Just Starting Out

Hi
We are currently living in the UK and have made the decision to go for it and move out to Germany.
I already speak German thanks to German parents but my husband and kids dont yet.
My biggest worry about doing this is the children and how easily they will find settlling in and learning the language. I have a 7 year old and a 3 year old. My plan at the moment is that for the first 3-6 months neither of us work and the kids dont go to school. We could all attend German lessons (even mine could do with brushing up) and once the kids had a grasp of the language we could look to intergrate them into German school. We wouldnt have the funds to pay for international schooling long term and equally I want long term for them to be integrated in German life .
So how have yours coped with learning the language. What time scales did you give things before throwing them in the deep end? Are there any hints or tip about this subject?
Thanks

Good luck to you hope it all works out, although you may have problems with the "Schulpflicht" ie you have to by law send your kids to school (not a lawyer so dont know if there are ways around this) your kids are in the perfect age (under 11) to learn languages and should have no problem with your help. I would suggest that you start speaking to them in German aiming at the situation where you only speak German with them and your husband English thus they dont lose out on the English side of things.

Hi,

Welcome to the board Nicola, I suggest you send Hellie a pm, she has done just what
you are planning to do. She moved over a few months ago and her kids have just
started school here, I'm sure she'll tell you how they are getting on

Hi Nicola

from me too welcome to the board.
I agree with fuchs66 you have to, by German law, send your kids to school, waiting 3 months could get you into trouble. That is what you dont need at the start. They are at an age where they can integrate better than older kids.

I moved over here at the age of 16, two of my brothers were 11 and 13 , they both had difficulties adapting.

As Neil said give Hellie a PM she might be able to say more about this all. All i know is that her kids are getting on just fine...

Thanks for that, I have PM'd Hellie as per your advice.
Interesting about the schooling . What happens then when a parent decides to "home school" - which is effectively what I would be doing for the 3 months. Or is this just not done in Germany? Will need to look into this subject more. Thanks again.

Well unless you're a teacher, can prove that, the German authorities recognise your qualifications and have the patience to wade through a mountain of official forms and documents, you have no chance. Even if you are a teacher the chances are very slim, home teaching is discouraged with a capital D and the "Schulpflicht" is fairly well enforced, keeping your kids from school can and does lead to court and high fines or even imprisonment.

I moved to Germany when my daughter was just coming up to 11 and, although she went to a normal school it did have a program to take non German speaking children. They did normal lessons (all in German) but they also got extra lessons in learning the language. The whole time at school they were talked to in German which only helped them to get accustomed to the language quicker.

I don't really think that it would be an advantage to keep the children out of school as I think they will be much more likley to try out speaking the language with the kids there than just repeating words during a lesson. The kids chatting in breaktime can be just as effective as formal lessons.

You can always do some extra stuff at home to speed up the process.

All the best

Hi Nicola,

from me too - welcome

Forget about Home School, the authorities are extremely strict on the Schulpflicht subject.

Your 3 year old is okay, because he or she is too young for school anyway. At that age they are usually really well able to adapt to a new lingo in Kindergarten which you should send them to... that way they will be fluent in German before you know it.
Your 7 year Old will probably have a more difficult time due to being a bit older but I know people who came to Germany at 11 or 12 and they seemed to have no real problems integrating into German Kids life (they admit it was difficult, but being young gave them such an advantage as they were not old sods like most of us around here ) may I suggest you start speaking German to both of them already to help them get the taste of things??

Best of luck,

Bob

whats up with staying in england?
remember where you heard it first!
mark my words etcetcetcetc

good luck anyway best wishes
the yamster

OOps forgot to say...my daughter had no problems settling in at all.

All kids react to change differently and I was lucky that I had one that was still happy to go off to school on the second day (biggest hurdle, that one). Even though she did say that she did not have a clue what was being said to her all day.

