Do I need an Aufenhaltsgenehmigung ?

Hello all, here goes with my first post. I have recently moved to a new town and registered with the einwohenermeldeamt. The problem is my Aufenhaltsurlaubnis has run out and they are now requesting that I apply for an Aufenhaltsgenehmigung. I have lived and worked full time (not self employed)here for a few years and pay tax social security etc. I have even bought a house, hence the move. Can anyone provide a link where it is clear that as an EU citizen I do not need an Aufenhaltsgenehmigung. Thanks John

YES YES YES.

You do need one. However as you have bought a house you "could" get an unlimited. However as you have let the last one run out it might be a problem.

But you do need one, and as you have worked here for a while I expect you know shirty the Beamten can be.

to be honest, I can't find any link, where it says definately that you dont need one. Somebody told me months ago, that you don't need any since 1.January 2005 anymore. But all I find is that it says you need at least a "Bescheinigung über das Aufenthaltsrecht". But this should be no problem.

But maybe somebody can give you a Link, where it definately says, that you dont need anything anymore. I would be glad for a link aswell since my bf is from England

No you dont. Assuming you come from another EU land you dont need an aufenthaltgenehmigung any more. I'll search the links again.

Thanks Hannah, i have just been looking at the toytownmunich site and there seems to be a bit of discussion there about the Aufenhaltsgenehmigung. I will simply plead ignorance and take along wage statements, health insurance, photos etc and apply for an unlimited permit. Thankfully the town where I now live is rural so there should be now long waiting around and hopefully a freindly beamte .
So off to the EMA i go.

good luck

Try this

"Das Aufenthaltsrecht in Deutschland wird durch das „Gesetz über die allgemeine Freizügigkeit von Unionsbürgern (FreizügG/EU)“ geregelt. Nach diesem Gesetz benötigt ein EU-Bürger künftig keine Aufenthaltserlaubnis mehr"

As an EU citizen you do not need one, though you may get a sheet of A4 (kind of Urkunde) from your local Ausländerbehörde, as I did, that says you are a foreigner living in Germany and tells you: your name, DoB, Passport Nr, Passport valid from/to.
Presumably, when my passport runs out again I'll have to inform them about my new passport number and I'll get another certificate to pin on the wall. Well, the Beamten have to do something to earn a crust.

Amazing that WE have to inform the Beamten about the applicable regulations applying in Europe in the year 2005.

Or how about doing a visa run to the Czech Republic and back!

All very quaint to my mind.

You will probably get lots of hassle at the Ausländeramt. I had the nerve to actually lose my Aufenthaltsgenehmigung and was really treated like a piece of shit by a Beamtin who had probably just left school. She tried threatening me with throwing me out of the country which I just laughed at and told her I couldn't care less if she did. She eventually gave me a new one which took her a whole 5 minutes to do with more threats about reporting me to the police etc. etc.
This thread has just reminded me that I have a look at the expiry date on mine. Guess what!! It expired last month. Am I now an illegal immigrant??? Will they deport me?? Is there life beyond the A40???

thanx Neilq. Still means if my bf's thing runs out in 2007 he still has to go to the EMA to get this "Bescheinigung". Somebody told me he had to do nothing, just let it run out. At least I did not listen to the ppl who said he can throw it away though it is still valid

The reason I had the link above was that I had an argument with the GE Moneybank for a loan. They wanted to see my aufenthaltsgenehmigung, I told them I didn't need one (even though I had one) cant remember the outcome though, I probably sent a copy in the end as it was too much pratting about getting them to understand that EU citizens dont need them anymore.

Thanks Neilg, the link is very informative, after just speaking to the beamtin on the phone, I'm just going to do what they want, because they are not making a fuss about my old aufenthaltsurlaubnis being nearly 3 years out of date. I have read a few threads on another board about people being fined for this.
Thanks to all for your quick and informative replies

My Aufenthaltsgenehmigung now says: Unbefristet, so I think I am in-definately!
I didn't have any problems getting it renewed at all, even after it had expired in October 2003 and I went back (after I noticed :$ ) in Feb. 2004.
As we live in the back-of-beyond, the novelty factor for the Beamte/Beamter to renew it seemed enough for them to bother!
It'll probably take a few more years for the actual 'new' rules (if any) to get into the more outer-lying districts!

You were lucky there that they didn't make you start from "square one" again!!

When I used to live in Berlin I also once lost my EEC (as it was called then) Aufenthaltserlaubnis card. Took a morning off work and went along to the Meldeamt für Ausländer which was located somewhere in Moabit. To my horror I found myself in a large cavernous hall, full of noisy people, a kind of reception centre for asylum seekers. Standing around, sitting on wooden benches. It reminded me of how Ellis Island in New York in the 19th century must have been. I think I was about the only white person there as well. You had to take a ticket and sit and wait, wait wait...

After waiting 15 minutes or so, I began to wonder.. This surely can`t be right, sitting here with all this riff-raff :-) Am I waiting in the right department.. Wandered around the corridors, closed office doors, couldnt find anyone around to help me, seemingly deserted. Not wanting to go back to the chaos of Ellis Island, with a 10 hour wait and an uncertain future, I decided to just open one of the doors at random and try my luck.

