Being denied the vote in Germany

Luke, this is not the topic here but I wrote something about it in the "help they're coming" thread in Miscellaneous and Random Chat

bows

Interesting article by the editor of the German issue of the online expats magazine Expatica on "Why expats in Germany should have the vote"...

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_articl...d+have+the+vote

Seems quite a few people feel strongly on this issue!

You don't say?!

Ha survived the weekend even after being woken up at stupid o clock saturday morning by Herr Ratzingers swarm of helicopters. OK I see some of the questions I posed have not been answered, shame really as they seem to be supporting statements for those who take an opposing view so as a reminder:

@ Alice

What responsibilities am I avoiding that I should be denied the vote?
BTW I see having the vote as responsibility not as a right!

@ Ami-I-B


But how many of these are permanent residents?

I would like to see the answers to these questions otherwise I cant take the statements made all too seriously.

Anyway have a nice week everyone, keep smiling. F66

As I wrote above, it is irrelevent whether there is 1, 1,000 or 1,000,000 of us (and frankly I have better things to do than search for the exact numbers).

To be honest, I would have thought this discussion would have ended with your post over in the 'Would you give up you passport' thread. You have posted that it is now possible for Brits in Germany to get duel citizenship. I'm assuming that with that come the vote (if not, then I am switching to your side of this argument). As we say in the States, if you want to vote 'it's time to put up or shut up' and get your duel citizenship.

There are 96,600 of us, according to the Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge, although that does not specify permanent residents or not.

By the way, only 95,900 from the UK.

but it was you not I that came out with "exact" figures (of US citizens in Berlin) I merely asked how many were permanent residents you failed to respond if you cant back up your opinions then they remain just that, opinions. As for the dual citizenship question, as I have already stated if I could afford it I would but I cant (as is often the case with "rights" sometimes you have to be in a position to buy them).

I would be interested in a comparison of costs for a German citizen acquiring joint German/UK citizenship and the opposite case. If I get very bored I shall do a bit of searching, I have however the feeling that the prices here are unreasonably high.

It costs €255 for an adult to get German citizenship (assuming they qualify). No idea yet about UK citizenship.

UK citizenship (normal cost) is GBP 218 ... so roughly €320

OK thanks so they are comparable, no problems with that then.

I think you will find the costs for Einbürgerung or Naturalization and a German getting a passport are two different things. (I went to the Rathaus a couple of years ago as I was thinking seriously about obtaining German citizenship, I can't recall what the costs were but they were painful) However, what's all this talk about Dual Nationality... The Germans simply don't want you to have it. If you take out German nationality you have to sign a declaration giving up your birth Nationality.

3. Vermeidung von Mehrstaatigkeit

Ich bin bereit, die bisherige(n) Staatsangehörigkeit(en) aufzugeben und verpflichten(n) mich/uns nach schriftlicher Zusicherung der Einbürgerung, die erforderlichen Schritte zu unternehmen...

so they want written proof you have actually done just that.

colonialgirl

They were costs for acquiring citizenship.
€255 in Germany
€320 in UK

@ Colonialgirl

The German authorities dont like it but with those states within Europe where it is possible for a German citizen to have dual nationality, UK included, they have to respond in kind. I get the feeling it was forced on them by Brussels.

Colonialgirl, you are Australian, aren't you?

Sorry, got it slightly askew! Although I had a figure floating around my head of €1,000 as there are 4 of us to do it.

Yes, Hannah I am Australian.

What irritates me (okay, slightly off topic here but..) we have been here for well over 20 years. I have said this before but if we want to (or I am thinking of the kids) if they want to travel or work or study outside Germany for more than 6 months they have to "ask" permsission or they may even be prevented from doing so because they would lose their permanent residency. That I am very unhappy about hence no freedom of movement. We are classed as 3rd country nationals and although there are agreements granting continuity of residency for 3rd country nationals in other EU countries this has to be passed by national governments (the UK by the way is not party to this agreement).

I do believe it is the same in the States with the Green Card status.

