ID cards versus Passport

We went to the Casino in Wiesbaden recently and were asked to show ID. Originally, they would only accept an ID card or Passport. We didn't have our passports with us, but luckily managed to get in using our driving licences which was an exception. Next time we should take our passports.

As I don't like carrying my passport around, does anyone know if its possible as a Brit to apply for a 'Personalausweis' / ID card ?

Would be much easier to carry around than the British passport.

Lisa

Putting on my pro-EU integration hat again: couldnt all EU member states introduce a standardised Euro-ID card for all their citizens, valid in all member countries, and equivalent to a passport?

Most EU States already have a standardised ID Card.

The ones who don't (correct me if I am wrong) are Ireland, the UK and Denmark.

The UK intend introducing them by around 2008.
If they do so, Ireland will most likely follow...

@chardonnay:

I had the same Idea, but ID cards will not be introduced until a few years yet. I sent them an email asking about it all, and it took them 3 weeks to send me an answer.
I never carry my passport around with me. Personally that is the reason why I had a new German driving license made up. Its small and legal - what more do you want ???

Stephen

How much did the new driving licence cost you, Stephen?

The Auswiess (indentiy Card) is just really the fist page of your passport, from what I've been reading the identiy Card that Tony Blair wants to introduce is a smart card that will contain all your lifes info.

In other words he's planning on wasting billions on a system that won't work.

I've started carry my passport with me, but I'd prefer an id card instead.

I cant see anything wrong with ID cards. I´m German and all my life I had an ID card. I think it´s a great idea. It works over here and it should work in the UK. Also it is a good way to identify illigal Immigrants.
Only thing that I dont agree with is the amount of personal data that the card should hold. German ones hold your name, date of birth, height, eye colour and address. That I find sufficiant enough.

Also the current price for a German Driving License down here is 38 Euros. But remember you have to hand in your UK license as it isn´t legal anymore to hold two Driving licenses.

I've got both. Is it really illegal? Then I've been blissfully ignorant of this up until now.

Probably is illegal, but I´ve had both for over 30years now.

It is illigal now. I not long ago have applied for a German License. Good thing about it was that I´m actually allowed to drive more different kind of vehicles through transfering my British over to German Licence. However when I went to pick the German License up I was told that I was to hand over my UK license first before they were going to hand over the German ones. I claimed that I had lost them and was told to get a police report copy of the reported loss and an "Avadavitt" from a Solicitor.
So right now I still drive about with my UK license...still under my old surname
I´m just so angry that I have to hand it over as I think that it is my propperty, I paid for them aswell as the german ones. Dont know what I´m going to do just yet. I guess I will get legal advice first before I part with the UK ones.

I think this new Law has come in with all the new EU laws...something like that anyway according to the Strassenverkehrsamt.

Driving Licence cost me 27 EUR.
took 7 Days

Me too, actually I've got two British ones because I genuinely lost mine once and after getting the replacement found it again!

Actually, as I understand it, the latest state of affairs is that driving licences from any EU country now have to be recognised in all EU countries and you no longer have to give up your British one for a German one after a year here.

As a result Polish and British driving schools are having boom times putting German nationals with very dubious residence qualifications through the (reputedly easier) national driving tests.

If you read the small print it is probably not yours, just like a british passport does not belong to the holder.
I gave mine up last year for a German license, and lost the right to drive minibuses! (Never driven one in my life though)

Neil

I always thought that it would be a good idea to have a "foreigners personalausweis" for exactly the same reason. When asked (in banks etc) I manage to get away with it by saying I am British, that (I believe) I am under no obligation to carry one, but have my (German) driving licence, usw. usw.

I would imagine that by becoming German I would get one .. but we have been through this before.

That`s the case with virtually all ID cards, license cards, membership cards, credit cards, even library tickets, the lot. If you read the small print they practically all have a clause stating that the card is not your property and must be surrendered on demand.

Hmm, youre right there, thinking about it, you pay a fortune for a passport, and it isn't even yours !

Stephen

Worse thing is having to send it as Eingeschriebene Post because you have to include your full birth certificate to Düsseldorf for a renewal. What do they need to see that for everytime?? If you look at the fineprint on your birth certificate it says that it is 'not proof of identity' so what good is it???. They saw it before anyway on my last renewal, they also get the expired passport, they have all my previous records, etc, etc... moan, moan..

Errrm, no you dont.

OK, you don't HAVE to but it's WISE to send it by recorded delivery. Improvement suggestion accepted.

Oops sorry, my mistake, I actually meant


No you don't

As to recorded delivery, I made sure I had that sorted, dread to think what happens when that goes missing in the post.

Actually I can't really complain. Last year when I got my sons passport sorted out, I had mine renewed @ the same time ( 1 year b4 due ) they accepted the reason that I would like to have both done at the same time and I had them back within 5 Days !!!

But it cost me a fortune !!!

2 Passports are enough to force me into bankrupcy !!!

btw: who do you get 2 countersign the Pictures ???

