Tax - Steuererklärung

Afternoon,
After yesterday's truely epic 4th Test, I have decided to dampen my spirits and excitement by doing my Steuererklärung for 2004.

I moved here (sunny Frankfurt) from Blighty in Sept 2004, so only worked in Germany for 4 months and so I am hoping that I can get most of my tax back. I think the tax form was due a while ago, but I wrote to my Finanzampt and applied for an extension.

I am only vaguely familiar with the tax system, and from a straw poll in the office have deducted that even the natives have only a basic understanding of how it all works.

My understanding is that the aim of the game is to identify as much as possible to absetzen. I know that there are flat rates that can be used for moving house etc, but these seem to cover inland moves - and I haven't had much luck in finding out about the situation regarding international moves.

Do any of you guys have experience in doing this?
Does anyone out there have any good tips for filling the sucker in?

Cheers
Ben

Hire some one. Impossible to do your self unless your German.

If your near Frankfurt Mainz I can recomemend someone.

If near Munich check out toytowngermany.com

Sorry to break the bad news but if you are employed you will likley get a tax bill in the first year. Problem being that Germany will set your upper tax rate on the TOTAL earnings in 2004 including UK earnings and your employer will probably not. Result for me was €3000 bill in first year after working 6 months. But a rebate of £2500 from the UK...

I am employed but i have never got a tax bill...

cammy what are you talking about? Not everyone here works for a british company...
I pay my tax just like any other German, every month
Yes, i work for a German company that has absolutely nothing to do with England or any sort of English Tax.

try getting hold of a programme that can do it for you. there is even one online...

Splended game, wasn't it?

Give all the paperwork to a tax consultant. (Get a quote first, though) Then put your feet up and prepare yourself for the oval.

If you'd like to join me in prayer that England wins the toss and that the Good Lord provides some assistance with reverse swing.

Trouble is those tax programmes I find just as complicated or even more so than the tax forms themselves.
If you`re an employee, (rather than self emp.) how about trying one of those self-help steuervereine? They are cheap, cost much less than accountants.

Get some help with the Steuereklärung. I can see what Cammy is getting at but there are double taxation agreements to prevent you paying tax twice on the same earnings. What you pay a Steuerberater is itself tax deductible and they usually save you enough to be worth what you pay them.

Have a look out for a "Lohnsteuerhilfeverein" Or look in the Phonebook, or google for it in your area. That is a club for non self-employed people only. It costs something around 80 EUR per year, but they will do everything for you. very simlar to a Steuerberater, but alot lot cheaper !!! Been there seen it done it bought the T-Shirt.

Stephen

are you talking about being employed by a british company again?
this is where we have to split this whole thing up, If you work for a German company you will not pay tax twice.. The whole paying of tax is done for you. If you are Self employed here then that is another matter. If you work for a UK firm over here that is again another matter.

Bulldog,
Calm down . I worked for a German company as well and paid standard German PAYE. You do not get taxed fully twice on your earnings but the German tax authorities will take into account what was earned in the first part of the year of working in the UK. Its only ion the first year this happens. Remember tax year is Jan-Dec, he only worked here for 4 months of that. They will use his earnings to set his level of taxation, so that he doesn't get a whole year of tax allowances against a 4 month working period. It is of course possible the company have taken this into account but certainly it was not my experience. The UK actually allow this and that is why he will get a rebate from the UK, Germany do not. I would use a tax accountant, they are worth it as they will show you the ropes of what is possible and what is not.
The cost for the accountant can as said previously be offset against next years tax. I used a guy near Frankfurt, if you want the details PM me. He was OK and cost between 350 and 450 Euros per tax year. I know some folks who paid less and some who paid more, I always got more back from this guy than I got using KPMG at €1500 in my first 3 years.

Cheers
Cammy

Please, please, please DO NOT go to Lohnsteuerhilfe! They know absolutely nothing.

We have had two Steuerberater, and they have ALWAYS gotten us lots of money back each year. (worth their weight in Gold)

One year up to 8000 Euro!! If you have a good one, they will look for every possible loop hole especially if they see the potential for repeat business.

They cost about 400 Euro each year but we always get back between 1500 - 4000 euro every year.

We went to Lohnsteuerhilfe the first year we moved here, found out afterword that instead of getting back 500 DM (at the time) we would have gotten back most of the taxes we paid in Canada, had we had someone who knew what they were doing...doing the taxes.

Oh well, live and learn.

@ Tim, I suppose its like everything. If you have a simple TAX life, the the Lohnsteuerhilfeverein will do just great. If you have a complicated case i.e moving to the fatherland from abroad, then I will beg pardon. The more complicated your Taxlife, then the more important it is 4 u to go to a Steuerberater.

Mine is very simple. Same every year...Thats why I do it myself

There, thats that little dispute solved then !!!

Stephen

@cammy I am calm just got back from the dentists

just looks off putting for people coming to Germany who then get the impression that the German govournment just rips you off...

, Taxwise its a wash between the UK and Germany, there is little or no difference now. The cost of living I think is lower in Germany. However its not always been like that

but to answer ben_w's question: you can deduct from your german taxable income in year 1 the entire cost of your removal if you can reasonably demonstrate that you moved here for work. you have to keep receipts tho.

if you have a reasonable level of german you can easily do your own taxes using WISO software, which costs E35 and is itself tax-deductible. you can buy it in any book store.

apart from that: you have missed the deadline (May I think...) so you need to contact your tax office to explain / ask for an extenstion (retroactively)

Oh bugger. I moved here in October last year... who do I have to ask for an extension?!?!?

@Jonnyboy - I have spoken to a few guys at work and some of them have just submitted tax claims for 2003 and got money back - so it doesn't seem to matter that much.

However, when dealing with German beamte I think it is always better to be on the safe side and write to your Finanzampt quoting your ETIN number (I got that from my employer at the end of 2004) and give them some vague excuses (in my case it was incompetence, ignorance and laziness).

@All - Thanks for the advice/help regarding my original question. I think Eric the Vicars advice is probably the most likely outcome and I would like to extend his oringial prayer to include Simon Jones' swift recovery and Shane Warne to break a finger during a freak smoking accident.

Ben

After sitting on our tax form for 4 months we recieved (or more correctly the Wife did as she is the sole wage earner in the family) stating that they were know going to forward it to the proper office

Ben, you in Frankfurt? If so, let me know who you end up using... I am (not really making much an effort, but it is time that I start) trying to find a steuerberater who will galdly let me make every semi-legitimate claim under the sun

And whoever said that they pay as much tax here as in the UK, is obviously married with children - all outrageously subsidised by my taxes!

Thanks all,
I remain your obedient servant blah blah blah

I shall add that to my prayers. God bless

what matters really though is, what you can spend in the end, isn't it?

So Cammy's part of the post

seems logical to me