The other thing about being denied the vote in Germany is, who do you turn to when you have a problem that normally should/could be brought to the attention of your local politician or EU member? We recently tried this out and wrote both to our local SPD member and EU member (SPD) and we are still waiting for their responses!

I'm not sure its any better for people who can vote. Welcome to a country without a first-past-the-post political system of single member constituencies.

Even with the first and second vote, with party lists there is very little motivation for MPs to pay any attention whatsoever to their constituents. I live in a Wahlkreis that has been held by the same SPD member for 15 years, but will probably be won by Gysi this time around. My GF is wondering which one of them to vote for, as no other candidate will clear 5%. My response: doesn't make the slightest bit of difference since they are both going to get in on the party list, anyway.

Lots of posters by various extreme right wing parties have suddenly appeared in my neighbourhood (not an especial hotbed for that kind of thing, as far as Im aware, its a perfectly respectable middle class district). One of them says "Schnauze Voll? Lügner abstrafen!".

Although I have no truck with these neo-nazis (or plain nazis, come to that - why are they always referred to as neo- ?) I have to say I do agree with the idea of Lügner abstrafen...

Though on the other hand if we did abstrafen all the Lügner, theyd have to convert the Bundestag into a prison.

The Marxist-Leninist Party has covered our neighbourood with posters. Odd, since they are not even on the ballot in our Wahlkreis.

Does anyone else find it strange that candidate pictures are always on the posters? In the US we learn in school that you can tell if you live in a dictatorship if there are pictures of politicians everywhere (I have never seen a political poster with a picture on it in the states).

QUOTE Does anyone else find it strange that candidate pictures are always on the posters? In the US we learn in school that you can tell if you live in a dictatorship if there are pictures of politicians everywhere (I have never seen a political poster with a picture on it in the states).

Yes, thats always struck me as well here. Very bland and unimaginative. I think its down to basic lack of imagination and poor advertising ability compared to the UK. I wonder they dont just post their CVs along with the pictures as well. Or how about a copy of their Personalausweis..

They don't look that inspiring either, they could just as well be canditates for Amway salesperson of the year!

And Angie's picture has been really touched-up on the computer ...

if I had to touch Angie up, I would only do it on a computer !!! :doh:

If she were "pretty", people would say that people voted for her only for her looks.

Her politics should be what interest you!

On a german tv docu there was a spot where Angie Merkel`s features were "morphed" into those of Maggie Thatcher. Now thats the sort of mug-shot poster the CDU should be putting up!

I agree, Bombi, there has been a lot of irrelevant discussion about her appearence that wouldn't happen if she were a man. I think she's been treated pretty poorly, even if I don't really like her politics.

A friend of mine from NZ tells me that when they had their first woman v. woman election, all of a sudden political discussion became focused on hairstyles and make up (although I'm not sure what else you would talk about in a NZ election).

And that coming from a man, thanks! :$

I heard once that she must be really intelligent, clever, driven, motivated etc etc ... because she couldn't have slept to the top.

If I could vote, she would get mine!

@maaph, no comment!

Guido would get mine... :$

now that's most unlike you! What are you not commenting on - her obvious skills or my vote?

Anyone tried wahlomat.de yet? Just checked and it is now up and running. Maybe new thread, who knows?

@maaph, both!

You didn't comment on me liking Guido though did you!

Didn't work for me. What is it?

www.wahlomat.de .. an online questionnaire to help voters see on 30 top issues which party they should vote for.

For me no surprise result!!!

I actually find myself sometimes agreeing with Guido too, hence no comment from me .. however, that is something I don't like to tell too many people.

It can't be too easy for men to say that they like Guido...

How did I know that you would come back with that, lowering the tone yet again, when I was trying to have a serious conversation about people we are not allowed to vote for.

Actually, we were flicking around on the German TV channels the other night (trying to find something to watch) and stumbled over Guido delivering his speech. I found it quite entertaining and and thought it was quite good. If you could rely on him to deliver the things he was talking about in his speech he might get my vote - if I had one!!

My son would certainly not vote for the CDU as they are always trying to ban computer games and blame them for the demise of the youth in this country...