Stephen

A friendly Doc.

A german or english doc ??
I find it a little strange, because how are they going to know ??
Do they get in contact with the person ???

Stephen

I got a German doc to do it, speaks very good english though, so wouldn't have been a problem if they did contact him. The form leads you to believe that they do occasionally check up, maybe on a random basis, maybe not.
They have to give address/phone number in case they want to check up on them, docs tend not to answer the phone themselves so that would probably be a bit of a giveaway.

I recently renewed my passport but luckily I know a couple of German Teachers socially and one of them was kind enough to contersign my passport form. Maybe this is an option if you have had a child at school for a couple of years.

As for identification My Residence Permit (Aufenhaltserlaubnis) has always been accepted as my "identity card" so I do not travel around with my passport. As far as I am aware it is illegal to not carry around prove of identification here in germany but I do not know what legally constitutes "proof of identity".

Ah, that old chestnut...

@neilq

Oh yes you do. See note 12 and top of following page after note 12.

exaclty, that is what I was going to quote too:

Documents
are not normally needed if you are surrendering a recently
expired, unrestricted British passport showing your national
status as British citizen, British Dependent/Overseas
Territories citizen, British Overseas citizen, British subject or
British protected person and all other details are the same

Yes, I saw that too but 'not normally' isn't exactly specific whereas it specifically states in the accompanying notes that you must supply your full birth certificate and it does not identify any exceptions.

We could argue about the wording but if you want to be safe, and not have to send off some additional documents afterwards, it's just as easy to send everything in one envelope.

Indeed, we could argue the wording all day, I sent mine without my birth certificate exactly because of that paragraph, and got the thing back ok. Of course if you prefer to be safe you can send everything, then they have no reason to send anything in later which of course would cost more.

As stated previously I recently renewed my passport. Having temporarily mislaid by birth certificate and needing the passport in a hurry (it had been expired for over 6months and I wanted to go back to the UK) I simply didn't put it in the envelop. The result. A new passport, no trouble but then maybe I was lucky.

I agree with you and Neilq - it shouldn't and probably isn't necessary to include for a renewal only - but 'not normally' still leaves room for interpretation. They should be more positive and just get rid of the 'normally' if they don't need to see it or remove that whole sentence if they do. It only leads to uncertainty the way it is worded at the moment.

Actually reading the wording again, I actually sent a non expired passport, not a recently expired passport, so like you say, they do need to sort out the wording. You can get away with more than the form seems to say.

I have renewed my passport three times in Germany and have never sent my birth certificate with the application. I haven´t had a problem with a renewal up to now.

You don't! I just renewed my passport a few months ago and if you're replacing an expiring passport (which you do have to send in and are therefore still stuck with sending it "per Einschreiben"), you do not need to send in your birth certificate.

Oops, sorry. Still catching up on the day's Threads and I see plenty of people have already corrected this!

Got this reply to my enquiry on July 20th...

Dear Mr XXXXXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail of 20 July about obtaining an ID card.

Currently, the UK does not operate an identity cards scheme. However, the Government is committed to proceeding with the introduction of an Identity Cards Scheme that may become compulsory in time. An Identity Cards Bill was introduced to Parliament on 25 May. The identity card being proposed will provide every person, legally resident in this country, including foreign nationals, with an easy and secure way of demonstrating their right to be here and of asserting their place in the community. The introduction of the first identity cards will, on current plans, start from 2008.

We will be researching the requirements for cardholder needs which will include understanding how best to communicate with our target audiences. We want to make it easy and convenient for people to apply for cards and public awareness campaigns will be developed to ensure people understand when they will be required to register.

More information about identity cards is also available on http://www.identitycards.gov.uk.

I am grateful for the time you have taken to enquire about the Identity Cards Scheme.

Yours sincerely
C.Millar

FYIO

Stephen

So it would mean ex-pats would not get an identity card?

And it sounds like it will be a real nightmare to keep up-to-date. Given that the current UK average is for people to move home every 6 years... the civil service is about to become an even larger job-creator.

I like the bits about target audience, cardholder needs, asserting one`s place in the community... all marketing PR mumbo jumbo to me.. But they love all that in the UK!

Basically its an email for the broad public. They did not answer any of the questions I asked. They obviously have just got a standard mumbo jumbo letter basically telling you to F. O. and waste your time on something completely different.
I would have expected to have recieved a little info on what they will look like, which information they will contain, and basically Information about the bloody things.

But there you go. It doesnt matter which government you talk to, the little man is always the looser...

Stephen

Stephen

In the link there is a lot of detail. Problem for "us" expats is that we do not seem to qualify to receive one. They appear to be for UK residents only.

that's wishful thinking, there is probably nobody who could answer any of those questions yet. Although I suspect there are several working parties tackling these issues and currently drafting pages of recommendations as we speak (type?)

hmmmm. Maybe right there.
All I wanted was to know if us expats will get one aswell ...
because carrying my passport around all the time is a pain in the backside...

Stephen