Opening the door, revealed a Beamte pouring water into a coffee machine. Looked up at me in surprise. I explained I had lost my "EEC-Pass", am I at the right place. The guy was very helpful and apologetic to my surprise: "Mein Gott nein, this is the Asylbewerberzentrale! Turns out the office for EU citizens was round the corner in another building, but of course being the german Beamten, they were now closed for the rest of the day, I would have to come back early the following morning.

After a two hour wait next day the Beamte sitting at a computer checked my details - containing my residence details for the last several years, the whole story was there, and entered an application for a replacement. Which couldnt be done right away. I had to make a further visit to another office in another district, where my previous 5 year permit was replaced by an unlimited stay permit without ceremony by a gruff, indifferent Berliner Schnauze type.

Isn't it just amazing how much bureaucracy there is? I mean every bloody Kreis has it's own group of people doing exactly the same job as the group of people in the next Kreis. And who pays for it? You and me, the taxpayers. I thought the Germans were efficient. Although if you look at the tax system, there's proof enough there that they're definutly (sic) not.

I generally find having my Aufenhaltserlaunis useful just for identification purposes. They accepted it to join a Video rental place and I use it whenever I go to pick up things at the post office.

Mine expires in 2006 although I recently received a letter saying I need to show them my new passport as my old one had expired. This show that they keep track of these things but I can bet I don't get a reminder for when it expires.

I got stopped on the Dutch /German border (they were checking everone entering Holland). I showed them my Aufenhaltserlaubnis and there was no problem.

You definitely don't need one if you're an EU citizen (although I HAD to get one cos there were too thick down at the Ausländerbehörde) they sent me a letter saying I should come down, so off I went wondering what they wanted from me, they told mine had run (it was only by a few days) and that I urgently need another one, i told them that was nonsense that as an EU Citizen I didn't need one, but they insisted I had to have one.

Well at least they gave an unlimited one...

Well I have consigned mine to File 13.

As an EU citizen you do not need, as of 01.01.2005, an Aufenthaltserlaubnis, no ifs and buts.

I would suggest anyone recieving a letter warning of run out of this outdated document to ignore it and take it as far as it goes, it may be a bit of stress but it would be amusing to get one up on the Beamten.

There's a link here:-

http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/nn_174390/I...n__Act__en.html

and here:-

http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/Internet/Co...EU_Citizens.pdf

Section 5 (1) says:

"EU citizens entitled to freedom of movement and their dependents who are
nationals of a member state of the European Union shall be issued a certificate
confirming the right of residence as standard procedure by the competent authority."

There was another part where it says EU citizens don't have to pay for any of this crap (well - they didn't say that but something along those lines) :-)

I must say this is news to me. When I was at the local Auslaenderbehoerde earlier this year, they were saying something about me not needing any documents any more...

Lassie and Fuchs, the problem is, if you just SAY you don't need one but can't prove it, this won't help much.
This certification thing is what comes along to me whereever I look. No matter which Amt or Behörde, it always says on the links that you need this thing.
If you can prove it wrong, then post a link please

@ Hannah

Will that do you?

http://www.duesseldorf.de/auslaenderamt/eu...eit/index.shtml


ps are you a British or German citizen, just curious to understand where you're coming from. As far as this Bescheinigung goes I have not as yet seen this but it is not an Aufenthaltserlaubnis just a confirmatory document.

i am german but my bf is english. So can we agree that you have to get this Bescheinigung then?
Loads of you made it sound that you dont need anything anymore, if I got this wrong, then sorry but to me it does not make any difference, wheather he has to go to EMA to get an Aufenthaltsgenehmigung or this Bescheinigung.
Somebody told me months ago, that my bf would not have to get anything anymore now and we actually were happy about this.

No I dont agree that I NEED this document, where did I say that? I merely said it is a confirmatory document which I have not as yet recieved and from reading the references to it, it is not my problem to get it more the problem of the authorities here to issue it. I have as yet not come across any circumstances where I have required any documents apart from my passport and I have recently moved from near Soltau to Bonn so had the whole palette of Behörden to deal with.

what did you get then when you moved here first? Are you working for a german firm?

I moved here as a civilian in 91 and had to get (as was the law here then) an Aufenthaltserlaubnis this was renewed several times until (I think) 2003 when I recieved an permanent Aufenthaltserlaubnis which I consigned to the bin on the 1st of January as since this time I no longer require one. This has been confirmed by several more switched on Behörden since then.

Edit to add: I have worked for German firms and the German Govt but now am registered as self employed here.

what had been confirmed? That you threw it away?


ah ok

the first time you prolly will go and get this "thing" is if you are trying to get employed by a german firm

That I no longer require an Aufenthaltserlaubnis.

I very much doubt it, what would this document have to do with gaining employment in an EU land, an EU Passport would suffice.

well Fuchs, if you dont need one of those Certificates and you dont want one, then congratulations.
But it really will not help ppl, when somebody requires it, if they throw their valid Aufenthaltserlaubnis away or refuse to go to the EMA to get this Certificate, before it runs out.
Some things are just annoying but if an employer won't give you any work without this thing, it sounds better and no big deal to me, just to get one.

