may not include leaving the country.

These terms seem to be only present in 'special offers' from Telekom, they are not part of their normal tariffs.

The T-Online (NOT Telekom!) special deals have a 12+3 contract. 12 months minimum, cancel 3 months before or extend another 12 months. This is common with most providers - some such as Freenet are 24 months. In general the cheaper the offer, or the more freebies you are given, then the longer the commitment (like mobile contracts). Alice is (currently) unique in their flexibility. Remember, however that if you are leaving the country permanently then this is grounds to cancel on all of these offers, and that if you want to change from Alice to someone else (as opposed to cancel completely), it may not be easy, at least not if you want to retain the same phone number(s). Telekom (NOT T-Online!) throw in a free modem/router/WiFi unit if you take speeds of 2Mbit or more and online invoicing. Alice only provide a simple modem.

Alices ADSL2+ is adaptive, so not consistently 16Mbit.

YL6

Sorry Guys, I got a little bit confused again:
I now recognised there is a minimum committment + minimum notice period in the contracts...is it for both phone and DSL ?
To get rid of this hassle I want you to clarify for me one thing:
* WHAT IS THE NORMAL TARIFF OF TELEKOM FOR EVERYTHING* that gives me freedom to cancel the DSL/Phone without long notice and avoids the auto renewal...and gives me the right to live as a normal person ?

No need to shout.

There are three elements to a complete phone and internet service:

Phone + DSL + Internet service provider

You can get each of these elements from different providers or all from the same one. HOWEVER (sorry for shouting) Telekom don't sell Internet service, but their sister company, T-Online does.

Most TELEKOM services have a minimum one-month contract and 6 days cancellation. This applies to both phone and DSL line.

Most (all?) T-Online services, along with most other Internet service providers (who you could also use, it's a free world) have minimum contracts of 12 or 24 months. Some, but not all also automatically renew for a similar period if you don't cancel a minimum time before the end of the commitment

Alice provides all 3, and has no commitment (although any equipment you get from them must be returned at the end of the contract).

As I said before, the longer you commit or the tighter the contract, then the more the sweetners such as free hardware or lower monthly costs are. That's called good business. There are some service providers (e.g. JustDSL who have 1-month cancellation, but they charge more - JustDSL is €14.90/month). Alternatively use a pre-paid DSL offer and pay as you use... If you are not a heavy user, don't want to waste money on a service you don't always need, and don't want to be tied, then that's the best way to go...

Thanks York, you got it all now ;-) thanks also Helles
I found some nice site called www.teletarif.de which monitors the tariffs of telecom companies and make dynamic recommendations. worth have a look, but only in German.

That's ok, thun.

York...What sort of notice do I have to provide if I am leaving the country permanently? And will they let me sign up for a 12 month contract if they know this? Any severance fees involved, etc.

I am quite interested in T-Com because you mentioned they are pretty quick with setting up a connection (which i need asap as i have no phone or net in the house)...and also they provide the wireless router.

dee - depends on the provider. A month should be enough. But beware that breaking the contract early is breaking the rules. You are claiming exceptional circumstances, which if it came to a court case, would cause a judge to say it would not be fair to hold on to the contract if you were no longer living in Germany. You'd likely have to provide evidence of your permanent departure such as Abmeldung, etc. They are not obliged to release you, but most do without too much questioning. It's easier to release you if they know you are leaving than spend money fighting... In case where subsidised equipment has been provided as part of the deal (e.g. mobile phone contracts) they sometimes fight harder, as they can prove a loss as a result of your departure. Remember however that the penalties may not be high. If you have a 12 month contract on a €4.95 internet rate and leave after 9 months, then worst case you have to pay the remaining part of the year - 3 x 4.95 = €14.85 - so it won't break the bank.

Alice is still lookin good overall...just wonder how long it'll take to get my phone line and net set up. I saw they have an option for a 'WLAN Basisstation' for a one-off EUR 29.90 fee but as you mentioned, i would probably have to give it back once i disconnected the service...

my other option is to just pick up a wireless router off ebay or something.

as for the 16Mbps speed..i dont expect to get full speed, as i know there's many factors involved. I had adsl+ in australia with 8Mbps max, and i would never get more than 5.5-6Mbps...but it was still sweet. So if this is at least HALF as fast, then its going to be great. 800k upload is good too

As Telekom own the lines into all houses Alice (or any other alternative TelCo) have to liaise with them to setup the service and take over the service on the two bits of copper. This liaison can be long and drawn out - clearly Telekom have little interest in supporting a connection to a customer they don't get. 4-6 weeks is not unusual, but I have heard of quicker connections.

Hmm I see. So what if I went and just got an analog phone connection from T-Com which I hear doesnt take more than 4-5 working days to set up...and then went and signed up for Alice? How would that throw a spanner in the works?

Hi YL6,

Since you have been so helpful so far, could you please clarify one more thing? You mentioned that if I were to have Alice organize everything that it can take a long time because they have to liase with T-Com.

So if I went the "quicker" route..i.e. I go to T-Com and tell them I want a basic analog phone and a DSL line, would I be able to apply for my Alice connection as soon as my phone and DSL are set up by T-Com? And how would I actually avoid getting into a contract with T-Com?

And to just clarify a little bit further...having a DSL line is different from actually subscribing to an ISP, is that correct? So I would essentially be having T-Com arrange the physical connection before subscribing to Alice DSL then...am I right?

I am asking to clarify this because in Australia, the phone line IS the DSL line, it's just a matter of what ISP you go with..like there is no distinguishing between the ISP and the DSL provider. Here there seems to be this intermediate step..

To some extent I'm repeating myself, but in summary, you could, in theory:

- get phone and DSL line from Telekom (€159 connection charge, BUT if you take DSL-2000 or better AND online invoicing you get a free modem/router/WiFi box) - minimum one months commitment, then can cancel anytime after 6 days. Should take a week or less to setup.

- Get your internet provision from a provider who has no commitment, e.g. JustDSL who do monthly packages or pre-pay cards (€14.90/month with one-month cancellation)

- One the minimum Telekom 1 month is up apply for Alice. It'll take 3-4 weeks but is easier as it's an existing line. Alice will take care of cancelling the Telekom element for you. Once you have an changeover date from Alice then cancel any ISP contract you have. Alice is (currently) free to setup and you get a free modem - no problems, however to use the modem/router/WiFi provided by Telekom.

The question is, is it worth the hassle? You've paid €159 (the Telekom connection charge) for a "free" modem/router/wifi which is a bit steep and you'll pay around €10/month over the odds for a flexible-contract ISP, plus, the changeover from Telekom to Alice MIGHT not go smoothly (I've heard of occasions with interruptions of 2-5 days during such changeovers)

Given (my earlier calculation) that Alice is only a little cheaper, I'd think carefully before going down this route...

YL6

Thanks again YL6...will consider what to do in the next few days, and let people know what happens.

I am hoping that since I am in a small town like augsburg, the process goes a bit smoother (quicker)

Unlikely. Probably just the opposite.

Quite the opposite indeed...I applied for Alice DSL on Thursday night...and friday I got the order summary in my email..which mentions that my connection will be set up by "early to mid-August". Outstanding...I would think that I was in a 3rd world country trying to get my internet set up there...amusingly enough, it would probably be quicker there.

I'm wondering if hte world cup has anything to do with it...maybe no one's working for the next month.

Well, you can't say you weren't warned...