House rules on grilling / BBQ-ing - Germany

Problem: we have a residents' meeting coming up in September, and one of the points on the itinery is:

Änderung der Hausordnung - Grillverbot bzw. rechtzeitige Ankündigung des Grillens

I believe legally there is a certain amount of notice you have to give before bbqing, and I think there's even a maximum no. of times you're actually allowed to bbq (once every 4 weeks or something ridiculous like that).

Does anyone know any more?

I haven't had a chance (nor have I the inclination while catching up after the weekend!) to research it, but...

I believe it is widely accepted that not more than once a month is allowed. However, I believe that legally, in blocks of flats, where other people are directly affected, if the situation is not regulated by the "Hausordnung", theoretically grilling outdoors is not allowed at all.

If nobody else comes up with a concrete answer before Thursday, bump this back up to remind me and I can check my books and files from my time as a "Verwalter" and get back to you.

Having said that, I reckon it's only good manners to inform your neighbours well in advance, best of all, invite them!

I remember hearing that you can grill as often as you want legally, it was only tenant by-laws that restricted it

Look it up RMA

Will do, but as you can imagine, all my reference stuff is at home, so it'll have to wait till the weekend. Slight disclaimer, I haven't updated my stuff since I gave up the job in '99, but I don't remember having heard of any changes in this area since then - unlike the changes in "Kündigungsfrist" for tenants.

I think it also depends on what type of grill you are using, ie. electric grill - charcoal grill..

just found this,

http://www.immobilienscout24.de/de/umziehe...atgdmcr0161.jsp

and this so there are two different verdicts on it

http://www.mieterschutzbund-berlin.de/6_6.html

That Mieterschutzbund link is interesting BB. Some of the decisions I already knew, but I would never have guessed that there were so many different decisions running around.

I think what it sums up to is:

1) Check what the "Hausordnung" has to say about the matter

2) Even if there's nothing mentioned there then it would be still be sensible to either invite the neighbours, or at least warn them a week or two in advance (if possible), so that if they want they can make other arrangements.

I agree with you RMA. I thought as much to the different decisions because there is no law about grilling. Does not come into the BGB..

BGB... Das Burgergrillenbuch?

:doh:

Have a look here

http://www.verbraucher-urteile.de/miet/grillencontent.html

sorry I am not going to translate.

BUT:-

we BarBQ almost every weekend when the weather is nice of course. The old lady next to us has only asked us not to throw meat over the fence to the dog that is all. I mean we just cook and eat, I mean no parties every weekend.

However if we have something bigger planned we always invite next door neighbours if they don't come not my problem

Don't you think it's amazing/sad that people have the time and energy to take things like this court?

Thanks for the replies.

I don't think it's anyone in our house who's complained - I suspect it's The Moany Old Couple two houses down who's interested in getting it banned (or controlled).

I heard that they also complained about the couple living in the flat underneath them - apparantly, their cooking smells were wafting up out of the kitchen window and into The Moany Old Couple's flat wanted to make them keep their window shut when cooking "smelly" food... should also perhaps point out that the couple below are foreign...hmm...

I agree that we should all make sure we're not causing unnecessary smoke or making too much noise late into the night etc etc but do we really need to make a rule about it? Isn't it really just common sense?

Yes, both amazing and sad
And very, very annoying !!!

Well, when you're paying all that money for "Rechtschutzversicherung" you want to make sure you get something back for it, after all!

It is amazing and sad.

I had one guy above me in our old flat complain about our BarBQ. He said it smelt bad and there was too much smoke. I told him to close his window then. He ended up spitting on my grill. I ended up throwing a bucket of water up at him, to which he phoned up his ex colleagues the cops... He was of his head. There was two of them knocked on my door and just barged in. They started on at me to which I told them to shut up, It was my flat and i would talk not them otherwise they coud go. Veela came home to find me shouting at two coppers.. afterwards whenever i put the BarBQ on i set my video camera up to film it

Anyway the guy upstairs ended up punching a female neighbour, well when his mates came he didnt open the door and they threatened to kick it in to which he then opened it. There was a total of 6 coppers storm into his flat. He ended getting kicked out. Two weeks later i handed in my notice too...

I laughed my head off.

We laugh but I get the impression that this attitude is not uncommon here.

To revive an old topic... my upstairs neighbor has twice this year complained about grilling. Only when I have something very fatty (e.g. Nackensteaks) that makes a lot of smoke. The other 6-8 times she said nothing, but it was relatively "clean" stuff then like 1-2 small beef steaks.

From these laws it looks like I *should* have some kind of agreement to soothe the neighbor, and notify in advance, otherwise risk complaints and/or police. I plan to make a grill hood with fan / filters and maybe pump the "cleaned" air through my apartment to dilute it. But I hope there is no major change in Munich since these links from 2005?

By the way, I did check my rental contract and Hausordnung. Nothing is stated about grills at all. And, my grill is gas, meaning the only smoke/smell is from the food being cooked (no 1.5h of nasty wood smoke). Grrr...