The problem came when I went in for the teacher/perent day and the teacher refused to speak English (although he could) and promptly told ME off for having not learnt enough already

you should have kicked him in the rocks betty

but nicola please take note of corinnes post even with german parents you will experience this friendly atitude from time to time.

why do you want to leave england when everyone here wants to go back?
ok not everyone

Why do I want to leave England? Where do I start? Ok first and foremost our lives have suddenley hit a spot where we can decide to do something life changing. We are looking for a life that is more family orientated. I am looking for a country which in most parts is more beautiful than the one I am in - sorry no I dont think England is attractive. I would like to live more centrally in Europe so that we are able to travel more without the initial expense of crossing the channel (in school hols this is astronomical). I think that it does everybody good to experience a different culture during their lives and not just on holiday. I think it will benefit my children to be truely bilingual. England is a country where your children are off to school at 4 years old, from 8.30 - 3.30 - you dont get enough time with them, and "the family" is becoming less and less important in English society. Just while surfing some websites for rental properties in Germany you come across a common phenomena " a two generation house"!!! What? Arent old people just to be stuck in a stinking NHS home?
I dont know when you were last in England but believe me - you arent missing much. Ok ok, I agree I am sure I still wear my rose tinted glasses when it comes to my parents country where I experienced some great times. But as an adult I have also experienced german people tutting when my children have been a little too bold, and getting out of their cars to have a go at me becuase I wasnt in the right lane!! But hey, what country doesnt have something to moan about.
In a nutshell I guess a change of scenery is what I'm after, a change to way of life. And if we dont like it. Guess what? We can come back! Nothing ventured , nothing gained.

fair comment nicola
but arnt the kids going to miss proper food when they get here?
and do you realy want your kids to stay kids till they are 35 years old?
and as for the old folkes holme two generations house thing etc ,the way its going over here everyone is going to have to work until they are 125 before the government allow them to retire

wink wink

only havin a bit of fun

good luck

[QUOTE]Ok first and foremost our lives have suddenley hit a spot where we can decide to do something life changing.[/QUOTE]

Someone get the sack?

[QUOTE]We are looking for a life that is more family orientated.[/QUOTE]

Hope you have some success because in my experience Germany is far from being family orientated.

[QUOTE]I am looking for a country which in most parts is more beautiful than the one I am in - sorry no I dont think England is attractive.[/QUOTE]

While agreeing with you that Germany has it's attractive points as in countryside etc where are you in the UK? I find it a very attractive country at least on par with Germany.

[QUOTE]I would like to live more centrally in Europe so that we are able to travel more without the initial expense of crossing the channel[/QUOTE]

OK that is I admit one big plus point about Germany and one I have failed to take advantage of to the full (yet)

[QUOTE]I think that it does everybody good to experience a different culture during their lives and not just on holiday.[/QUOTE]

Another excellent point

[QUOTE]I think it will benefit my children to be truely bilingual.[/QUOTE]

Yep

[QUOTE]England is a country where your children are off to school at 4 years old, from 8.30 - 3.30[/QUOTE]

Not a problem so much if you have to earn a living and dont want to or cant afford child minders

[QUOTE]- you dont get enough time with them, and "the family" is becoming less and less important in English society.[/QUOTE]

True but that goes for here too

[QUOTE]Just while surfing some websites for rental properties in Germany you come across a common phenomena " a two generation house"!!![/QUOTE]

A what? You mean parents living with children? Maybe they cant afford a home? Or then again maybe the son just stayed with mummy as often seems the case here.

[QUOTE]What? Arent old people just to be stuck in a stinking NHS home?[/QUOTE]

No they get stuck into a stinking private home and pay through the nose for the honour too.

[QUOTE]I dont know when you were last in England but believe me - you arent missing much.[/QUOTE]

As with any country it depends where you are.

[QUOTE]Ok ok, I agree I am sure I still wear my rose tinted glasses when it comes to my parents country where I experienced some great times.[/QUOTE]

Most definately

[QUOTE]In a nutshell I guess a change of scenery is what I'm after, a change to way of life. And if we dont like it. Guess what? We can come back! Nothing ventured , nothing gained[/QUOTE].

Cant argue with that and once again good luck to you, but dont expect too much as you may be very disappointed.

Nicola,
Germany is a great place, especially if you want to change the focus of your life from the fast pace you lived in the UK. However be careful where you look to move to as some areas are more hectic than others. I'd choose a village on the outskirts of a major city. Get your kids into school and Kindergarten right away, they will pick it up. Get German TV too.
We moved to Germany with a 3 year old, straight into Kindergarten after a month. She attended 2 years at German school and is now in a French school in Belgium. She speaks no French yet but is getting there. She was the only girl in her class last week to get 100% in her Dutch speaking test(obviously the German influence). Kids adapt better than adults. If you are looking for a change and are positive about it it will be great. First year flies by, have fun.

Cammy

@yamyam

I don't agree with you about England...I personally really like it here in Germany /Europe!

You are being way to negative!

We moved from Canada to Germany and yes, it took some adjustment to get used to the rule oriented society.

My hubby could not speak a word of German...now he does pretty good.

