Winter Road Conditions in Germany and Austria

With christmas and new year coming up many people will be travelling. It's also a time of year when there's likely to be chaos on the roads because of the bad weather:

Here are some sites where you can find out the road conditions:

ReisePlanung.de
ADAC - use the "Autobahn Schnell-Info" link on the right-hand side
Verkehrsinfo (Germany) - click on Gesamtbestand Deutschland for an overvierw of current conditions
Verkehrsline (Austria)
Unwetterzentrale - bad weather warnings

(Source: Toytown Munich - European Winter Road Conditions)

Anybody know any more useful sites? Post them here.

Kratzprognose to see if you need to scrape the ice off your car or not, shown pictoraly.

And don't forget:

From 1st Jan, you need to have "tyres suitable for the conditions" in Germany, This means winter tyres by snow, ice, or temperatures under 7°C. This does not mean M+S tyres it means tyres with a "snow flake" icon moulded in to them. These have a softer rubber and extra sipes in the tread. (Although the constructions and use regulations here don't actually specify what a winter tyre is, there is a general rule amongst the manufacturers)

Although there is a planned fine of €20 for not having winter tyres (€40 if you cause obstruction to another road user through not having winter tyres), this will not be levied initially.

The bigger problem is insurance. If you are involved in an accident, the insurance company can claim gross negligence on your part and refuse to pay-out. So even if the other driver caused the accident, you can be left to pick up the tab for your own damages. If an expert (Gutachter) decides you could have avoided the accident had you had winter tyres, you can be left to pick up the tab for the other parties damage as well (until now you had only a part of the blame). This gets you a fine and points in Flensburg for "endangering road traffic" for not havig had "suitable" tyres on your car.

It is also not only the Tyres! The new law does state specifically that you must have "adequate" antifreeze in you windscreen washers. (sounds like a field day for the filling stations)

For the Germaqn readers amongst you, you can read more here.

Mike,

I am aware of the "suitable" tyre obligations, however there is no obligation that everyone needs "Winter Tyres" (another typical German regulation that is as clear as mud.)
As an alternative, one could opt for all-season tyres - does exactly what it says on the tin.

BTW, M+S means engl.: Mud and Snow, dt.: Matsch und Schnee- M+S Tyres therefore are winter tyres (or in the case of all season tyres, suitable for winter use.) Winter Tyre info The snowflake icon is intended to be the new recognition sign for tested winter tyres. Snowflake quality icon This however does not make M+S tyres obsolete!!

Can only agree with Maisflocke.

M+S can be found on "Allseason" and Wintertyres.

If you live in a region that does not have alot of snow, all season would be OK. ( Köln/Bonn ) . But here in Stutters, Wintertyres are recommended...It has just been snowing ...

Unfortunately it is not so clear yet, I guess. The following article is from 16. November though, if anyone finds a newer link, I will say sorry in advance.

We have winter tyres anyway thats why I am not to much bothered about it. But a friend just bought "Allwetterreifen" and she hopes of course that this will be "accepted" as winter tyres.

if your german is good enough

http://www.autosieger.de/print.php?sid=7960

Allwetter will be accepted !!

in the article it says its not clear yet. But if you say so ?

I have been told ( German Police - Neighbour of mine ) that for "normal" driving Allwetter will be accepted. Even the insurance company will accept them.
But I would not recommend them if you are going to the alps or live in the south...

If you ask me, take their licence away!

Can you imagine driving along the road, suddenly it snows, and only then does it actually dawn on you that it is in fact winter time... :doh:

I know they mean it differently

@ Maisflocke:

Yes, M+S does mean exactly mud and snow, not ice and cold! They are also sometimes known as "knobblies", or block treads, because of their tread form, which is specificall developed for loose surfaces. The profile of a proper M+S is developed primarily for off-road use, and is not as stabile in cornering as a normal "road" profile", and your braking distance is also longer, due also to the relatve movement of the tread blocks. They also don't necessarily have the soft rubber needed for extra grip at low temperatures. They also wear out faster in road use than tyres designed specifically for road use. Added to that, M+S is not a regulated symbol, so the manufacturer can put it on any tyre he chooses, which is especially prevalent amongst lower price bracket tyres.

"All season" tyres are a bad solution. They are not as good as normal tyres in summer (especiall in rain, the braking distance is significantly longer than either summer or "proper" winter tyres) and not as good as winter tyres in winter conditions. Especially on ice, they are no better than normal summer tyres. Just because the have an "M+S" imprinted does not actually mean they will be significantly better that summer tyres in those conditions. In fact, some summer tyres are still better than "all seasons" tyres in many typical winter conditions.

The "snowflake" symbol means the tyre has a rubber compound adapted for low temperatures and additional sipes in the tread form, needed to provide maximum grip in icy conditions. These are tyres specifically developed for on-road winter use. Especially in those areas where snow is less prevalent, but ice is relatively common, these are the tyres you need.

If you read what I wrote, you will see that I did indicate that the problem is more likely to be the insurance companies. Up untill now, you could be given a "Mitschuld", be apportioned some of the blame in an accident, without winter tyres. This meant that, even if you were not directly to blame for the accident, you could be left carry a portion of the total damages.

BTW: Driving with winter tyres in summer can have similar consequences. A gutachter can say the same about winter tyres in summmer, as he can say about summer tyres in winter.

This change, however, allows the insurance companies to get out of gaol free. They can claim you were grossly negligent, and refuse to cover the material damages - they still have to cover third party injuries by law, but that won't stop them trying to get the money back from you personally after the fact.