No I dont as a British citizen, that is correct.


There is no such thing as a valid Aufenthaltserlaubnis for EU citizens in Germany.


There are such things as courts, if an employer does not employ an EU citizen purely because you do not possess an Aufenthaltserlaubnis then you will find he is more than likely breaking the law.

if you can afford to go to court then do it. Dont you see that there are ppl who seem that they cant even afford to pay for a passport or one of this ferken certificates?
It does not help to be just stubborn and fight on your right all time. Its hard enough to find a job nowadays so you think I'd advice my bf to go to court instead of going to the EMA and get this ferken paper for getting a decent paid job?

Hannah are you saying that an employer has demanded this "new" certificate or have they demanded an Aufenthaltserlaubnis?

What kind of work are you talking about? Gastarbeiter stuff? I work for a German company and certainly didn't have to show an Aufenthaltsgenehmigung to anyone. I was treated in exactly the same manner as my German colleagues.

@ Archie

That's been my experience aswell, a passport is normally all that is needed maybe some proof of address and possibly that "I've been good and haven't been nicked/caught" certificate too.

Gastarbeiter stuff?
If you mean cleaning jobs and low paid jobs, then yes. Those rip-off jobs to keep your nose over the water here. Those jobs which you do if you dont want to be unemployed when you come to Germany without a job to be with your girlfriend
And loads of Germans do this "Gastarbeiter stuff" now aswell by the way

@ Hannah

I've been there too my first job here was packing eggs in shift work at a factory where there was so much chicken shit dust in the air I was guaranteed a lung infection every month or so.

However I think you'll find that such employers are used to employing workers from outside the EU and they are acting out of ignorance rather than following the law. There is no need for a British citizen to possess an Aufenthaltserlaubnis in Germany.

i agree with you but what will this help if they insist on something?

but they are insisting on something that is no longer valid, all I can suggest is pointing this out to them maybe with hard copies of the relevant §§. If you however find that there is no way round it then by all means get this certificate (alls fair in love and war and getting a job) but if your boyfriend fails to be employed by any of these firms that have been inisting on some form of Aufenthaltsgenehmigung then it may be worthwhile (if not going to court) pointing certain organisations in their direction with the aim of re-educating them eg Ordnungsamt and Industrie u. Handelskammer as a start.

I really do wish you and your boyfriend all the best and hope it works out for you both, keep plugging away and dont let the bastards get you down.

oh thanx! My bf has a job. Pays the rent thanx

You're more than welcome glad to hear it's not as bad as I thought, BTW I'm going to try and get in touch with the Stadt in Bonn tomorrow and find out the relevance of these new certificates, let you know if anything interesting happens.

QUOTE: And loads of Germans do this "Gastarbeiter stuff" now aswell by the way.

Loads of Germans - and French and others - are now Gastarbeiters in the UK. Britain being the only country in Europe that is capable of offering full or near-full employment. How times have changed.

According to the British consulate (if this helps to clear things up):

http://www.britischebotschaft.de/en/consul...ing-working.pdf

Under 2. Registration:
"As of 1 January 2005 it is no longer necessary for British nationals to obtain a residence permit. Instead an 'Aufenhaltsberechtigung' will be issued, which is a document that simply states the right of residence. It will either be issued by the Einwohnermeldeamt upon above described registration or the Ausländerbehörde depending on your place of residence."

Although I get confused by all the different Aufenhalts...

Off-Topic: For 'Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Germany But Were Afraid to Ask':
You can download this 240+ pages (or get it sent to you for €2):
http://www.handbuch-deutschland.de/download_en.html

I already posted in the other Thread, before catching up on this one.

I think the following quote from the Hamburg site that Neilg(?) posted says it all:


After my local authority told me that I no longer needed an "Aufenthaltsgenehmigung" about ten years ago - and didn't offer me an unlimited version - I haven't done anything about it since. I've never had any problems, although I believe a couple of times I was asked for it, but when I explained I didn't need one, that was always accepted.

Aproximatley 3 years ago when I left the Army I was told that I didn't need an Authenthalterlaubnis by the Einwohnermeldeamt due to a new law that was coming in´to force. 4 months later they advised me that I needéd one. When I questioned it and said that I had been advised that under the new EU rules I didn't need one they said that this was correct however if stopped by the police without one they would expect to to see several items of documentation and that an Authenhalterlaubnis would make life a lot easier. I interpreted this to mean that by law it is not absolutely necessary for EU citizenens but it certainly saves a lot of grief if you have one.

Just got back from the pub. Hope this makes sense

I haven't a clue where mine even is ...

Stephen

Just called the "Einwohnermeldeamt" and they told me that Europeeans do not need them any more !! But if you want, you can get a "Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung" a bit of paper basically saying the same as the green document that you used to have to get..
Ive misplaced mine somewhere, but it's not relevant any more - wheyhey !!!

@Dusty, why would it make things easier if you had one ?? You can't actually get one any more.. and the info that is in there is not really and different to the info on you passport.

Stephen