Kids adjust much quicker than we give them credit for...they will probably be putting you to shame within a year (with the German skills)!

We love it here!

Having said that...(am German via both parents as well) I am still very Canadian!

- Chris

My kids are 4 and 2 and have lived in Germany for a year. We lived in the UK before and none of us speak German.

My son (4) has been at Kindergarten for 12 months and speaks fluent German. My daughter (2) has played with her brother's friends and been to krabbelgruppe and speaks some German - enough to understand her favourite TV programmes.

Hi Corinne

I agree with most comments made, and from personal experience I would come into Germany with an open mind as things are most often than not as straight forward as back in the UK. Fuchs 66 was pretty spot on with some of his comments.

Personally, I think its a great and brave decision that you are making and I am sure things will work out the way you want them to, just like it has for the majority of us.

Best of luck and enjoy the experience

As Chris said we've been here 6 years and are very happy. We've never regretted making the change, for the kids a second language is great.

I have to ask what city are you moving to, and do you have work?

I was going to ask why you didn't follow the rest of the brits and move to France or Spain but your German so it makes sense to do that.

Are you going to live in a small dorf or a big city,both have advantages and dis advantages, main frustration to living in a small dorf is lack of transportation links and few to none English speakers or expat groups.

Only negative to living in Germany is the high unemployment and non existent growth. Taxes aren't that bad and health care public or private is much better than England.

As to your husband learning German had a friend do that and forced himself to learn it, he didn't have any English speaking friends for several years. You will tire very quickly of having to do everything because he doesn't speak German.

Good luck

Would like to add my welcome to the boards.

I would suggest one of finds a job and get your whole family registered in one of the health schemes/system. As far as I am aware this is a lot easier if one of you has a job here. You never know what will happen in the future especially with your children. Ideally the job could also help with details about relocation and may also help with a language course. Although I dislike mixing work with pleasure having contacts with others will become important and work may at least give an oppotunity to mix with others. I have tended to find that meeting new people in Germany is far harder than the UK but it will depend on where you move to.

My wife is German and to be honest overall I am pleased to have moved over here. Be prepared for the cultural differences and accept you are in another country.

Don't be afraid to ask the consulate questions and ask for advice (in my experience they have always been helpful) and enjoy these boards.

Good luck

I would stress this, underline it and surround it with flashing neon lights. If you haven't got a job lined up or enough money set aside until you have (and with the state of the economy here this may take quite a while) dont do it.


As opposed to practically impossible if you haven't got a job.


If you are a very sought after professional maybe but as a rule most employers are not going to pay for a relocation from the UK.
Please dont think I am a pessimist that is far from the case but be realistic about the move and be prepared for things to go pear shaped because they most likely will.

Should be noted I mentioned details on relocation,not costs of relocation, this includes advice when you get here (such as registration of address etc). If thay are a large company they may have a personel department which may have a list of these kind of things, some of which are legal requirements.

It is far too easy in Germany to not realise you need to do something unless you are informed and to be possibly penalised at a later date. Red tape can be a killer.

Thanks for all the advice. We are looking to move to Germany for several reasons but of course the fact that I speak it is a big pull. We dont have jobs lined up for us and no we are not in particularly desirable professions BUT given the house market over here in England over the past 10 years we suddenley find that our modest semi has doubled in value in 10 years leaving us in a position to leave a sizeable chunk in England as our "emergency we want to come home fund" and also a good amount of money to subsize at least a year of living in Germany. That way we could take any sort of job (we're not so proud that we wouldnt do a job that is so called "beneath us") and on the contrary I dont expect to get fantastic work unitl our language is up to scratch.
We would like to move to the south - Bavaria - looking at somewhere within travelling distance to Munich but not in Munich itself with it's higher rental prices. My family is all up North (Bremen) but a mixture of it not being so attractive as the South, friendlier people down south, and an easier access to the rest of Europe down south has made us make up our minds.
These boards have been a fantastic help - from making me realise I dont need to sell our TV over here to giving me invaluable tips about the kids and schooling. Keep them coming!! Please!

The last time I gave someone new advice she took it really really personal, and suggested I was a fat hairy Billy-no-friends or family! oh how wrong she was! :doh:

Glad you like it here, give and take really

Bob

I still think 120h+ surfing is ott

One thing I should add whether you rent or buy it is very typical for you to pay the fee's, make sure you talk them down!!!

they won't like it, but I like even less paying 2 months rent or 5% fee to buy a house.

also I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but from an expat point of view Barvia rocks, has the largest expat population by far.