@ Farlands:

Maybe your friendly beat copper next door would not give you a fine just for driving down the road with the "wrong" tyres on, but that looks different in court after an accident. That is the realm of the "Gutachter". When he states that your tyres were not suitable for the conditions, and the accident could have been avoided had you had suitable tyres on, the judge will judge against you. The insurance companies also base their decisions on these gutachters, and will decide against you too.

The regulation was intended to be introduced next March, so you can expect fines to be levied in roadside checks, and for "obstruction" when you get stuck, from next winter onwards. You might then "get away with" M+S, or "all season", but that little snow flake will save you from hassle all together.

At this point, I have to "out" myself and say that, after 25 years as a vehicle development engineer, including over 4 years researching traction systems and vehicle dynamics, I can assure you that the performance differences listed and the legal implications are based on fact.

There are any number of comparitive tests, by reputable independant organisations, tyre and vehicle manufacturers, which all prove this. All Gutachters will quote these as proof and state that, had you had proper winter tyres, the accident wouldn't have happened, or would have been less serious.

That said: I personally never had winter tyres before I came to Germany, even in snowy and hilly Scotland. Living in the Rheinland, the only time I have fitted any to one of my cars in the last 20 years was because my ex was driving it. Exactly because she is unsure as a driver, and was more likely to be involved in an accident.

I will, however, definitely have proper winter tyres fitted every winter from now on -- just because of how the change affects the insurance situation.

@ mike,

I tend to associate snow with ice and cold, or is there warm weather snow too??!!?? :doh:

I am not going into the juicy details of M+S, because as I have already stated the new regulation is as clear as muck. The only clear thing about the regulation is that it requires Tyres suitable for winter conditions. Nothing anywhere about Snowflakes permitted, M+S not.

I personally do not use all seasons, but they are and remain permitted for use in winter - your Information on a winter tyres only regulation was not 100% correct as this puts the owners of all seasons tyres in doubt.

The new snowflake symbol is a seal of "designed for winter", the tyre must subjected to testing to confirm it is better than its summer counterpart ( Voraussetzung für die Nutzung dieses Symbols ist die Absolvierung eines Tests, bei dem der Winterreifen bessere Ergebnisse erzielen muss als das Sommer-Pendant).

I read what you wrote, and agree with the insurance company point - sorry I didn't publicly back you up on that one.

I have always used Winters since driving in Germany - for me it was never a question of insurance, It was always a simple case of looking after Number One and of course Mrs. Number One.

The M+S is a designation of a type of profile. It is called mud + snow, because it is principally designed for muddy, or loose surfaces, but also works in snow. That is it. If they were primarily designed for snow, they would be called Snow and Mud or S+M, if you prefer

As I wrote, they are not designed primarily for road use, and do not necessarily have a base construction conducive to extended road usage, nor do they necessarily have a rubber compound suitable for winter use.

Just because tyres have M+S on their flanks, does NOT mean they are winter tyres, Most M+S tyres are worse than summer tyres on typical winter roads, and only provide some advantage in deep snow. Even in the Alps, deep snow is not found on most roads after the snow plow has been through, and they will not help you on ice.

They also wear out faster than proper winter tyres designed for road use.

As for "all seasons" tyres: They are, and always will be a poor compromise. They have less grip in summer than summer tyres, and less grip in winter than winter tyres. They also wear out faster in summer, as they generally have a softer rubber. If you have to deal with deep snow in a road car, add snow chains, you even need thos sometimes with M+S in deep snow, in Austria they are compulsory in some places.

If you have proper road winter tyres in winter and summer tyres in summer, you get the optimum grip and road holding all year, and the tyres you are not using aren't wearing out.

So what is better? Wearing out 2 sets of tyres in "parallel" and having optimal grip all year, or wearing out 2 and a bit sets of tyres in series over the same time, with inferior grip all year?

As far as courts and insurance are concerned the point is the gutachter. The judges don't know the subject matter and rely on expert opinion, so the gutachter becomes the judge and jury here. Even if you have M+S tyres, or "all season", if he says if you had snowflakes on the accident wouldn't have happened, the judgement will go against you in the mud of the new "regulation", as you obviously did not have "appropriate" tyres on.

In traffic, you have the same responsibility here that you have in the UK and elsewhere. You are compelled to drive according to the conditions and technical capability of the vehicle you are driving. That is where the conundrum arises: If you are involved in an accident you could have avoided, you were negligent. Either your vehicle was not technically adequately equipped, or you were not driving with due care and attention.

Additionally, the STVO requires that the driver ensures that all technical measures are taken to minimise the danger to other road users as much as possible, before starting the journey. If you don't, your insurance company will claim that the vehicle was not roadworthy in the prevailing conditions, and the conditions of the insurance cover also require the driver to take all possible measures, so your stuffed there too.

Believe me, you don't want to take these things too lightly, especially in this country. As I wrote, I can get by physically without winter tyres, and always have, just by adjusting my driving. The extended possibilities of the new wording, however, mean that I will be using winter tyres from here on in.

I just don't understand why people always try to find a way to justify why a particular behaviour "will go through, because..." when a muddy regulation leaves so much to the imagination. The only way to get round the eventuality is to be equipped to the utmost. Then you can prove that you did everything possible, anything less will leave you open to judgement.

BTW: The purpose of this new definition is principally to reduce the traffic chaos which results everytime it snows, or gets icy.