What drugs are you on then?

When it comes to comparing family-friendliness Germany and UK are in different leagues. Anybody go to the Herbstmarkt in Kronberg at the w/e? So much for kids to do in a family-oriented environment. Sometimes the family-friendliness here just blows me away.

Nicola
One thing not to under estimate is how difficult it is currently to find employment here and I would really recommend that you have some sort of health insurance cover. If you get caught in Germany without experience it can get expensive...

But good luck, hope all goes well 4 you.

@ furt franker
i dont take drugs anymore.
but i do sometimes have a tinsy winsy little drinkipoo

Nicola

It really is worth taking the employment thing seriously and checking local papers if you can to see what if any work is available. I know you said you'll do anything but even that option isn't available in some places. Remember there's no minimum wage in Germany, people are so scared of losing their jobs at the moment they're accepting appalling breaches of employment law (one friend has just worked for free for 2 months rather than lose his job) and the unemployment rules are complex and as several on these boards have found to their cost, hard for people coming into the country to access if their original job goes pear-shaped. People aren't being negative for the sake of it - it's just that it's pretty clear things aren't going to get better fast so you really need to plan a strategy.

You might also like to check out childcare availability when deciding on a location - in some places it is next to non-existent in others quite good. Availability appears to be entirely random. Oh and 2-Familienhaus doesn't mean two generations, it means a house containing two separate households - a bit like a semi-detached but top and bottom rather than side by side.

Where do your parents live, Nicola? You mentioned they are German.

Hi Nicola

I must say that you ARE a brave cookie!!
I don't want to get all nagative and doom-and-gloom-like, but I have to say that as far as I see it, now is NOT the time to be moving to Germany! One could argue that there is never a right time to move, but everything is stacked against the country at the moment. I know I know, I might see it differently to those of you who still live there, but I've never made such a good decision before in my life than to get out of the country!! Well we all have our reasons for coming and going, but if you think you only need money for 1 year or so, think long and hard as to whether Germany is worth "investing" that money in, as well as your futures, as that is what you are doing, investing. I reckon that you'll be waiting more than a year to get a job.
Whoever said get medical insurance was spot on, and that doesn't come cheap. Then there's all the job hunting. When Germans can't get jobs, one has to seriously wonder whether foreigners can get any jobs which don't included taking toilet money!
Oh dear, I am being rather negative All I mean to say is really think about it, which I'm you are, and don't just jump on the "We've Got A New Life" bandwagon, which more often than not turns into a huge disaster!!!

I made the decision to move to Germany to, but it seems to be a challange. Anyone with a casual job out there to give me a shout. I live in Köln

Thats very true. It is damned difficult here these days, and doesnt look like its going to get any easier either.

The germans have got used to massive levels of unemployment (like 3,5 4 4,5 and 5 millions) they hardly notice it anymore, and it is certainly still not yet high enough for them to wake up and make the necessary reforms. As long as a large minority can still drive their fat BMWs and have their 6 weeks plus holiday and are in work, its a case of Im all right Jack and bugger the rest.

Or in german: Mir gehts gut, und nach mir der Sintflut..

Incidentally, going a little off topic here, all the hullaballoo about Hartz IV made me laugh, "Montagsdemos" and all that. The UK has had "Hartz IV" since the 80s, and no big deal.

@rick_de

Actually we have had the Hartz IV as well in Canada for a long time...10 - 20 years...

What I do not like here is that there really are no jobs to be had if you are over 45 - 50...or? Especially not in your field...

Whereas in Canada you definitely still can get the job no matter what your age (loads of low paying work) mind you maybe not in your field.

- Chris

and that's why Hartz IV doesn't work here, there aren't any jobs to go to anyway, even for those under 40!

There is some truth in that. Its not just a matter of making the dole here less attractive, you also have to create the conditions for new jobs to be created. And not just 1 euro jobs, but "real jobs" as Norman Tebbit always liked to put it.

A german the other day told me the reason for the high unemployment was overpopulation!!! Which doesnt explain why the UK has minimal unemployment - with a still rising population, whist Germany`s population is static or falling.

Hi Nicola
If you go to the dentist here and you need some work doing e.g. cap, bridge , false´s etc., the Krankenkasse will pay towards it depending how many credits you have on your "Bonusheft".

If I was you, I would bring your familys dental records with you as you may be able to get a Bonusheft backdated and therefore you should save lots of money when your teeth start falling out
Good luck
Terry